Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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mmgaballah said:
there is also the cult of Morr who would have a great deal of motivation for persecuting if not out right exterminating what is exactly a cult of vampire worshipers who traffic in ghouls and dead bodies
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Although I think you overplay the zealotry on both sides, I agree that the Morrites putting them under cutting scrutiny probably means they don't want to stick around here.
 
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Shine said:
Although I think you overplay the zealotry on both sides, I agree that the Morrites putting them under cutting scrutiny probbaly means they don't want to stick around here.
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I am not overplaying the zealotry , the GM straight up said that the Strigany outright worship vampires in private and that should empire at large ever find out they won't stop at just persecuting them but outright attempts at extermination

think of it this way , the Skaven are enemies of the empire , the cult of the Yellow Fang worship the Skaven , as you can guess the empire's response to that is to try and wipe the cult out whenever they can

now the vampires are enemies of the empire , the Strigany worship vampires , the obvious result of this is that the empire would try to wipe them out for much the same reasons and grounds as the Yellow Fang
 
Actually, since we're talking about my favourite by far (and naturally the objectively coolest) VC sub faction, the Strigoi Ghoul Kings, I wonder if anyone here can help me answer a couple things.

How intelligent are ghouls in this AU? Has anyone ever reasoned with them, or even worked in a human-ghoul microsociety? How functional is their society, or is it all just some bestial horde with a vampire perched atop? Can they even theoretically redeem their broken and monstrous nature via martyrdom? Where do their souls go- straight to Nagash?

I have many questions about the ghouls, that nobody ever answered, despite the fact that they're one of the few living and intelligent members of the VC's undead hordes.

(I'll ever be disappointed that you can't actually make a competitive Strigoi Ghoul King list, because while crypt ghouls are excellent infantry, and crypt horrors good anti-elite mooks, that's… about it really. Not enough variety, even including the monsters and war beasts.)

Edit: I just remembered Arthur killed a few of those elite ghouls way back when, so that answers those bits.
 
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Catpetter1981 said:
FYI, the term "Gypsy" is generally viewed as a slur. The community's term for themselves is Roma / Romani.
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It's in a disney movie (Hunchback of Notre Dame).
In a song no less.
And it's a slur now? The times are a changing.:o
Catpetter1981 said:
The fact that the creators / writers of Warhammer Fantasy would include a clear analogue of the Romani (who remain very actively persecuted and discriminated against IRL in present day) and proceed to characterise them as "They roam the Empire in caravan trains or river barges primarily on the River Reik, making money where they can and stealing when they can't" raises unpleasant questions about the motivations of said creators / writers, in my opinion. (Not including torroar within these implications because torroar is writing a fanfic on a world that others created.)
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Do you also have a problem with how they depict
Norscans/Vikings/ the Swedish-Danish?
How about Dawi/Jews?
Asur/British colonialism
Orcs/ Soccer Hooligans?
Empire/Holy Roman Empire?
Sigmar/Literally hammer Jesus?
Brettonia/ CHIVALRY FRANCE! complete with actual peasants who have no rights?
Witch hunters/Spanish Inquisition! (which was one of the worst abuses in power in recorded history)

Did you forget to notice these as well?

:confused:
 
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Just realized that we could use barrels of various alcohols in whole city as ammo for barrel throwers if we want, really fire up wherever the dark elves are unloading on to make it as hazardous as possible.
 
This is still a Quest thread and not a general thread, but I feel obliged to respond to "If you don't at the same time point out or raise an objection to every instance of bigotry within a work of media, you lose the right to object to any single instance within it" and "If it was used in a Disney piece of media, it must be OK" (Seriously? Pointing to Disney of all things as an indicator of progressivism and acceptability?) as they really, really irk me. I promise to confine my rebuttal to this single post and to make no further posts on these topics.

Cheap Orange Knofe said:
It's in a disney movie (Hunchback of Notre Dame).
In a song no less.
And it's a slur now? The times are a changing.:o
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Disney productions are hardly a model of progressivity.

In recent times Disney has added racism content warnings at the beginning of their older movies (Disney updates content warning for racism in classic films), but many of these movies were viewed as racist not just in our current "SJW" era but even back then at their time of release.

Dumbo had the awful "Jim Crow" scene, Peter Pan referred to indigenous Americans as "redskins", and Song of the South was so racist that Disney never released it on video or DVD in the US.


Cheap Orange Knofe brought up the usage of "Gypsy" in Hunchback of Notre Dame and laments that "And it's a slur now? The times are a changing".

First of all, Hunchback of Notre Dame was released in 1996, fully twenty-six years ago by now. Yes, times certainly do "a changing" over 26 years.

Second, in 1971 the Romani Congress had voted to reject the use of "Gypsy" due to the negative connotations of the word (Romani people - Wikipedia), so "Gypsy" was a slur at least as early as 1971 and remained so by 1996.


(Once again - Seriously? "If it's used in Disney it must be OK?")


