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Can't break a treaty neither we nor our predecessors signed.
Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism
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Restalaan
What do you mean i am not a real cowboy?
No, it prob doesn't. The treaty says the merchant house of westerland is to be exclusive agents for new world items brought to old world.
Depending on what Alleria is selling, it's not infringing since it only covers New World items and beyond Ulthuan. Keyword here being beyond Ulthuan.
So if they're selling wine from Ulthuan, it gets a pass.
Of course, being merchant houses, they're prob afraid we'll break that monopoly through that loophole.
My source is from here, not sure if it's the same as Torroar though.
We can't infringe on the terms at all since we aren't involved in it. House Alleria could possibly be, but the fact they went through it anyway indicates either they aren't or they think they can have the issue settled their way if it comes up.
Given how long it has been with no apparent issues on their side and the fact that they just figured out how to repair waystones it should be fine. I can't imagine whatever reasons for the Treaty existing can possibly measure up to that.
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That's not a line of diplomatic thinking that Magnus is gonna be a fan of
Edit: On looking at the wording of the treaty nevermind
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Yea we probably don't want to get into the whole semantics of it.Especially with how Complex the Courts of the Pheonix King and Ulthuan are......and probably the Empire if you think about it.
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The Treaty of Amity and Commerce
Be it known among all peoples for all time: that the Merchant Houses of Westerland are named the exclusive agents of the Elfs of Ulthuan for all goods of the New World brought to the Old.
If we wanted to get legal, we could argue that Westerland is not the same entity as Marienburg, so the exclusivity evaporates, but the sovereignty over of the islands is retained.
We could also allow them to trade Ostlander goods throughout the Old World and that would violate no terms of the treaty. The treaty also does not stipulate that the Merchant Houses of Westerland are the exclusive suppliers of all goods from the Old World to the New, merely for the New to the Old. So even if we didn't want to attack the treaty, the elves could purchase goods in Ostland and sell them anywhere in the world.
It would be in the elves interest to do so: breaking the monopoly on Old World goods held by Marienburg would improve their prices.
Be it known among all peoples for all time: that the Merchant Houses of Westerland are named the exclusive agents of the Elfs of Ulthuan for all goods of the New World brought to the Old.
- that the Elfs of Ulthuan agree to provide aid both military and magical to this Barony of Westerland in time of war.
- that the Elfs of Ulthuan shall be Our exclusive agents for the sale of the goods of the Old World in the New.
- that, in return for such considerations, We, Baron Matteus van Hoogmans of Westerland, Baron of Marienburg, First Sea Lord of the Empire, etc., etc., do grant to the High King of Ulthuan perpetual sovereignty over the islands of Geldern, Zeeburg, Oranjekoft, Rijksgebouw, Vlotshuis and Westerleer, there to build houses for His people and a harbour for His ships, for so long as the terms of this treaty are kept.
- All this is done on the 17th day of Erntezeit, I.C. 2150, under the benevolent witness of Manann, Sigmar and Haendryk.
If we wanted to get legal, we could argue that Westerland is not the same entity as Marienburg, so the exclusivity evaporates, but the sovereignty over of the islands is retained.
We could also allow them to trade Ostlander goods throughout the Old World and that would violate no terms of the treaty. The treaty also does not stipulate that the Merchant Houses of Westerland are the exclusive suppliers of all goods from the Old World to the New, merely for the New to the Old. So even if we didn't want to attack the treaty, the elves could purchase goods in Ostland and sell them anywhere in the world.
It would be in the elves interest to do so: breaking the monopoly on Old World goods held by Marienburg would improve their prices.
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@Knightperson
It's considered poor etiquette to double-post. I recommend just editing your second into your first. Or if you really want the Alert to go out, copy the contents of both, delete them, and post the combined post.
It's considered poor etiquette to double-post. I recommend just editing your second into your first. Or if you really want the Alert to go out, copy the contents of both, delete them, and post the combined post.
No. Goods from Ulthuan are exempt from the treaty. Is this trade still making the houses mad? Absolutely.
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To clarify, I don't care enough to fight for it in this trip to Marienburg.
