I'm asking why people are so desperate to give up ships we need for ourselves. Keep in mind we STILL have the weakest naxy. Even after all the years of buildup.
So the sea god doesn't destroy our navy and or one of our cities. So that his worshippers don't refuse to crew our navy and our trade fleets. So we don't have one of the wealthiest and most widespread organizations in the Old World constantly on our ass over us ordering the murder of almost a hundred innocent specially trained and extremely expensive priests.

So I ask again. Do not start this shit again, it's been explained to death by both questers and the QM.
 
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@Archaicx1 if it makes you feel better at all about giving up greatships GM has confirmed we can take an action later to make multiple at once so we can more easily make up those we give up. Giving them up now hopefully gets us in black with Manann and his cult so we don't have to worry about them again in general, so worthy investment I believe. Besides, we have a pretty large fleet of normal and merc ships so think we are okay for at least a turn.
 
@Archaicx1 if it makes you feel better at all about giving up greatships GM has confirmed we can take an action later to make multiple at once so we can more easily make up those we give up. Giving them up now hopefully gets us in black with Manann and his cult so we don't have to worry about them again in general, so worthy investment I believe. Besides, we have a pretty large fleet of normal and merc ships so think we are okay for at least a turn.
According to the sea power level we are in low and that's WITH the great ships. Plus our finances are working at a net negative. True we have a lot of savings but it seems like were starting to get into a position of massive loss soon.
 
I'm not starting anything. I have the same right as everyone else to ask questions. I'm genuinely confused why we are trying to appease someone who doesnt like us anyway. That's the feeling I got from the head priestess.
If you're confused may I suggest reading the last dozen and a half pages of discussion including numerous response by the QM?

Because literally all of your questions are answered there.
 
According to the sea power level we are in low and that's WITH the great ships. Plus our finances are working at a net negative. True we have a lot of savings but it seems like were starting to get into a position of massive loss soon.
To be fair I am unsure about the criteria that judges sea power level, but I'm pretty sure the number of ships we have is only one aspect of it and getting several greatships in quick succession didn't raise that level very much before or not having it make it that low so its more than numbers. Like said, we can quickly replace said ships next turn and very unlikely that the end of this turn would see huge naval disaster after they leave.

Also, GM has mentioned there are good odds that if Ostland makes a very large and effective penance she could help us out subtly by having the Knights Mariner and other fleets of cult patrol Sea of Claws more for us, thus making us safer.
 
So the sea god doesn't
To be fair I am unsure about the criteria that judges sea power level, but I'm pretty sure the number of ships we have is only one aspect of it and getting several greatships in quick succession didn't raise that level very much before or not having it make it that low so its more than numbers. Like said, we can quickly replace said ships next turn and very unlikely that the end of this turn would see huge naval disaster after they leave.

Also, GM has mentioned there are good odds that if Ostland makes a very large and effective penance she could help us out subtly by having the Knights Mariner and other fleets of cult patrol Sea of Claws more for us, thus making us safer.
Maybe your right. I'm just nervous about giving up so much power now it's been proved that even godly rolls and what we thought were logical decisions could hurt us badly.
 
I won't continue posting because I've already said what I feel on the subject.
Nor in this case was I referring to you and I apologise if I gave that impression.

Freddy's daughter is the head of the religious secret police so uh other nations have similar organizations
One torroar had to explicitly create and one torroar has himself noted is an empire way of doing things because the Sigmarites are a special brand of crazy.

Absolutely fucking wrong. Let's see what happens if you are born as a peasant.
Kislev: As good as it gets considering where they live.
Brettonia: Your entire life consists of recreations of the repression scene in Monthy Python.
Estalia: Not enough canon information.
Tilea: Puppet in the games of merchant princes.
Border Princes: Border Princes.
Empire: The worst that can happen is an overzealous witch hunter burning your village down or inter province fighting.

Witch:
Kislev: If female, forced into Ice Witches or die. If male, die.
Brettonia: If female, Damsel of the Lady (that is to say, unwitting mouthpiece of a eugenics program that miserably failed in the End Times). If male, Sons of Bretonnia or die (though it wasn't mentioned later, so likely just die at the latest canon).
Empire before Magnus the Pious: Die if unstable (totally justified in universe), or become one of the Hedgewise if "lucky". After Magnus the Pious: The only place that can help you survive through official institutions.
Estalia and Tilea: Good luck with no formal training.
Border Princes: Border Princes.

