Question though, would a new kind of crossbow be built in small numbers for specialists or made for the crossbowmen in our armies?
Most likely since more complicated, at least at first, the new crossbows would be kept mostly for specialists like Witch Hunters and the like. Normal crossbows still work good for army sized units, but main advantage for multi shot crossbows work best for specialists and missions where smaller numbers of them working.
 
He knows that they know their job is to fight the Dark powers, throwing themselves against them if needed. Beastmen, greenskins, skaven, Chaos....the druchii aren't special in being dangerous.
Again, they are special, in the kind of danger they represent. Only skaven have remotely the same capability to pick out VIPs and kill them gruesomely in the dead of the night, and Frederick Jr isn't nearly as cunning or strong enough to see that off. That fact that he's probably going to be a leader of a small group only exacerbates the fact, since his identity as a Hollherzhen would be near impossible to conceal. If he goes to Salkatern I think that it's even odds if he covers himself in glory or is crippled/ killed by assassins and magic, depending on his level of Warhammer Hero Plot Armour, which is a fair reason for any father try and keep him at home despite his wishes.

I just also worry that it may not work and he sneaks along anyways, in which case his odds of survival drop through the floor.
 
Since we got drunk engineers I feel like even if they make crossbows improvments their focus should become some other project that the crossbows gave them the idea for, maybe something like a Legolas :

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6-UotZevrs

You forgot some links. Joerg Sprave from the Slingshot Channel is great.
I would love to see his invention sprout in Ostland.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcDP9jN_FFQ

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m3QK2W0oms

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLHy1qR_GS0
todsworkshop.com

Instant Legolas Bow

Joerg Sprave from the Slingshot Channel sent me one of his "Instant Legolas" arrow feeding magazine system for longbows. I have shot the weapon and now my task is to reinterpret it and remake it in a way that our medieval ancestors could have made it, but that is for the next films; this one is...
 
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You forgot some links. Joerg Sprave from the Slingshot Channel is great.
I would love to see his invention sprout in Ostland.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcDP9jN_FFQ

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m3QK2W0oms
todsworkshop.com

Instant Legolas Bow

Joerg Sprave from the Slingshot Channel sent me one of his "Instant Legolas" arrow feeding magazine system for longbows. I have shot the weapon and now my task is to reinterpret it and remake it in a way that our medieval ancestors could have made it, but that is for the next films; this one is...

Are you sure that it's able to be made with the current tech level Ostland is at?

Then the question is will that be for all Archers or a small number of specialist archers?
 
Again, they are special, in the kind of danger they represent. Only skaven have remotely the same capability to pick out VIPs and kill them gruesomely in the dead of the night, and Frederick Jr isn't nearly as cunning or strong enough to see that off. That fact that he's probably going to be a leader of a small group only exacerbates the fact, since his identity as a Hollherzhen would be near impossible to conceal. If he goes to Salkatern I think that it's even odds if he covers himself in glory or is crippled/ killed by assassins and magic, depending on his level of Warhammer Hero Plot Armour, which is a fair reason for any father try and keep him at home despite his wishes.

I just also worry that it may not work and he sneaks along anyways, in which case his odds of survival drop through the floor.

It's pretty decent odds for any of the Hohenzollerns to be targeted by druchii that could take them out. That's just the way of the world. Frederick and the other adults all recognize that and fight anyway. They wouldn't shield Frederick Jr. from his own duties for such a reason.
 
Are you sure that it's able to be made with the current tech level Ostland is at?

Then the question is will that be for all Archers or a small number of specialist archers?
If you watched the video's you would know it would be something they could of built with their technology. Their is a modern version, called the Fenris Bow Magazine, based off of the original Instant Legolas, and their is Tods version which is a Historical/Medieval one.

gogun.co

Fenris Bow Magazine

Originally called "The Instant Legolas" this arrow magazine enables a fast & precise repeating action, suitable for most* compound bows. The Fenris is simultaneously an: Arrow quiver (capacity of 5 arrows) Bow release with thumb trigger Pump action repeating system Revolutionary aiming device...

It's a magazine, you attach to a Longbow, so it would be silly to issue them as a unit standard until their is a industry that can manufacture them for the army.

Maybe issue them to a few guards, sell them as a novelty, and as the skill with it increases start to implement units who use them. You would keep your crossbow units, handgunner units, longbow units, you would just form a few longbow units with the added magazine.

