-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism
- Thread starter torroar
- Start date
- Mature
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy intrigue happens male protagonist ck2 quest belief stronk count of cannons drunken wisdom foes in the shadows graf of guns (guns) if you have a question check the front page first it begins... mountain vietnam ogres paranoia rising unseen enemies everywhere use the search function before asking waifu wars wake the bull
How much of a difference does it make to manaan if we burn the ships vs giving them to the cult? If the difference is large, I'll vote for burning all the ships and the triton fury keelhaul.
Blackout
Fed By Comments
- Location
- Who knows?
Eh, it's fine, there's simply zero chance that they're catching up to All In or Not Quite so it doesn't really matter. The only reason I haven't switched my vote for a plan that could win is that I dislike both equally.
Gonna offer moral support to my own plan. And for anybody who wants to give all 5 ships, but is worried about the keelhauling.
[X] Plan: Almost All In, But Less Personal Danger
(Again, All In starts losing ground, I'm switching to that. But if not, then, I'd like to offer a show of solidarity to this option and group.
)
Having Maghda talk to Freddy and then have Freddy go and declare "I am giving Ostland's flagships to be dedicated to Manann. And also, underdoing a really intense keelhauling." will also reflect on Maghda; it will make people go "Wow, she got Freddy to do all that?" The two categories of actions have different results and opinion sways of course. The ships thing is bigger with the priests.
But overall, yes. Magdha having 5 Greatships to offer to priests of Manann and the most devout of Manann, will do huge amounts of support to her sway and influence.
[X] Plan: Almost All In, But Less Personal Danger
(Again, All In starts losing ground, I'm switching to that. But if not, then, I'd like to offer a show of solidarity to this option and group.
)That was one of my thoughts, yes. The update outright says that Magdha doesn't have full sway over all elements of Marienburg, and that she is trying to be a reformer -- feeling that too many of the faithful are gripped by lure of coin rather than caring about Manann and the sailors and coastal workers and river workers and people of Manann. ((Paraphrasing heavily here! Am not pleased with this wording, but... I felt I got it out awkwardly.))
Having Maghda talk to Freddy and then have Freddy go and declare "I am giving Ostland's flagships to be dedicated to Manann. And also, underdoing a really intense keelhauling." will also reflect on Maghda; it will make people go "Wow, she got Freddy to do all that?" The two categories of actions have different results and opinion sways of course. The ships thing is bigger with the priests.
But overall, yes. Magdha having 5 Greatships to offer to priests of Manann and the most devout of Manann, will do huge amounts of support to her sway and influence.
Uh, good question actually! I don't know myself, so let me take a look and...
Greatship 6: It's been many years, and the greatship hasn't capsized, exploded, or otherwise run into a disaster. It's proven itself in year after year of naval raids, so it is time to build another one. Considering the size of them and the actual specialized work it requires to make one compared to wolf ships or galleys, it will take a considerable bit of funds to produce another. But, hopefully, it should be worth it. Throw some money in, some lumber, and write up some new cannons to be granted. You can trust the Prince of Salkalten to select a proper captain for the ship. You'll also have to come up with a name for the thing. But, overall, it shouldn't be too hard to make one thanks to the repeated expansions on the docks of your major port city. Cost: 500. Time: 1 Year. Reward: 1 New Greatship.
... Wait, what, that's it? It's 1 year and 500 gold?
That's... less than I was expecting/fearing.
I mean, I was expecting the "1 year" thing (though fearing it might be 2 years) but... yeah. We can do this.
Wow, we can recover our defenses in like 3+ years totally.
((3 years because torroar said that we can build 2 at a time!))So, heck, in just two years we would be back up to 4 Greatships!
Guys, we can do this! We can afford this money-wise, even!
Massgamer
Advance toward the Future
- Location
- The Future
That's good to see, and GM did say earlier can do actions where we make multiple Greatships in one turn. Most likely two to three per action at least.
So its good to know we can relatively easily get Greatship numbers back up, and in a way giving them all up is pretty heavy spiritual wise since kinda like tossing all our possessions away to sea. Its too bad since we didn't bring them with us the burning of dark elf ships/giving of greatships won't be mentioned till later.
It's. Almost. Like. I. Said. Maghda. Was. Trying. To. Not. Beggar. The. Ostland. Treasury.
It's been remarked to me that I used too much OOC information and overtly influenced the voting for this particular incident. This is true, but it simply read to me as people just not...understanding certain things. And that I probably could have made a larger Cult of Manann informational threadmarked post, rather than not doing that. So, yes, I messed up on that point, and I apologize.
But, for instance, in what I mean as not understanding, is this very thing.
Greatships are, technically, for a single ship? Quite expensive to build. An entire year is taken up in their construction.