Not counting Greenskins and Chaos as those are universally present.
The Empire provided a great power that survived a magical black death, being split in three for centuries, WAAAAGH Gorbad, Gorthor's rampage and the Great War Against Chaos, and dealt far more than they took in the End Times, only failing to survive due to literal backstabbing by Mannfred.
Kislev: So seemingly about as good as an empire peasant.
Brettonia: Or can be a literal Arthurian fantasy of happy singing peasants, cause GW'ds cannot do a consistent tone for them.
Estalia: Well if we go by sterotypes they each declare they're the king of whatever bit of land they're on.
Tilea: So you mean like how the peasants in the empire are entirely at the whims of their (often asshat) nobles?
Border Princes: A strange mishmash.
Empire: That is taking an entirely too good view of how things are. You're of course forgetting the very high chance of being eaten alive by beastmen for example a problem Brettonnia doesn't have because they dealt with their trees. No where for them to hide in. Further more you're forgetting that

Magic user
Kislev: At least they're not all burned alive, further more no they do (or until recently) did have a place for male magic users to go too Fire Spire the only male ones who were killed were those specifically using ice magic.
Brettonia: Great, but we're not using end times lore, and given how good the damsels are its a pretty sweet gig. Great still not using end times nonsense.
Tilia/Estalia: Well they're already off too a good start by being far down south and having (at the very least) access to long traditions of mercinary wizards, and other magical traditions such as the elementalists.

The empire's "feats: Everyone survived the black death it hit every single nation, not a good sign that estalia can claim to be having a less bloody civil war, congratulations empire you barely survived mean while Brettonia is actively stomping on infinite ork skulls, because Kislev stood in its path and took the majority of the damage and literal god man turned up with elven support to get the empire to stop being idiots. So no credit for that is on Magnus.

Again nobody uses the end times cause the end times was shit on practically every level, the empire in it especially. Particularly when they tried to turn Sigmar into the freaking god emperor.

Its vile.

PFA I'm not going to keep on blithering I'll just tick someone off, new day and all that so good mornin!
 
This is my plan for what I'm going to be voting for, I think. Calling it "Manann, take the wheel!

[] Plan: Manann, take the wheel!
[] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
[] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
-[] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
-[] Give all 5.
[] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
-[] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]

I fully expect for Maghda to keep some, perhaps even all!, of the Greatships in Ostland and defending its coastline.

Furthermore, she'll crew them with the most elite and devout of the Cult of Manann. Which means not only will we have the finest crews on our finest flagships... But that our navy will see that they are sailing alongside Manann's finest and most blessed. And THAT will be a hell of a sign to them! A hell of a morale boost, and a hell of a way to calm and reassure them.

Finally, donating 5 Greatships to the Cult of Manann on Maghda's say-so? That will be a right kick in the pants against the merchants in Marienburg. Maghda will have a lot of prestige and confidence from this. Furthermore, she'll be more likely to like us, and so we might be able to cooperate or coordinate with the Cult of Manann, when it comes to coastal stuff and ship stuff. The favor of the Matriarch of the Cult of Manann is not to be underestimated.

The maximum Keelhauling... Is because I want the people to be satisfied with seeing how serious and willing to show personal repentance and responsibility Frederick is. This will not just calm the masses though, but also the angry priests. Furthermore, we have a Jade Wizard and the Light of Summer. We have a lot of assurance here.

In short: I see this options not merely or not just as a cost or sacrifice... But also a huge opportunity. An opportunity to show everyone back home that, yes, Manann has been appeased. That Manann approves of them continuing to sail and bless ships.

This is not politics (or not "just" politics), this is also for the good of our people. All of them.

And if we can bear the burdens and the costs of this... Then, why not pay them and take them? Frederick is greatly positioned to withstand the keelhauling. And Frederick is able to give a great and new gift to the Cult of Manann, in the form of an entirely new ship.

Hell, if we manage to get the favor of the Cult of Manann, and Maghda's favor, then they'd probably be willing to help bless the Lighthouse of Salkalten too.

And to bless the new Greatships that we will be making to replace the ones we will be giving away.

So: I see this as both the right thing to do (in the sense of "something that will help and reassure and protect all our people back home") and an opportunity too.

And the fact that the cost is one we can afford to pay. The cost being risk, and the giving away of ships that will probably be used to protect us anyway.