Do you also have a problem with how they depict
Norscans/Vikings/ the Swedish-Danish?
How about Dawi/Jews?
Asur/British colonialism
Orcs/ Soccer Hooligans?
Empire/Holy Roman Empire?
Sigmar/Literally hammer Jesus?
Brettonia/ CHIVALRY FRANCE! complete with actual peasants who have no rights?
Witch hunters/Spanish Inquisition! (which was one of the worst abuses in power in recorded history)

Did you forget to notice these as well?

:confused:
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First off, I disagree with the notion that if you don't at the same time point out or raise an objection to every instance of bigotry within a work of media, you lose the right to object to any single instance within it.

Nevertheless, I will respond to the analogues you have brought up.

Norscans / Vikings / the Swedish-Danish - The Vikings as a culture / polity ended in 1066 with the defeat of King Harald of Norway, almost 1,000 years ago. Their modern-day descendants in the Scandinavian nations are not generally the subjects of bigotry and persecution (unlike e.g. the Roma).

Dawi / Jews - How are the Warhammer Fantasy Dawi an analogue to Jews?

Asur / British colonialism - The British colonialists were the oppressors, not the oppressed. Imperialism and imperialists should be mocked and satirised.

Orcs / Soccer Hooligans - Similarly, soccer hooligans are not a group of people that are "unfairly discriminated against and persecuted".

Empire / Holy Roman Empire - The Holy Roman Empire no longer exists, and (as far as I am aware) there are currently no groups of people who are being persecuted for being descendants of subjects of the Holy Roman Empire.

Sigmar / Literally hammer Jesus - What is your critique / objection for this one?

Witch hunters / Spanish Inquisition - Witch Hunters are generally portrayed within the Warhammer Fantasy literature as being crazed fanatics and going to unjust extremes and hurting innocent people, which is a fair analogue-portrayal of the Inquisition.
 
As I was re-reading the lore of the ogre, those newborn without a paunch is often sacrificed to the great maw.
How did Ostland ogres deal with their paunchless descendents?
 
RBokenKSUTmob said:
As I was re-reading the lore of the ogre, those newborn without a paunch is often sacrificed to the great maw.
How did Ostland ogres deal with their paunchless descendents?
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They likely just raise them as they would any other Ogre. Culturally they're probably considered disabled but they aren't likely any physically weaker beyond being considered unfortunate for not having their status singifying and gut armoring paunch.
 
Catpetter1981 said:
How are the Warhammer Fantasy Dawi an analogue to Jews?
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Generally, dwarves have always been slightly associated with Jews due to carrying he stereotype of being extremely materialistic, excessively diligent, and being small, somewhat hunched, and having large noses.
No, I don't understand the last part either.
However, the Dawi in Warhammer fantasy are, due to their inherently really alien nature despite looking aesthetically like fantasy dwarves, difficult to associate with anything, at least as far as I can tell. Certainly, they like their gold- but there are several things far more important to any sane Dwarf.

I never really understood the whole Asur in relation to British Imperialism thing either. My main issue with that is, if it is true, that it's too benevolent- the British Empire mostly existed to subjugate and exploit the world, while the Asur, AFAIK, never kept human vassals nor were they ever economically exploitative, and although they're extraordinarily arrogant, somewhat racist and possessing of some hilariously assumptive and even brutal foreign policies, have also died in the tens of thousands fanatically fighting Literal Evil, and stopped both Chaos and their malicious, actually horrifically evil counterparts from destroying the world, singlehandedly and on several occasions. The Global Superpower of the flawed forces of Good is something no Empire has ever really been, nor likely ever will be.

Sigmar is definitely based on Catholicism, but man I wish my fellow Catholics were half as Based.

And finally, I think the Spanish Inquisition* gets an unfair historical reputation. Although they were certainly flawed, people seem to paint them as particularly cruel for their time, which, considering their time was the European Renaissance… not really? Unless you inherently have an issue with theocrats throwing around their temporal power, the Spanish Inquisition in particular wasn't anything special, and came up with some pretty good ideas. (I suspect their bad reputation may be from secular authorities getting upset that the priests were getting arrogant, and smearing the idea once the Inquisition collapsed in another bout of religious strife.)

*Your mileage with other Inquisitions may vary significantly.
 