It would most likely be a useful thing for sieges, where you have cover to shoot from.
It would also be useful for assassin's as the tool allows one to output a lot of arrows relatively quickly in a short period of time, but like a crossbow, takes longer to reload then a traditional longbow, due to loading the magazine with arrows.
 
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Is it more practical to give these out than, say, crossbows or handguns, though?
What does the range look like, and penetrating power? How easy are they to make and maintain?
Just because we could do something doesn't make it wise.

It's pretty decent odds for any of the Hohenzollerns to be targeted by druchii that could take them out.
While true, his odds of assassination go up enormously if he leaves Wulfenburg, full of Hollerzhens, grey wizards and far away from the Black Arcs, to go actively fight at the Black Arcs in unwarded Salkaterns as one of five Hollerzhens on the field. (Discounting the ogre, because you'd need to be mad to try and assassinate Urgdug given the alternative, non superhumanly resilient targets.)

They wouldn't shield Frederick Jr. from his own duties for such a reason.
We don't stop our family members from doing dangerous jobs, but I am fairly confident none of those jobs so far have been so dangerous at such a young age, at the beginning of his career. Get some seasoning versus enemies who aren't so adept at assassinations first- a Gor is not comparable to a Khainite assassin.
 
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Is it more practical to give these out than, say, crossbows or handguns, though?
What does the range look like, and penetrating power? How easy are they to make and maintain?
Just because we could do something doesn't make it wise.


While true, his odds of assassination go up enormously if he leaves Wulfenburg, full of Hollerzhens, grey wizards and far away from the Black Arcs, to go actively fight at the Black Arcs in unwarded Salkaterns as one of five Hollerzhens on the field. (Discounting the ogre, because you'd need to be mad to try and assassinate Urgdug given the alternative, non superhumanly resilient targets.)


We don't stop our family members from doing dangerous jobs, but I am fairly confident none of those jobs so far have been so dangerous at such a young age, at the beginning of his career. Get some seasoning versus enemies who aren't so adept at assassinations first- a Gor is not comparable to a Khainite assassin.
It's a magazine for a longbow, not a new weapon. It simply allows you to shoot rapidly, without reaching for a arrow to place on a string. You shoot, Draw, Shoot, Draw, Shoot, Draw, Shoot, Draw Shoot, then reload. This magazine would help less trained, slow archers speed shoot. It would not effect their accuracy, or power, or draw speed. It's like using a 5rnd stripper clip for a Mosin vs loading a round after every shot.

If you wanted a higher rate of fire, increase the size of the magazine, this will take longer to reload, so traditional longbows still give you a relatively consistent rate of fire, the magazine increases the speed and volume of a volley by 5x, but takes longer to reload.

This is not a crossbow, or a rapid fire crossbow, it's a magazine for a long bow.
You can remove it, or add it to any existing longbow, so if the manufacturing process is refined, you could have it as an optional attachment to your longbows.

The Magazine is field strippable, made from wood, bone, antler, and doesn't use modern science or require modern science. A engineer inventing this would probably be overkill, as the Ostland school of engineering for all it's drinking is quite advanced.

Craftsmen understand materials, physics, gravity, friction, they might not have the words or the science, but it did not stop Syracuse from building Siege Engines to knock down massive limestone walls, it didn't stop them from building moving towers to fire down on the enemy, and even hook onto the enemy walls.
 
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Heh, can you imagine an ogre sized automatic bow? Still, be fun if drunk science did unlock that crazy idea.

Still want to see ogre pistols just to see how effective that'd be.
 
1. The Cathayan Dragons don't necessarily cling to that sort of behavior. Other dragons hide their hoards in caves, holes, etc. as big piles of gold and what not. The Dragons of the Far East have far more glamorous hoards. Perhaps you have heard...of Grand Cathay? I don't mean that as a joke, either. As I've repeatedly detailed throughout the interludes featuring her, An is intensely connected and protective of the people of Grand Cathay. She knows exact numbers for how many died during this event, or that event, the lifestories of her descendants with incredible detail, viciously defends them, treats attacks on them as attacks on herself, is utterly outraged that anyone would besmirch them, and so on. An's Hoard is literally Grand Cathay, at least from her perspective. Wei-jin, the Capital, is the Crown Jewel of Grand Cathay, and so on, yes? Their wealth are in their vast cities, their paved roads, and yes, in a few massive vaults here and there dotted throughout the land. There is, technically, a Royal Vault for each of the Dynasties, in their territories. But overall, An considers the nation her hoard, to be protected and grown, for instance. Yi also considered Grand Cathay his hoard, and was outraged that it was being stolen from him, etc. There's gold lust, sure, but unlike a lot of dragons who are huddling their wealth in caves, the dragons of the Far East are just in different situations.
Also, if they really want to sleep on a bed of precious metals (because I'm sure every dragon has that particular dream/goal on some level ;) )... Well, that can totally be arranged, albeit it's considerably more practical in human form.
 