However, for some reason, when Maghda remarked she wasn't trying to harm Ostland's treasury, and this is offered up as something else, somehow the fact that the Greatships are in fact 500 gold and a year to build got missed entirely. Instead it was interpreted, by some, as profoundly antagonistic and a vicious smirking demand, when it was - to me at least - blatantly not that.
But that's all I'll say on that right now. Let's please just keep to voting. I'll close it in, I don't know, 5-6 hours. Sort of want to just get this over with, at this point.
It's been remarked to me that I used too much OOC information and overtly influenced the voting for this particular incident. This is true, but it simply read to me as people just not...understanding certain things. And that I probably could have made a larger Cult of Manann informational threadmarked post, rather than not doing that. So, yes, I messed up on that point, and I apologize.
But, for instance, in what I mean as not understanding, is this very thing.
Greatships are, technically, for a single ship? Quite expensive to build. An entire year is taken up in their construction.
However, for some reason, when Maghda remarked she wasn't trying to harm Ostland's treasury, and this is offered up as something else, somehow the fact that the Greatships are in fact 500 gold and a year to build got missed entirely. Instead it was interpreted, by some, as profoundly antagonistic and a vicious smirking demand, when it was - to me at least - blatantly not that.
But that's all I'll say on that right now. Let's please just keep to voting. I'll close it in, I don't know, 5-6 hours. Sort of want to just get this over with, at this point.
- Location
- Underground
That certainly wasn't my intent, it's a turn of phrase on the amount of effort/cost the actions themselves require and the level of appeasement we stand to gain. Not a reflection on the players themselves in any way. But I'll keep it in mind.
I wasn't saying it is a binary choice, either. Recommended was the wrong word. Maghda wouldn't have presented any option that she thought would be a death sentence. Any option she presents might be enough. So the blue bunny might be enough to appease Manann, but I honestly doubt it.
What I am saying is that anything less than maximum effort on both options leaves us guessing and hoping that it'll be enough to resolve this.
Five greatships is $2,500. That's a good chunk of change but even if 100% of that expense can be credited to the Imperial stipend I think making sure (as Ostland and by extension its navy/the third Imperial Fleet is back in Manann's good graces is worth the cost.
We also used the stipend to build wolf ships, galleys, and shore defenses. And we can build more greatships in time.
Frederick agreed to the Inquisition. He may not have fully realized that he could be killed if they found ANYTHING wrong...but there was always a serious risk in agreeing to that.
How much blood, pain and suffering equals what was done to the innocent priests? Frederick can't match that in truth, but he can come as close to it as humanly possible.
The gods are real and burning the ships may well have a greater individual impact in regard to divine favor...but I guess that's my own line I don't want to cross. I don't want them burned when they can be put to use and do good protecting people.
Last edited:
Yeah.
But my worry is what will happen during those two to three years when we don't have any Greatships to defend ourselves with.
Look, I probably come across as stupidly paranoid, but I fear that we will see Salkaten and our other Ports burned to the Ground in that time by Enemy Raids.
Also, if we chose Triton's Fury...I KNOW that Freddy will die from this. i don't know why, I just KNOW.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't want to take the Chance.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't want to take the Chance.
This is painful to think about because, like...
... The "A Soggy Sop" option literally gave more monetary offering to the Cult than giving all 5 Greatships would. >< A Greatship is worth 500, five of them together make 2,500 and that's less than the 5,000 of Soggy Sop. ><
I mean, I'm more relieved by the "Oh thank goodness, it does only take a year to build, like my memories were telling me but I wasn't a hundred percent sure" thing rather than the cost -- the cost just made me pleasantly surprised in a "Oh huh, this doesn't cost as much as some might fear." -- but the time, whew.
Of course, it is still the case that one could advance the argument of "But we won't have the Greatships available to us meanwhile!" That is still true. That is still a fear or concern that people can have.
But, well... that runs into the issue of "Maghda does not want to screw over Ostland's seafaring people and coasts."
Like, yes, if Maghda drops dead tomorrow and Rutger or Geisen or Weiss get elected... yeah, I could see them screwing us over by taking away some of the Greatships. (Maybe. I don't think even they would be that bold, as to deprive all the Greatships. Magnus the Pious would fuck them up if they did that, socially speaking, I believe.)
And yes, if the Black Arks attack Marienburg instead of Ostland, or if "A Norscan invasion that could have sent Nordland to its knees" (the same one that ran into a Black Ark instead, and so did not make it over) from long ago shows up and goes for Marienburg?
Yes, then, I could see Magdha diverting some (or perhaps even most or all) of the Greatships... But to be fair? Frederick would do that too! If all the Black Arks were heading for Marienburg, or Nordland, then Frederick would probably order his ships to go and assist as soon as he could!