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torroar said:
Death Pass Watch Report 2326: Ten thousand fearsome looking orcs appeared from the wastes of the Dark Lands this year and made their way through Death Pass. With Black Crag and Karak Eight Peaks under the complete and total control of the greenskins there was little that could be done to halt the passage of this mighty band. For they most certainly did look mighty. Clad in unsettlingly uniform armor and bearing weapons that normal orcs would struggle to lift, what was strangest about these orcs was the manner in which they marched – near silently. The fact that the rangers watching Death Pass had to work to keep watch of them was also of major concern. They perform patrols, they build watch towers, they have organized firepits instead of just blazing bonfires in every direction, but strangest of all….they did not quarrel amongst one another. A plainly humungous orc – literally heard to be bellowing his name as Boss Blacktusk – leads them, and the moment one fell out of line he was there cuffing them by ear. This grand host made entirely of orcs – not a single grot or goblins to be seen – made its way from the Dark Lands and directly into the Bonelands. There…they disappeared from sight into those swirling wastes and crags. This is extremely worrisome, and the garrisons at Barak Varr and Karak Azul are to be put on watch.
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1. Is Boss Blacktusk dead? Also, at this time the Karak Eight Peaks was under skaven control, or was it greenskin control, cause multiple times later it is said skaven have been in control of Karak eight Peaks for a long time? The statement of complete and total control reads weirdly to me if the dawi knew the skaven had possession of K8P and the greenskins in the badlands were building up the numbers at Ekrund.

torroar said:
[Middle Year] Vampires Rise In Sylvania, Are Cut Down Immediately: Further news comes from Sylvania this year, and it is both concerning and pleasing to hear. Even now, the great fires scorching the vast mass graves of corpses being unearthed throughout the land continue to burn. By the end of this year, it has been confirmed after a large conference between census-takers, Amethyst Wizards up to and including the Matriarch of the Amethyst College – the Draken and her two odd students rumored to be of noble blood – as well as various Priests of Morr, Taal, Sigmar, Ulric, and Rhya who were also working with numerous Witch Hunters who viciously interrogated the population for every single scrap of potential truth behind burial areas or places that might hold more undead or vampires that it can finally be said that Sylvania is actually starting to be cleansed. This is because every single village, every keep, every castle, every holding large and small on public record and those taken from other sources discovered in Sylvania, is now officially slated to have been turned over and examined down to the many crypts beneath though doing so is not going to be the fastest work ever. Where, as was suspected, many vampires remained in hiding or were in that strange deathless state where they are as dust but with blood and a ritual can be revived. Said vampires were likely quite surprised to find such an eclectic force there just as they woke up. As before, all of these vampires, many of whom proudly proclaimed themselves to be Von Carsteins before being rather quickly turned to little dead piles of ash, had their remains disposed of in the secret and anonymous manner of the Order of the Garden in order to prevent brainless fools or more vampires from reviving their brethren. As before, swamps continue to be drained, land forcibly tilled unto exhaustion in the search of any potential mass graves that could be utilized by a necromantic force. Special credit for personally bringing down over a dozen powerful vampires and multiple necromancers in close combat goes to Regina Leitdorf, daughter of the Count of Averland this year.
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torroar said:
The peasant-born soldiers who first began the rumor couldn't really pronounce 'Magister' or 'Magistrix' very well. Went with the word they could finagle.
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2. I so want the rumor mill calling Draken the Matriarch of the Amethyst College to be a running gag. The phrasing is indeed a rumor mill fault, but still I thought it was worth a mention in this list.

torroar said:
Skaven Fleet Destroyed At Open Sea: Far faster than anyone anticipated, the vessels of Barak Varr found themselves tested in battle against one of our people's most hated enemies – the skaven. At open sea, several dozen leagues west of the pirate held Sartosa, a series of indeterminate vessels appeared in the middle of a nightly patrol and assaulted a series of Ironclads. Flying no known manling flag, it was not until the ships got nearly close enough to board was their nature revealed. Though the battle was won, casualties were not low, and more than that the fact that the skaven managed to sail out a fleet that looked – at reasonable distance – to appear as a manling fleet before they fully revealed themselves is disconcerting. How many ships could the skaven move about the oceans like this without anyone noticing until it was too late? Efforts are ongoing as to what to do about this, though no one has any specific solutions as of yet. As to where this disguised skaven fleet was going or why, even less is known. At the least some heart can be taken in that the whole of said fleet was brought low.
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torroar said:
Five New Ironclads Complete: Glory to Karaz Ankor! Invigorated by the many victories won in these past few years and the many Grudges struck out by High King Grudgebearer, the engineers of Barak Varr have completed a simply incredible amount of work years ahead of schedule. Working day and night, barely eating and more incredibly barely even drinking, the engineers have exhausted themselves in their creation of wonders. As was promised by the King of Barak Varr and his hold, five new Ironclads joined the fleet of the dwarves, the better to fight against any potential naval skaven threat. Though these mighty ships were slated to be complete five years from now it is said that the dwarves of Barak Varr worked like dawi possessed – their Throng called and furiously marching about the perimeter of the Hold in pre-emptive patrols, killing bandits, greenskins, and other beasts for miles around in the Border Princes returning blood soaked order to those lands. There is a quickness and smoothness to their work that – when questioned – can only be answered by these workers as just feeling…vigorous. As if weight on their shoulders they'd carried all their lives had disappeared. It has been over a decade since the skaven were last sighted in large enough numbers in the seas to be a major threat but the fact of the matter is that because they managed such in the past enough to cause the troubles in the Bonelands that building up our forces to prepare just in case is far better than doing nothing and acting like a manling when the skaven inevitably show up again – as they always do. These new Ironclads immediately set to patrolling the coast north and south of the hold as well as the Gulf itself, with an eye especially for the devious creations of the furred foe.
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3. Inaccurate information reported. The year of "Skaven Fleet Destroyed At Open Sea" occurs the year prior to "Five New Ironclads Complete". Yeah, the problem is the skaven had just that last year shown themselves to be a threat. While the rumor reports Skaven haven't been a threat to the fleet of the dawi for a decade! This is problematic as it's dawi delivering misinformation on skaven. Feels out of character for dawi to leave out the trouble from the last year, that was acknowledged to have cost the fleet casualties.