And the potential gains -- even if we don't see some kind of mystical gains from Manann? that's okay, that's fine -- as good too; having great crew on Greatships, sailing the Sea of Claws and defending the Empire's north coasts? That's a boon. To all of the Empire, not just Ostland.
I am off the opinion 3 is too much. Going maximum overkills is likely to leave both the heart of summer drained, Adira drained and/or Us down for the count for a while. I'm thinking second most dangerous at the MOST for keelhauling and at most 2 ships, along with of course burning the two dark elven vessels. The harder we go, the more likely we need to undercut the meaning of the keelhauling by needing healing to survive it as well. being a try hard who is clearly trying to hard to get back on Manaan's good side rings of insincerity.
I disagree actually -- I think we will be recovered in mere days at most/worst. Because, like, the Light of Summer recharges in hours I think. I think it's totally worth going all in.
 
I'm genuinely confused why we are trying to appease someone who doesnt like us anyway. That's the feeling I got from the head priestess.
mmm rather different impression I got. They seemed to me like birds of a feather (or fish of scale) in terms of temperment and clicked very rapidly. The main reason there isn't reason for them to like one another is the current situation.
 
Wow, I finally finished reading this quest. Three days flew by unnoticed.Since I'm rather tongue-in-cheek, I just want to say a big thank you to the GM. It's great to see a quest based on my favorite setting being done by someone so passionate about what he do. So it pained me to see your reaction to posts from people who don't like the current situation with the Maan cult. Especially since I'm one of them. I was even thinking that because some people disagreed with your course you might drop the quest, but I'm glad I was wrong.

I can understand the anger of many people, this is the first time I myself have experienced such vivid emotions from reading anything in a very long time, too bad they were negative with the last update. It was the first time I hated someone so much that I broke my desk out of anger. This whole situation where a hero of the Empire, one of the greatest men of his time, wants to be lynched by lowlifes who in their entire lives haven't accomplished a hundredth of what our Frederick has accomplished. Especially when you consider that he is right all the way, from beginning to end.I understand why this analogue of the Pope is trying to downplay the scale of the problem by making it look like an unfortunate mistake, because to do otherwise is to admit his own mistakes, although any sane person just looking at the scale of the terrorist operation and thinking logically will come to the only right conclusion, seeing the influence of Chaos forces here. For in this situation they are the biggest winners. In this case, the use of witch hunters, an organization that fights with chaos, seems to be the only correct option.

In that case, the cult of Maan, should lay claim to the cult of Sigmar, not Frederick. But messing with the empire's main cult is scary and dangerous, unlike our protagonist, who can be sacrificed to appease his political opponents within the cult. Bravo High Priestess! In general, this whole situation with repentance, reminds me of a moment from real history, when the Pope, to assert his authority, humiliated secular rulers forcing them to kiss his shoes.

It is especially amusing to see how some people think that the high priestess is a good person because she did not destroy Frederick. Not realizing that she does this not because she wants our hero to come out of this situation with minimal losses, but because his destruction would play into the hands of her political opponents within the cult, and set against her many secular rulers, who are very sensitive to the Church's encroachment on their power and dignity.

In any case, I hope this situation will soon be over and I can forget about it like a bad dream.

P.S. I'm sorry if what I wrote was unclear, English is not my first language.
 
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@Garlak Isn't that plan the same as the all-in plan from previous pages? (Then again, there's plenty of other plans that it's making my head spin tbh.)

But yea, if we're donating the greatships, we'll need to take the building more greatships option pronto to replenish all of our assets. Thankfully it only takes a year to build and we retain the personnel that works on it with all the experience.

Might even allow us to upgrade the greatship design to fit in the flyers/gliders too.
 
mmm rather different impression I got. They seemed to me like birds of a feather (or fish of scale) in terms of temperment and clicked very rapidly. The main reason there isn't reason for them to like one another is the current situation.
Yeah honestly i am a bit sad we can't pal around with her due to the circumstances. Seems like battle hijinks could be fun, but alas, we are not focused on naval warfare.
 
Yeah honestly i am a bit sad we can't pal around with her due to the circumstances. Seems like battle hijinks could be fun, but alas, we are not focused on naval warfare.

Nega-verse Magdha quest prob looks hilarious.

*First day on job after getting placed there unwillingly as the head of the manaan cult*

The holders of the shore burned ships around the old world, the previous top ranking priest are gone, reputation is in shambles, trade is heavily disrupted, and the latest crisis of a PR just landed on your feet when one of the elector count just unleashed the Witch Hunters.

"Terrific."

"When they say we got a promotion, this was not what I was expecting."
 