Because it's an all-hands-on-deck situation. And is exactly the sort of situation that you need Greatships for. And also because, if Black Arks and Norscan Crusades are hitting X Place, then they're probably not hitting Y Place. So you send the forces and navies to where they're needed.
Tactical voting time, I guess.
[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way
[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way
Massgamer
Advance toward the Future
- Location
- The Future
I knew it only took a year to build, but for some reason brain said it was more expensive and I didn't think I needed to check otherwise since sure about it. Weird how if you assume something long enough it seems like fact in head.
Like said, we do have a whole fleet of other ships as well and merc ships as well, way more than we do Greatships. They are great ships, pun not intended, don't get me wrong but not like we will lose all the time without them since we are technically only fleet that uses them and still considered the weakest one. Nordland and Marienburg fleets don't need them for example and they are much better ones.
Now that is paranoia, no offense. You can't know something will happen when dice rolls are involved mate.
- Location
- Germany
[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way
I'm not trying to sound standoffish or anything but choosing to go all in on keelhauling because of reasons "X Y or Z" which for some seem yo boil down to "because its it's funny" or "Because Freddy always goes over the top when it comes to penance" just isn't enough for me to put Freddys life in such danger, while some may wave it away or think that the danger is minimal with all the things Freddy has to support him, fact is, it is dangerous. Extremely so even with how it was presented as an option.
And someone(since it got auto corrected and I can't remember who) brings up a good point I hadn't thought of. If..if Freddy somehow does die during the keelhauling, it would destroy any chance of there being reconciliation between the Hohenzollern and the Cult. Not to mention the chance of Natasha/Urgdug/Oskana going freaking beserk in the city.
So yeah, I somewhat understand why people would go for it but I personaly just don't think it's worth it or even necessary.
I'm not trying to sound standoffish or anything but choosing to go all in on keelhauling because of reasons "X Y or Z" which for some seem yo boil down to "because its it's funny" or "Because Freddy always goes over the top when it comes to penance" just isn't enough for me to put Freddys life in such danger, while some may wave it away or think that the danger is minimal with all the things Freddy has to support him, fact is, it is dangerous. Extremely so even with how it was presented as an option.
And someone(since it got auto corrected and I can't remember who) brings up a good point I hadn't thought of. If..if Freddy somehow does die during the keelhauling, it would destroy any chance of there being reconciliation between the Hohenzollern and the Cult. Not to mention the chance of Natasha/Urgdug/Oskana going freaking beserk in the city.
So yeah, I somewhat understand why people would go for it but I personaly just don't think it's worth it or even necessary.
Last edited:
*sigh* Yeah, you're right. I just really, really, REALLY don't wanna risk him dying in such a humiliating way.
[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way
yannoshka
Thunda birb
- Location
- Smartarse cramschool
And that is perfectly fine.
I myself think burning them all would have been excessive.
I intended to argue for sacrificing the one ship baring Freddy's name, but by the time I decided that adding one more argument would have been counterproductive for the thread at large, so as stated, decided to settle for the next best thing.
- Location
- Spain
Ok, tactical vote time. It is more than what I am comfortable giving, but it is not going All-In like the other running option
[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way
[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way
Can I convince you to vote for "Plan: Almost All In, But Less Personal Danger" then?
It still gives all the Greatships, and does less keelhauling. I truly thing that giving all 5 Greatships is better for our defense and our interactions with Magdha and relations with the cult, and thus our future interactions with Marienburg and the cult.
And I'm voting for it myself, in a show of support for it. (I realize what tactical voting means, but... well, it's in the top 5 as far as vote numbers go? Plus, I made that plan in part so that people who felt strongly about and worried about the Keelhauling could vote for a safer keelhauling, after all.)
And now, off I go on an hour-long walk. Let's hope Manann doesn't freeze me or rain on me.
Tactical vote change:
[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way
[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way
- Location
- Germany
While I certainly would and even agree to some degree in giving away all the Greatships, I just don't see it getting enough votes at this point and all the people going All In has me already worried, not knowing how the numbers are at this time. So if more people begin going for this or the numbers give it a chance then I'd switch.Can I convince you to vote for "Plan: Almost All In, But Less Personal Danger" then?
It still gives all the Greatships, and does less keelhauling. I truly thing that giving all 5 Greatships is better for our defense and our interactions with Magdha and relations with the cult, and thus our future interactions with Marienburg and the cult.
And I'm voting for it myself, in a show of support for it. (I realize what tactical voting means, but... well, it's in the top 5 as far as vote numbers go? Plus, I made that plan in part so that people who felt strongly about and worried about the Keelhauling could vote for a safer keelhauling, after all.)
And now, off I go on an hour-long walk. Let's hope Manann doesn't freeze me or rain on me.
If I could approval vote I would, but torroar has specifically banned that. I have to go for the top opposition to possibly killing Frederick.