torroar said:
The Pious Purges Nuln: Before the end of this year, not many recalled the Sybarites, but with the events in Nuln, many remember far more than they ever wished to. For it was this horribly depraved cult of Slaanesh which was one of Nuln's worst shames, in the times before the Era of Three Emperors. So wide-scale and massive in number, they once counted amongst their number almost all the major leadership positions of Nuln's nobility, military, and even portions of its priests and religious officials. For five centuries they were fully known, and such was the scandal that in the end, Emperor Boris Goldgather relocated to Altdorf over the accursed city. It was assumed that they had died out in the meantime, for who would want to consider that the height of Imperial power was so thoroughly tainted? The Pious had no such delusions, and has apparently set the Witch Hunters and Wizards of the Colleges against this organization for many years, steadily and carefully gathering information on them. How it must have rankled for his city to be so tainted! But now, no longer. Thousands of men and women were pulled from every rank and stature across the city, from gutter gangs and even many prominent noble men and women. Farmers and hunters at market were abruptly surrounded by teams of templars of Sigmar, while the cult's leaders were personally either slain or captured by a stunning twenty Grey Wizards, including the College's Patriarch, a wizard personally taught by Teclis himself. Of these was, most horrifyingly, Count Albert Pfeifraucher's own wife! Worse, Countess Katrine managed to summon forth a daemon from the body of her husband, who she had been manipulating behind the scenes for an unknown length of time. Revealing herself as a powerful cult Magi, she escaped the initial attempt to arrest her only to be confronted by the Emperor himself on the streets of Nuln, both with their own retinues of followers. Having briefly returned to Nuln to personally visit the wounded knights and soldiery from many a battle in recent years – having been delivered to the care of many a Shallyan hospice in Nuln. The details of the battle are not wholly known, much magic was being thrown about by both the Countess and the Imperial Wizards, and chaos was rampant. Was is known is that, from nowhere, Princess Anna von Hohenzollern, accompanied by a small group of mercenaries, involved themselves, cutting through flanked cultists like wheat, before the Princess of Ostland herself slammed an axe into the Countess' back with enough strength for the blade to emerge from her target's chest. This immobilized the screeching mutant long enough for her to be slain with surety by a single blow of Ghal Maraz. Elsewhere, a full three hundred Witch Hunters, accompanied by Warrior Priests, Imperial Wizards, and a five hundred Knights Panther, brought the light to the infamous mythical – revealed as reality – Night Market of Nuln, a generationally preserved mutant society, which rested in tunnels beneath the sewers of the city. While there were certainly many casualties from this, success was near total, with only a few cultists and mutants escaping the city that are even now being pursued by witch hunters. As for Princess Hohenzollern, she deigned to only remain for the single day it took for her – and others – to be honored by the Emperor and other Imperial leaders present for their actions in the day. Why she did not stay longer than that single day despite numerous entreaties from grateful nobility is unknown, but she was spotted being terribly irritable and snappish before her party departed the city themselves. In the meantime, a great issue has been raised now as to who, precisely, should rule Nuln. A number of buildings burned down, and repairs will have to be made to the former home of the slain Countess, but more difficult will be the restructuring to the cities society. Numerous nobles, community leaders, orphanage matrons, and multiple captains of the city guard were of the Sybarites, and unknown numbers of lesser citizenry whose identities could not be certain due to mutations and mutilations. For now, Magnus has chosen to remain in Nuln to assist in this, while his brother Gunthar shall be taking over command of the remaining military efforts in Sylvania, something none present contested considering the younger Bildhofen's sheer competence, leadership, and personal ability.
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4. The grey college's Patriarch does good work. It is a rumor mill, yet considering how the Grey College Matriarch shared that they have been approached by people for things, the chance of the rumor mill getting the gender of the Grey College Matriarch/Patriarch wrong at this point in time is possible, but I have doubts. Not a big deal really, just something to note.