I swear to the lord God if one more person comes in here talking about "how all of this is bullshit" and that "the Manannites should really be giving us reparations" I'm going to self-destruct.

We fucked up. We sent some of the most rabid, unhinged zealots of a rival cult onto a mostly peaceful institution because we wanted expedience over trust. Now we pay for it, when every other Elector Count and the fucking Emperor himself have censured us for it, when we've caused a massive mess at the Grand Conclave, when we may have crippled our navy and our trade fleets possibly forever or at least until Freddy dies.

And now, for some fucking reason that I can only assume to be total immersion in protagonist centered morality, people keep acting like we did nothing wrong. Innocent people were murdered for no reason other than Sigmarite paranoia! Innocent people who are extremely expensive to train and are valuable specialists dead because we couldn't just wait a while longer and let the cult sort itself out, like they've done consistently for nigh on two thousand and three hundred fucking years!

And this woman has been nothing but reasonable! She could have asked for our fucking legs and if we didn't give em we'd be ripped apart by a violent mob! Instead she offers us numerous ways to provide penance while ignoring all the overtly lethal ones. She is well within her rights to demand our fucking cock and balls on a platter but she didn't. Because she and Freddy fundamentally want that same thing and she knows that. So she's trying to make this as not shit as possible without undermining her own authority.

I just don't get how anyone can look at the shit we pulled and decide "yeah we were totally in the right to try and take authority away from the religious head of a powerful cult by unleashing the rabid dogs of another more powerful and more churlish cult on the entire population of their clergy within our province." And then act surprised when the faithful of that cult and everyone with even an ounce of political acumen realized we made a colossal fuck up and told us about it. We may have gotten our rep back to neutral with the electors for pushing the Druchii angle, but we still have yet to do anything about the pissed off sea god and his equally mad followers, of which this city is full need I remind.

Whether we are in the right or wrong doesn't even matter because if we don't do something right now, we are going to have to fight our way out of a nominally allied city because of an angry mob while we know there are enemy interest active in the area. So instead why don't we appease that mob, ally with the woman who has decided to not call for our bankruptcy or death by drowning and try to make the best out of a shit situation?
 
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One torroar had to explicitly create and one torroar has himself noted is an empire way of doing things because the Sigmarites are a special brand of crazy.
Chekists are canon, Alex's branch she created is the new part.

example a problem Brettonnia doesn't have because they dealt with their trees. No where for them to hide in. Further more you're forgetting that
lol yeah no Beastmen in Brettonia cuz they took care of their forests like the Morghur the Shadowgave in the Forest of Arden!

Look, I'm not going to go line by line and refute what you have written as most are just factually wrong because you've clearly made up your mind regardless of what has actually been put pen to paper, but please if you are going to make assertions make ones more easily defendable then this kind of stuff. It seems like bad faith otherwise and I don't think that is your intention.
 
[] Plan: Manann, take the wheel!
Someone already made this plan. Its called Plan All in on Reconciling with Manann.
I am heading off to bed and i know no one will listen or read this an hour from now but please can you see if others made the plan you want without making a brand new one. Please. I would like to not have a huge number of the same plans with the only difference being the name.

Here is a list so far: list
 
I swear to the lord God if one more person on comes in here talking about "how all of this is bullshit" and that "the Manannites should really be giving us repetitions" I'm going to self-destruct.

We fucked up. We sent some of the most rabid, unhinged zealots of a rival cult onto a mostly peaceful institution because we wanted expedience over trust. Now we pay for it, when every other Elector Count and the fucking Emperor himself have censured us for it, when we've caused a massive mess at the Grand Conclave, when we may have crippled our navy and our trade fleets.

And now, for some fucking reason that I can only assume to be total immersion in protagonist centered morality, people keep acting like we did nothing wrong. Innocent people were murdered for no reason other than Sigmarite paranoia! Innocent people who are extremely expensive to train and are valuable specialists dead because we couldn't just wait a while longer and let the cult sort itself out, like they've done consistently for nigh on two thousand and three hundred fucking years!

And this woman has been nothing but reasonable! She could have asked for our fucking legs and if we didn't give em we'd be ripped apart by a violent mob! Instead she offers us numerous ways to provide penance while ignoring all the overtly lethal ones. She is well within her rights to demand our fucking cock and balls on a platter but she didn't. Because she and Freddy fundemtnally what that same thing and she knows that. So she's trying to make this as not shit as possible without undermining her own authority.