Is it more practical to give these out than, say, crossbows or handguns, though?
What does the range look like, and penetrating power? How easy are they to make and maintain?
Just because we could do something doesn't make it wise.


While true, his odds of assassination go up enormously if he leaves Wulfenburg, full of Hollerzhens, grey wizards and far away from the Black Arcs, to go actively fight at the Black Arcs in unwarded Salkaterns as one of five Hollerzhens on the field. (Discounting the ogre, because you'd need to be mad to try and assassinate Urgdug given the alternative, non superhumanly resilient targets.)


We don't stop our family members from doing dangerous jobs, but I am fairly confident none of those jobs so far have been so dangerous at such a young age, at the beginning of his career. Get some seasoning versus enemies who aren't so adept at assassinations first- a Gor is not comparable to a Khainite assassin.

Arthur marched to fight hordes of undead and vampires in Sylvania. Check his kill list for a hint of what he faced there. That was a year younger and with less skill to start with.

That's a different kind of danger, but no less deadly and don't mistake it for such.

So there's no basis for the idea that this is some circumstance of an unprecedented level (thus justifying some special consideration for that reason)of danger relative to the age/experience level of the person in question.
 
Arthur marched to fight hordes of undead and vampires in Sylvania. Check his kill list for a hint of what he faced there. That was a year younger and with less skill to start with.
Arthur is a Morrite priest. An Anointed one at that. That makes him substantially more capable against Undead.
 
That's a different kind of danger, but no less deadly and don't mistake it for such.
The argument still stands though.
-In the Sylvania campaign, the balance of favour was significantly higher in the Empire's favour.
-Vampire Counts do sometimes use assassins, but not on the same magnitude as skaven, let alone the superhuman immortals who've made it an act of worship.
-Arthur would be an extremely low priority target- killing him would minimally hinder the Ordertide. By virtue of the family name, Frederick will probably be in the top 10 opportunity targets once the Dark Elves figure it out, unless they also realise that we hopefully don't plan on giving them an inch if they do take him hostage… and resultantly torture him to death.

So it was less deadly. Nobody builds up skill by purposefully dropping the trainee into the meat grinder where they're a priority target. Even then, I trust Arthur to protect his son from any vampire assassin short of a 2nd or 3rd gen, but not a Khainite who's been practicing the art since before Sigmar was alive.
 
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Still want to see ogre pistols just to see how effective that'd be.

There already is, the regular blunderbusses / rifles.

Tw 3 had maneater pistols basically wield those in one hand.

But as to the crossbow, I suspect we wont get much use since we know that from the ships, since its the quality of the materials that adds to it.

Admittedly, having the steampunk van helsing crossbow weapon would be lit AF.
 
I think one of the best ways to play off leaving Freddy Jr. behind is as a guard to protect the rest of the family that's staying. Like the herd of literal children. He would be able to serve as a last line of defense, but also as a familiar face to keep the herd from being too upset by what's going on.

Alternatively he could be there as an assistant for Magnus, possibly even learn something from him concerning Magnus' command of Ostland while we're up on the coast.
 
I think one of the best ways to play off leaving Freddy Jr. behind is as a guard to protect the rest of the family that's staying. Like the herd of literal children. He would be able to serve as a last line of defense, but also as a familiar face to keep the herd from being too upset by what's going on.

Alternatively he could be there as an assistant for Magnus, possibly even learn something from him concerning Magnus' command of Ostland while we're up on the coast.
Both these are really good reasons, yeah. Ideally Freddy Jr would have at least 20 in fighting ability before we send him out on a major campaign, let alone one where the enemy is actively searching out his family.