torroar said:
[Early Year] The Host Breaks: It is most unusual that the denizens of Chaos are given praise, but this can be excused as Estalian ignorance and foolishness. For far too long, the Estalians were distant and uncaring of the threat of Chaos, to their detriment. They never did police themselves well enough, and it only shows in the weakness of their people, falling to Chaos so easily. Yet, it was one of these fallen who may have delivered Estalia from its total doom. During a battle between the Estalians who fell to Khorne and those who remained yet pure, eye-witnesses say that Lucrezia herself took to the field, bearing shield and spear, and managed to push her way forward to come into direct confrontation with her brother. None know what was said between the two siblings, one already monstrously swollen with the dark blessings of the Ruinous Powers, but what is known is what occurred next. The forces under Lorenzo turned away from the United Army of Estalia – with the mercenary army of Prince Acciai – and marched away. They marched away from the fight, and then straight into the territory held by the Decadent Host most strongly along the peninsula. The carnage unleashed there was naught for men's eyes, and yet scouts pursued, cautiously, to observe a road of skulls shorn from bodies and blood spilt in rivers, forged through the lands of the Decadent Host. Despite possessing a fraction of the Host's forces, and apparently whole bands of beastmen who were already battling the forces of Sigvald being present, the Estalian's under Lorenzo forged through, until reaching an unholy castle being built out of unmentionable materials. There, atop a pile of corpses large enough to reach the battlements, did Lorenzo assault Sigvald personally. The fight progressed deep into that damned keep, but in the end, Lorenzo fell, but not before striking off a full length of Sigvald's hair. The effect was immediate, sending the Lord of Chaos into an insane spiraled fit, before fleeing in the aftermath. He was sighted but once, raving furiously, as he entered the camp of Lucrezia Vega, slaughtering all in his path, nearly killing Lucrezia herself before a series of cannon shots managed to chip his mirror shield. Enraged further, driven to even greater insanity, he departed into the wilderness once more while the shattered remains of a group of beastmen attacked in the chaos. Anarchy has fallen upon the Decadent Host, and the United Army of Estalia has taken full advantage, corralling and cutting down those who have desecrated their lands so horrendously. As for the last Vega, she remains with the healers, heavily wounded and nearly slaughtered by Sigvald's contemptuous, haphazard, and utterly distracted attack on the camp.
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5. Whatever happened to Sigvald since 2329 IC (2344-2329 is 15 years of silence)?

torroar said:
Vineyards Of Lost Solland Restored: One of the Emperor's personal works has come to fruition, in the land of his fathers. Part of the Empire long thought lost has begun to be restored with a hefty loan brought about from families that once counted themselves as nobles of Solland, in the form of the Bildhofen Vineyards. While the province of Solland is long-lost and absorbed by Wissenland, these nobles wish to see some form of their home remembered, and so have restored many a fallow vineyard for wine which once belonged to numerous families exterminated by Gorbad Ironclaw. The wine being produced is called Remembrance, a solemn thing, but name aside it is quite the fine wine indeed! The new wine has already flooded southern Imperial markets, and is making its way along the river routes as quickly they can. That the Emperor himself benefits from this is not surprising, but so too does the Empire with the restoration of a small bit lost to the greenskins. Many former Solland nobility look upon this with considerable favor. Might the province of Solland be restored sometime in the future? Surely not…? +50 Overall Trade Income Across River-Connected Empire Provinces. (This Includes Ostland)
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6. Remembrance is not specified in "Alcohols Available In Ostland" informational tab.

torroar said:
The Vultures Of Zandri: They say that there is a god worshipped by the dead, itself a part of a dead pantheon, deep in the sands of decrepit Nehekhara. A decayed land, ruled by the Tomb Kings. In the distant past, the warriors of Morr attempted to bring the unliving kingdoms to the dust they should be, but in truth failed despite many successes in their crusade. From the forlorn port-city of Zandri, where none but the dead dare walk, came a terrible fleet crewed by the undead. Their banners and sails were painted with liquid gold, their banners thick sheets of the precious metal, all stamped and colored in that of a horrific vast vulture. And they brought ruin to the southern coastlands of the Old World. The blood-slick streets of Sartosa were practically drowned in the stuff, the plunder of a hundred and more pirate crews dragged onto the ships. Coastal settlements in the peninsula of the Border Princes were wiped out entirely. But worst, in the opinions of some, was Magritta, where the great majority of the Knights of Magritta remained until this year. The battle was fierce, the eternal lust for war and gold burning fiercely yet in the empty rib-cages of the Tomb King's servants. In the end, the battle was won by the living, but just barely. The Grandmaster Pietro Barbarossa offered to fight a duel to end a brutal stalemate, and was met in battle by a horrific abomination which identified itself as King Amenemhetum of Zandri. While Pietro lost, soul torn from his body and apparently devoured by a horrible casket which rose upon a swirling tide of bone, the Tomb King was said to laugh a laugh which chilled the hearts of all before declaring that the heroism displayed was enough to stay his incomparable wrath, the plunder secured enough…for now. The city was left in effective ruins, sacked, its riches stolen and many of its people taken, the undead fleet practically groaning under the weight of their plunder. All, apparently, in the glory of the Nehekharan vulture god. Damned undead! At the least, the most holy parts of Myrmidia's true home remained intact, albeit as terrible cost.
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7. The Sartosa question. Sartosa sounds like it was destroyed here. Only for sartosans to play a role years later in the Holders of the Shore stuff, around 6ish years later, they were also healthy enough to put up a fight against 'The Vengeful Vineyard' the next year. I am confused at Sartosa's recovery speed.