I just don't get how anyone can look at the shit we pulled and decide "yeah we were totally in the right to try and take authority away from the religious head of a powerful cult by unleashing the rabid dogs of another more powerful and more churlish cult on the entire population of their clergy within our province." And then act surprised when the faithful of that cult and everyone with even an ounce of political acumen realized we made a colossal fuck up and told us about it. We may have gotten our rep back to neutral with the electors for pushing the Druchii angle, but we still have yet to do anything about the pissed off sea god and his equally mad followers, of which this city is full need I remind.

Whether we are in the right or wrong doesn't even matter because if we don't do something right now, we are going to have to fight out way our of a nominally allied city because of an angry mob while we know there are enemy interest active in the area. So instead why don't we appease that mob, ally with the woman who has decided to not call for our bankruptcy or death by drowning and try to make the best out of a shit situation?
Maybe some people are a little annoyed that they have a character with the prestige score that Freddy has and the far flung allies Freedy has get subjected to what amounts to a religious shakedown. You're saying that Freddy is lucky to be alive and not torn apart by a mob? If the Manannites fuck this up, they will legitimately have managed to get the Dwarves and High Elves to agree on something for the first time in thousands of years. Revenge on the group responsible for the death of their close friend and ally. Neither group of which I will remind you bother with Manann worship.

Hell at which point is talk going to turn to the compensation the cult is officially offering every one else for their critical failure to control their fanatics as well? Because this is starting to feel like a circus to cover up their own failings by focusing on Ostland's. Sure, Freddy let loose his collection of barely controlled fanatics to chase down a crazed sub-cult that just finished a terror attack. As fitting for barely controlled fanatics they aplied the loosest possible definition of guilt and started chopping. So us getting left out of any kind of payment makes sense. But other then hunting down the sub-cult her self I've not seen anything about compensation for all the ships burned and people dead from this matriarch.
 
Maybe some people are a little annoyed that they have a character with the prestige score that Freddy has and the far flung allies Freedy has get subjected to what amounts to a religious shakedown. You're saying that Freddy is lucky to be alive and not torn apart by a mob? If the Manannites fuck this up, they will legitimately have managed to get the Dwarves and High Elves to agree on something for the first time in thousands of years. Revenge on the group responsible for the death of their close friend and ally. Neither group of which I will remind you bother with Manann worship.

Hell at which point is talk going to turn to the compensation the cult is officially offering every one else for their critical failure to control their fanatics as well? Because this is starting to feel like a circus to cover up their own failings by focusing on Ostland's. Sure, Freddy let loose his collection of barely controlled fanatics to chase down a crazed sub-cult that just finished a terror attack. As fitting for barely controlled fanatics they aplied the loosest possible definition of guilt and started chopping. So us getting left out of any kind of payment makes sense. But other then hunting down the sub-cult her self I've not seen anything about compensation for all the ships burned and people dead from this matriarch.
The compensation for the cult existing was the cultists dead and never bothering anyone again. The compensation for collateral was for other electors who didn't directly undermine the cults authority.

Prestige isn't an automatic score of if people will fuck with you or not. It determines how well known and respected you are. We are not well respected enough by the infamously insular cult of the sea god to get away with ordering psychopaths to butcher their faithful because we couldn't show the slightest bit of trust and just let them handle it.

Of course there would be consequences for the Manannites actually killing Freddy. And no they will not agree on anything, the Dawi will mobilize to attack the manannites (maybe, because lest you forget they trade with humans too and pissing off the organization all navies and trade runs through is not a gold idea even if you are only an allied polity.) But the only Asur that might help would be at the eternity stair in Ostland, the rest quite like the Manannites and Marienburg in particular so what's most likely to happen is a second conflict between the High Elves and Dawi, because we couldn't keep our dick in our pants and avoid over stepping our authority.
 
Chekists are canon, Alex's branch she created is the new part.
I know they're canon, my understanding was that they were created in recent (which in this case means when Franz is around) and Alex's thing is the first of its kind, which would likely evolve into the Chekists.

Of course I could be wrong, I can't find any dates on their wikia page Chekist

lol yeah no Beastmen in Brettonia cuz they took care of their forests like the Morghur the Shadowgave in the Forest of Arden!