On another note, since so far the dark elves are sending out young and relatively inexperienced assassins now I am kinda worried how hard we need to push them before they start sending out the veterans that apparently always succeed. More and more glad we got the Grey Wizards when we did despite the price.

Still, ideally we make the whole attack so unprofitable before it reaches that point.
 
Ideally Freddy Jr would have at least 20 in fighting ability before we send him out on a major campaign, let alone one where the enemy is actively searching out his family.

I disagree with this. Frederick would have had a martial score of 21, maybe 22 around the first Salkalten campaign, which is a bit of an outlier because his base martial was 19. Magnus with just his base skill is 17, and with his base traits alone props him above your suggested minimum in time for Karak Ungor, and his performance still suffered in the beginning. Arthur's base martial was 13, and until he finished his campaign in Sylvania he'd have a total of two boosts to his martial. +1 for being tall, +1 for being the High Priest of the Garden for a total of 15. Freddy Jr is already at 17 compared to his father at an equivalent time period. Ortrud already has 21 martial despite still being a child, and Natasha herself only recently broke 21 in the aftermath of Lovely Lourelorn. There's nothing wrong with paying attention to the numbers, but there is more to the quest than the numbers. (Furthermore I will admit that it's hard to tell what traits the characters had at different points in the story, and so these numbers are estimates.)

Edit: (One more additional point as I finish up, a lot of the martial boosting traits are gained from fighting battles and surviving wars. Arthur's "Harsh lessons" learned from his campaign in Sylvania, Fredrick's "Hard Life, Hard Body" from surviving so many fights and not to mention his blessing from Sigmar was gained thanks to all the battles he won, Magnus has several traits gained while fighting in Karak Ungor, and Agatha and Alisa have a massive +3 from their adventures slaying the undead across the world.)

I disagree with leaving Freddy Jr. behind because his numbers aren't high enough. I dislike leaving him back because of his relation to Frederick and our concern for his well-being. I do agree that the Druchii targeting him on the battlefield is a notable threat and likelihood and is a fair reason to not send him into this conflict.

He's 18. Even in our world 18 is the age someone can join the military, even against their parent's wishes. Now we've already decided we don't want him to go, and that's fine. We're doing what we can to protect the Hohenzollern family, and though some people might be upset, there's nothing inherently wrong with what we're doing.

But there's always consequences for our actions, and people will die regardless.
 
16 is old enough to go military in Ostland.

Plus, as the saying goes: Old enough to drink, old enough to die.

So anyone can be killed horribly. Cause, you know.

. Young Frederick wishes to volunteer to fight. He's joined with some of the regular patrols, and his first kill was a gor, and so far he's shown himself relatively competent. This will certainly be his first great campaign, however, if he is allowed to join.

Frederick's already been in fighting, he's already killed, but the unfortunate fact of the matter is that in recent years for some reason the beastmen and forest goblins have been incredibly sparse. It's incredibly uncharacteristic of them, leaving Young Frederick without a wealth of enemies to try and cut his teeth on.
 
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16 is old enough to go military in Ostland.

Plus, as the saying goes: Old enough to drink, old enough to die.

So anyone can be killed horribly. Cause, you know.
Of course, though I think totally in character for Freddy to want to protect his grandson if possible since it is clear Freddy still has lingering PTSD about Oskar's death from that scene in the hallway.

I think that is why dark elf getting so close to family hit so hard since it wasn't just an assassination attempt, but one in his own home where his family is supposed to be safe, a ideal that was brutally shattered by Zach years ago and something he has been working hard to make up for since. The Grey Wizards putting down wards now just the latest example of that.
He's 18. Even in our world 18 is the age someone can join the military, even against their parent's wishes. Now we've already decided we don't want him to go, and that's fine. We're doing what we can to protect the Hohenzollern family, and though some people might be upset, there's nothing inherently wrong with what we're doing.

But there's always consequences for our actions, and people will die regardless.
Not disagreeing there, just think Freddy Jr would be more help at home working closely with Magnus than he would be on frontline is all, which happens to make him safer in process.

Oh, and as recent info provided by GM hasn't been a lot of enemies in recent years to really test Freddy Jr a whole lot yet.
 
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Also, so ya'll know, I may be playing Icarus here but I think the next update'll be out sometime tomorrow. I definitely won't have any time to work on it this weekend, as I'll be in an entirely different state many hours and miles away from a computer for the vast majority of that time. So I'm really gunning to have it done tomorrow.
 
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