torroar said:
Bordeleaux Brigands Of The Sea: A group of criminal outlaws have performed a vicious heist upon the docks of Bordeleaux, stealing away with a full squadron of four Bretonnian Buccaneer vessels! Apparently rising up against the inhuman conditions put upon them by their 'noble' captains, they slaughtered all of those who had beaten them in the galley and on top of the decks. Some with kitchen knives, others with stolen blades, and still others with their bare fists. Sir Louis, a noble son of Bordeleaux, was still living when they escaped over the horizon, but his corpse hung limp upon the prow by the time they sailed into Sartosa, dead not from beatings but from exposure to Manann's rage. So too were the ships, which now resemble some sort of awful greenskin contraption than anything else, all four ships lashed together into one abominable pile of wood. As is the nature of that despicable island, they welcomed these new cutthroats with open arms – after a huge bout of violence, of course. They say that the only reason these newest brigands of the sea survived at all is their leader, a man who bears some measure of sorcerous power or another. The name of their horrible amalgam of a ship leaves something to be desired, of course. Who ever heard of a crew calling their ship 'The Vengeful Vineyard'?
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8. Whatever happened to 'The Vengeful Vineyard' guys?

torroar said:
Grom Gone: Karak Grom is gone. Over five thousand dwarfs, dead! Early this year, rangers on patrol returned to find their hold, small to be sure but historic in its own way, to have been destroyed from within! Based on grief-filled reports by those same rangers, only a few dozen survivors of a once prosperous and properly stubborn hold, is that the skaven of Fester Pike swarmed them from beneath and above. For the paths in the Underway, coupled with the scattered hidden journals left behind by those desperate to give some sign as to their disappearance, points to this place. Of King and Queen Thunderclap, there is no sign, for the skaven came not just to sack, but to eat! There was little left behind but cracked open bones, their marrow sucked out! Of the great riches within Karak Grom, vaults filled with gold, silver, and treasures mined and crafted for over two thousand years, there is little left. The damned skaven made off with almost all of it! Damn them! A mighty and monstrous grudge has been laid onto Fester Pike! A dozen more! Vengeance must be had! Prince Thunderclap, and his five hundred brethren, are all that remain of the hold, and yet have marched as one out to claim that vengeance, as best they can. They departed the Great Throng the moment the news reached them.
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9. Whatever hapened to Prince Thunderclap, and his five hundred brethren from Karak Grom?

torroar said:
The Ravings Of Cyrston von Danling: Rumors abound within the Jade College this year on a text penned by Master Wizard Cyrston von Danling who undertook a journey west across the ocean to examine the strange flora and fauna of Lustria with more suitable eyes than those without magic could manage. Amongst this text, called In the Garden of the Gods' he clearly got waylaid by the mysteries of the Lizardmen. While the Slann certainly do exist, the culture and thought processes of the Lizadmen remain unknown even to the great instructor Teclis. There are plenty of examinations of plant life and many animals that the Amber Brotherhood would no doubt like to examine, there is one part that sticks out. At one point, during a raid on Port Reaver by the Lizardmen, he claims he witnessed a saurus warrior somehow accept a cannon strike that was somehow dissolved right before its body. He purports that it was a God of the Lizardmen that did it, when warding and shielding spells are far more likely. Clearly, Von Danling has spent too long in the sun and muck. Worse, the man simply sent out his text while endeavoring to investigate further, and now has disappeared utterly.
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10. Whatever happened to Cyrston von Danling?

torroar said:
Dreadnought Revealed!: It has been many years in construction. Revised again and again. Metals changed, boilers changed, placement and alteration coming in rapid goes. But finally, it is complete. This year, from the mighty port of Barak Varr comes the latest of the dreadnoughts. From the mind of Yilna Cragbrow, comes a behemoth of steel and steam. Larger than any previous dreadnought before it, the monstrosity bears a Throng's worth of cannons, the armor more than two feet thick in many places, and possesses the most advanced set of steam boilers known. Such is its size that a second set of thickly armored and painstakingly maintained paddle wheels were added in, on top of the somewhat more standard regular set of side-paddles and the larger rear paddle. It has been named Rinrizkulha, or Queen Death in the parlance of manlings, and is already committed to a thorough patrolling of the peninsula's waters and a bit beyond. This crowning achievement is one worthy of not just Clan Cragbrow, but of King Grundadrakk who praised the efforts of Master Engineer Yilna. To the point of a marriage resulting between Yilna and the King's heir, Prince Skalf. No doubt Clan Cragbrow is pleased indeed to be bound in blood to the bloodline of King Grundadrakk.
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Note - Dreadnought named Rinrizkulha made by Yilna Cragbrow with 18 years of work, exists among the Barak Varr fleet.