To me it seems to matter. Sea elves seem like a critical part of both actual trade potential and goods distribution (imagine them selling Ostlander guns globally), but then also a huge marker of prestige which would create a snowball of trade
kelgar04
Knight Watcher
- Location
- Here and no were
[X] Inform Maghda of Entire Tri-Claw Compact Situation, Including Prior History Issues.
[X] Don't try to gain Maghda's support against House Rutger, regardless, to try and preserve some notion of neutrality in the matter. She might well choose to act on her own, but don't push for it.(Chance of Success: 100%)
[X] Plan: Alcohol Tasting Tour and Other Stuff
[X] Don't try to gain Maghda's support against House Rutger, regardless, to try and preserve some notion of neutrality in the matter. She might well choose to act on her own, but don't push for it.(Chance of Success: 100%)
[X] Plan: Alcohol Tasting Tour and Other Stuff
- Location
- Underground
Is that all? Hm, then maybe the bolded below...
--[] Speak To The Cult of Manann On Something First, Actually (Seek to establish consistent bilateral communication of intelligence on the Norscans and Druchii. General correspondence and contact between yourself and Maghda would be welcome as well. Ask for Cult assistance on Greatship design, offering to share the design to hopefully help proliferate it, and blessing/operating the Salkalten Lighthouse when it's complete. Ask how they would feel about using the Wingsuits on their ships. Also ask about details on the Treaty of Amity and Commerce. You suspect that others thinking your seek to infringe on that somehow is a part of the Tri-Claw Compact situation so you'd like to to avoid actually doing so or appearing to.)
is rather unnecessary. Seems pretty straightforward. Also adding the bolded to the elf part should have our bases covered.
--[] Visit Elf Town (Alcohol sampling/trade (nothing that would infinge on the Treaty of Amity and Commerce, of course). You hear the occasional rumors from Sadrina, but perhaps elven traders can shed more light on the situation with the Druichi and Albion.
I wonder what it takes to qualify as a merchant house of westerland. Like, if Sabine buys some property in Marienburg, or maybe even if she just purchases a stretch of useless wasteland, would that be enough for the Nassau to be part of the trade? What I see suggests that it's the merchant houses which act as agents - not Marienburg itself, so why not have a merchant house act as an agent in Salkalten?
- Location
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With regards to the treaty, even if we are breaking it/establishing a loophole within it (which we probably are, even if just for one elven house), I don't especially think Ulthuan will care? House Alleria has gained a lot of prestige because of the situation regarding the Fulcrum, and Asur generally think pretty lowly of humans at the best of times.
I won't say that our current situation/asking about the Treaty won't get us into any trouble, because that's honestly pretty arrogant to think so, but I do think the majority of the pushback would come from the merchant houses, and not from Ulthuan itself.
I won't say that our current situation/asking about the Treaty won't get us into any trouble, because that's honestly pretty arrogant to think so, but I do think the majority of the pushback would come from the merchant houses, and not from Ulthuan itself.
[X] Inform Maghda of Entire Tri-Claw Compact Situation, Including Prior History Issues.
[X] Don't try to gain Maghda's support against House Rutger, regardless, to try and preserve some notion of neutrality in the matter. She might well choose to act on her own, but don't push for it.(Chance of Success: 100%)
[X] Plan: Alcohol Tasting Tour and Other Stuff
fucking drama dice, always dramaing about.
[X] Don't try to gain Maghda's support against House Rutger, regardless, to try and preserve some notion of neutrality in the matter. She might well choose to act on her own, but don't push for it.(Chance of Success: 100%)
[X] Plan: Alcohol Tasting Tour and Other Stuff
fucking drama dice, always dramaing about.
Enthusiast#117
This is not the Profile you are looking for
- Location
- United States
[X] Inform Maghda of Entire Tri-Claw Compact Situation, Including Prior History Issues.
[X] Don't try to gain Maghda's support against House Rutger, regardless, to try and preserve some notion of neutrality in the matter. She might well choose to act on her own, but don't push for it.(Chance of Success: 100%)
[X] Return Home, Immediately: It's time to go home. You've done what you needed to do. (Travel home, no other time spent in Marienburg)
Massgamer
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Vote seems to be nearly split on people who want to do a bit of everything even if don't get much out of it and those who want to focus on just a small number of things to get the most out of it.