Note2 - Since I am listing stuff that lost focus in the rumor mils. Whatever hapened to the Gold Magister debates with the Guilde of Alchemie? (Turn 30 Rumor Mill - Altdorf Alchemical Angers)
 
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Look, it's fine. As soon as the Strigoi fully marshal their strength, and reclaim Strigos, everything will be great again. We can reinstate the great Necromancer Vampire Kings, and we'll live in our great necromantic nation and anyone who messes with us will drown in their own blood as our Strigoi Masters bite their throats out. The way things are meant to be.

----+----

Also, yes, Strigany are blatant Romani/Gypsy knockoffs, like just about every culture in WH is a knockoff vaguely or blatantly of IRL ones. And yes, Gypsy is largely considered a slur. So we'll try not to be using it here, okay? Now. As I mentioned, there are Strigany who go full in into the vampire worship and what not, but not all of them. They are a constantly moving people who are no doubt reasonably diverse depending on which band you're talking about. Yes, some are like the River Strigany who sabotaged the that ship discussed last page, but some really are just travellers making the best of their lives that they can. It's just that also it's appealing to have immortal god creatures ruling over and protecting you (it has not yet been fully emphasized how a great many Strigoi made the leap from 'bow before your king to bow before your GOD WE ARE GOD AND GODS ARE WE'.

Also I literally just woke up and now have to go do that thing I do for the next few hours plus a thing after that which is unusual for my schedule so my ability for longer form and more complex answers is going to be unavailable for quite some time today.

You may re-request longer form answers on ghoul stuff and the rumor mill stuff, which I promise to answer more comprehensively, later. As in I'll need a minimum of 5-6 hours from posting this before I can do so, so don't expect much until then.

So please let's not dive into anything absurd while I'm effectively crippled in my ability to speak/type on my phone?
 
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Of course; you're not obligated to answer our lore squabbling.
I just find this thread a really reliable source of Old World factoids, but the questions aren't really important.
 
Rule 2 and 3: Don’t Be Hateful and Be Civil, or "If a QM or group of users ask you to stop using what is considered to be a slur, then you should stop instead of making reasons on why it's not bad to use."
Well torroar managed to articulate what I was going for. Just gonna leave this here despite not being well written.
Catpetter1981 said:
This is still a Quest thread and not a general thread, but I feel obliged to respond to "If you don't at the same time point out or raise an objection to every instance of bigotry within a work of media, you lose the right to object to any single instance within it" and "If it was used in a Disney piece of media, it must be OK" (Seriously? Pointing to Disney of all things as an indicator of progressivism and acceptability?) as they really, really irk me. I promise to confine my rebuttal to this single post and to make no further posts on these topics.
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Fuck off. This is a warhammer thread and I wasn't the one who suddenly accused the creators of the edgy metal fantasy game of being racist.
It's not bigotry. Its 90's edgy metal over emphasis on the
Catpetter1981 said:
First of all, Hunchback of Notre Dame was released in 1996, fully twenty-six years ago by now. Yes, times certainly do "a changing" over 26 years.

Second, in 1971 the Romani Congress had voted to reject the use of "Gypsy" due to the negative connotations of the word (Romani people - Wikipedia), so "Gypsy" was a slur at least as early as 1971 and remained so by 1996.


(Once again - Seriously? "If it's used in Disney it must be OK?")
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The first half of your oh so indignant rant I just ignored because it added nothing to the discussion.
So let us address the pertinent points of info.

Yes. 1996. A full 11 years before 2007 which warhammer 2nd Edition was released and the Strigani were introduced.
2022-2007= 15 years. So its still closer to that time when people who don't live in europe proper could say "gypsy" and not automatically mean
"Thieves, Con artists, and other undesirables."
When it was at worst american/foreign insensitivity rather than an automatic attempt to put the good Romani people back into their place as the scum of society.

IT IS A PRODUCT OF THE TIME.
Catpetter1981 said:
First off, I disagree with the notion that if you don't at the same time point out or raise an objection to every instance of bigotry within a work of media, you lose the right to object to any single instance within it.

Nevertheless, I will respond to the analogues you have brought up.

Norscans / Vikings / the Swedish-Danish - The Vikings as a culture / polity ended in 1066 with the defeat of King Harald of Norway, almost 1,000 years ago. Their modern-day descendants in the Scandinavian nations are not generally the subjects of bigotry and persecution (unlike e.g. the Roma).
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And the Romani of today are not the same people being parodied in WHFB now are they?
These examples are all of course there to show you that you are complaining about a parodied version of a people just as each and every single one of these other examples are.

The Strigani are NOT the Romani.
The Norscans, the Cathayans, the Asur, the Dawi, the LIZARDMEN.
For all their use of similar fashion or stereotypical props are not the same people who are subject to racial prejudice and bigotry in our world.

Warhammer is just for fun. Stop looking for "OMGRACISM"cause you don't have to look deep to find it in everything.
Catpetter1981 said:
Dawi / Jews - How are the Warhammer Fantasy Dawi an analogue to Jews?
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... Answered by Shine.

At least the Strigani are recognizably Romani.
The jews became a race of short angry men with an obsession for gold,grudges, and the "good old days."
As well as a long list of depressive/suicidal/Obsessive habits/symptoms scaled towards its entire society and culture?

Hmm... Half-assed effort to mirror "Zionism"?
Catpetter1981 said:
Asur / British colonialism - The British colonialists were the oppressors, not the oppressed. Imperialism and imperialists should be mocked and satirised.
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Asur/Duchii basically represent the age of colonialism with all its backstabby politics and exploitative policies that screwed over people around the world. Places like my country. And for all the positive things they have done. They have a longer list of atrocities and out right thefts.

And you can mock and call out its flaws. But you cannot deny it's role in connecting the world into one big networked system. For all those that were killed or valuables that were taxed and outright stolen. The world we have now is because this happened and the spread of western civilization.

Just like the Asur/Druchii. Yes. They saved the world and basically owned a huge chunk of it. But it was also their fault why things went to shit
Catpetter1981 said:
Orcs / Soccer Hooligans - Similarly, soccer hooligans are not a group of people that are "unfairly discriminated against and persecuted".
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Yes. But like everyone else on this list they have been exaggerated and parodied into what is basically a caricature.
Catpetter1981 said:
Empire / Holy Roman Empire - The Holy Roman Empire no longer exists, and (as far as I am aware) there are currently no groups of people who are being persecuted for being descendants of subjects of the Holy Roman Empire.
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They are also basically Nazi Germany with all its wacky tanks, xenophobia, human centrism and low level racism...
yes even to dwarves.
It's a mishmash not a 1 to 1 equivalence. They are also like Saudi Arabia.
Catpetter1981 said:
Sigmar / Literally hammer Jesus - What is your critique / objection for this one?
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Because if you really want to bring a group of angry people (if I really wanted to) find significant and concerning aesthetic similarities with my lord and savior.
Including the fact that they have/had organizations killing people in their name.
But guess what? I don't because he isn't Jesus and
Catpetter1981 said:
Witch hunters / Spanish Inquisition - Witch Hunters are generally portrayed within the Warhammer Fantasy literature as being crazed fanatics and going to unjust extremes and hurting innocent people, which is a fair analogue-portrayal of the Inquisition.
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They also have good reason to be crazy paranoid in universe. Why is this important? Its because unlike
And like the rest of the examples here the depiction in WHFB is a parody.
iggyfan said:
Isn't the Drizzt knock off suppose to dual wield scimitars?
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It's too vague. And It might be a trap.
However.. If he ends up friends with a dwarf, a Norscan(repentant), A woman adopted by aforementioned dwarf , or somehow ends up reclaiming a dwarf property/mine, please let us know.

If he ends up a follower of Rhya/Taal and/or apprenticed to a ranger then that seals it.
It would be hilarious if he were to apprentice to an Ogre ranger. Too much fun.
 
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A thought occurred.
@torroar recently talked about that whole stick with Druchii abducting Asur children to turn them into Druchii, enslave them or whatnot. If the Asur got a Druchii child, say a boy, and taught him magic, would said boy count for that whole prophecy surrounding Malekith? I think it was something about being bested by a male Druchii sorcerer. Or would the child count as an Asur?
 
Czes said:
A thought occurred.
@torroar recently talked about that whole stick with Druchii abducting Asur children to turn them into Druchii, enslave them or whatnot. If the Asur got a Druchii child, say a boy, and taught him magic, would said boy count for that whole prophecy surrounding Malekith? I think it was something about being bested by a male Druchii sorcerer. Or would the child count as an Asur?
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Malekith's so precious prophecy never, ever, ever, said anything about his prophecized killer being a Drucchi. He just assumed so because he thought only Drucchi mattered on this world. Heck, it's not even certain this prophecy is about killing Malekith in the first place.

If it is indeed about him, then my money is on Nagash, frustrated firstborn son of his father, and fraking creator of necromancy (taught by Drucchi spellcasters for extra irony). Unless... Which one is born first, Teclis or Tyrion (for the love of whatver, don't take this last part seriously)?

Edit: here is the text for it, fresh off the wiki. It has its own page on it: "And lo, he shall rule with a dark hand and his shadow shall touch upon every land. Steel will be his skin and fire will be his blood, in hatred will he conquer all before him. No blade forged of Man, Dwarf or Elf shall endure him fear. Though will it come to pass that the firstborn son of noble blood shall rise to power. The child will be learned in the darkest arts and he will raise an army of terrible beasts. Thus will the Dark King fall, slain by neither blade nor arrow but by a sorcerous power of darkest magic and so shall his body be consumed in the flames and for all eternity burn."
 
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