I get Marienburg is full of stuff people want to get into, but the simple fact we reasonably can't or else this interlude will last well into the double digits! I think its important just to get stuff that is mainly important now and only a few extra bits, and be happy with that.
I get Marienburg is full of stuff people want to get into, but the simple fact we reasonably can't or else this interlude will last well into the double digits! I think its important just to get stuff that is mainly important now and only a few extra bits, and be happy with that.
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Mass, there's a major problem with the plan.
There is no point to leave Adira and Volgar at the Temple to be recovered later. We are not visiting the Araby area in your plan. Unless you have an compelling argument. Or changed the plan. I'd rather have Visit Dwarf's Hold (sample dwarf cuisine and alcohol) than going to Arabtown.
Patterns to travel for fastest time
--[] Visit Norscan Town (Try out the different alcohols on offer, also try to information gather as to why so many Norscans have abandoned the coast of the Sea of Claws)
--[] Visit Nippon Town (Alcohol Sampling and trade)
--[] Visit Indic District (Alcohol Sampling and trade)
--[] Visit Norscan Town (Try out the different alcohols on offer, also try to information gather as to why so many Norscans have abandoned the coast of the Sea of Claws)
--[] Visit Nippon Town (Alcohol Sampling and trade)
Arabtown goes here
--[] Visit Indic District (Alcohol Sampling and trade)
--[] Visit Norscan Town (Try out the different alcohols on offer, also try to information gather as to why so many Norscans have abandoned the coast of the Sea of Claws)
Dwarf's hold goes here
--[] Visit Nippon Town (Alcohol Sampling and trade)
--[] Visit Indic District (Alcohol Sampling and trade)
That's your reason to not even do something with Natasha while in the largest city in the world as a tourist? You know, actually take advantage of being on a vacation now that the death possibility is not hanging over Freddy.
Feels weak to me, man.
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Massgamer
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I want to leave her cause she is tired from healing Freddy, that's my reasoning. I see no reason to visit Dwarf Hold since we already have our own version back in Ostland thar provides mostly the same.
My plan does not have us visiting Arabytown because its easier to make trade connections with them later compared to further eastern nations.
I'm sorry it sounds that way to you, I'd rather make most out of the trip until we leave since rather not stay more than a day since Oskana hates city.
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Sorry, but that is simply not true, we can stay in Marienmburg for several days as confirmed torroar... So with the plan Alcohol Tasting Tour and Other Stuff can, literally, get everything that it is in your plan, and probably significantly more.
And why we should only "get stuff that is mainly important now and only a few extra bits"? We are in the most cosmopolitan city in the Empire, let's take the chance to enjoy it the most we can... We will have more than enough Gloom and Doom Once Malagor decides to attack.
Oskana literally hunts and eats minotaurs, she is a big girl and she can handle it.
Plus we have taken her to Altdorf numerous times, ad we have stayed there several days, so I don´t really think we will have any serious complications out of it.
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Massgamer
Advance toward the Future
- Location
- The Future
The GM also explained how much it will cost to stay in the city with both our forces and Oskana, especially since the latter is very uncomfortable around so many people and can't be housed with other beasts. I'm worried we will beggar ourselves/cause an incident if Oskana finally snaps if we stay too long. People aren't even voting for staying in an inn or outside the city, which is kinda unfair to leave that up for GM to decide after people asked if we can stay longer in Marienburg.
If people want to stay longer and vote for it its fine, but please at least have a clear plan about it since as it stands there is nothing there.
I'd also prefer for us to maximize the time and then progress, rather than eat the entire buffet. You're asking for it now, but if we really did vote for every option I guarantee you people would be griping towards the tail to move on again.
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- Spain
We don't have to specify anything, torroar has stated later on the post you are quoting that once the day is over he will give us several options for lodging...
Or we may not, torroar is an awesome writer and I am pretty sure that most people would not mind to stay here for 3-4 updates on one of the most interesting places on the Empire which will give an already awesome writer lots of things to play with.
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We can camp outside the city. It's not like we couldn't make a damm good defensive camp just from the pulverizers planting their shields in the ground. But yes, we get options to lodge next update.