Look, I'm not going to go line by line and refute what you have written as most are just factually wrong because you've clearly made up your mind regardless of what has actually been put pen to paper, but please if you are going to make assertions make ones more easily defendable then this kind of stuff. It seems like bad faith otherwise and I don't think that is your intention.
I mean there's beast men in Brettonia cause they're on Mallus my apologise if that didn't come across what I'm refering too is more their ability to survive/hide long term, compare


Just look at the difference in forests, Brettonia has two left and they're comparatively miniscule where as the empire is almost nothing but with a few execptions in the souther provices. Further more the fact that you're pointing to the fact that one of the two forests the Bretons can't get rid of as the Forest of the Ardens, where a beast-man demi god lives is in my view a pretty good example of how much they've been pushing in that regard (the other is the Forest of Chalons which is where the Fay Enchantress lives and is tiny.)

Hell don't take my word for it or the canonical maps, its been explored back as far as the knights of the grail that the Bretons take immense care to trim the forest of the Ardens down to reduce the foliage and cover for beast men to hide in and have active guards on their woods. Compare to the empire where so much of everything is untamed forest that the beast men have ample cover for their beast paths and the like.

So yeah, no I'm not making this stuff up, there is a genuine difference in the capacity of beast men to act in Brettonia just on those grounds and the fact that the home of a literal demigod is the only one that can resist vs the empire which doesn't even have that is frankly telling.

Of course there would be consequences for the Manannites actually killing Freddy.
Which torroar has expertly shown by emphasising how the last thing Magdha wants is to kill Freddy!

If she kills him this goes from Freddy doing penance to the cult mannan loosing vast amounts of empire influence, even just on the level of "holy shit one of the religions of the empire just killed an elector count....not for a heretical reason." That's a precedent no cult or elector count wants to set.

There's a reason even the most dickish of the mannanites want to begger us not kill us that's the impact of the prestige score, however Freddy also has an awful diplo score, which is the thing you need to talk people into not trying to kill you.
 
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You are ignoring content by this member.
I swear to the lord God if one more person comes in here talking about "how all of this is bullshit" and that "the Manannites should really be giving us reparations" I'm going to self-destruct.

We fucked up. We sent some of the most rabid, unhinged zealots of a rival cult onto a mostly peaceful institution because we wanted expedience over trust. Now we pay for it, when every other Elector Count and the fucking Emperor himself have censured us for it, when we've caused a massive mess at the Grand Conclave, when we may have crippled our navy and our trade fleets possibly forever or at least until Freddy dies.

And now, for some fucking reason that I can only assume to be total immersion in protagonist centered morality, people keep acting like we did nothing wrong. Innocent people were murdered for no reason other than Sigmarite paranoia! Innocent people who are extremely expensive to train and are valuable specialists dead because we couldn't just wait a while longer and let the cult sort itself out, like they've done consistently for nigh on two thousand and three hundred fucking years!

And this woman has been nothing but reasonable! She could have asked for our fucking legs and if we didn't give em we'd be ripped apart by a violent mob! Instead she offers us numerous ways to provide penance while ignoring all the overtly lethal ones. She is well within her rights to demand our fucking cock and balls on a platter but she didn't. Because she and Freddy fundemtnally what that same thing and she knows that. So she's trying to make this as not shit as possible without undermining her own authority.

I just don't get how anyone can look at the shit we pulled and decide "yeah we were totally in the right to try and take authority away from the religious head of a powerful cult by unleashing the rabid dogs of another more powerful and more churlish cult on the entire population of their clergy within our province." And then act surprised when the faithful of that cult and everyone with even an ounce of political acumen realized we made a colossal fuck up and told us about it. We may have gotten our rep back to neutral with the electors for pushing the Druchii angle, but we still have yet to do anything about the pissed off sea god and his equally mad followers, of which this city is full need I remind.

Whether we are in the right or wrong doesn't even matter because if we don't do something right now, we are going to have to fight out way our of a nominally allied city because of an angry mob while we know there are enemy interest active in the area. So instead why don't we appease that mob, ally with the woman who has decided to not call for our bankruptcy or death by drowning and try to make the best out of a shit situation?
I think you misunderstand that people feel as if they have been punished
The compensation for the cult existing was the cultists dead and never bothering anyone again. The compensation for collateral was for other electors who didn't directly undermine the cults authority.

Prestige isn't an automatic score of if people will fuck with you or not. It determines how well known and respected you are. We are not well respected enough by the infamously insular cult of the sea god to get away with ordering psychopaths to butcher their faithful because we couldn't show the slightest bit of trust and just let them handle it.

Of course there would be consequences for the Manannites actually killing Freddy. And no they will not agree on anything, the Dawi will mobilize to attack the manannites (maybe, because lest you forget they trade with humans too and pissing off the organization all navies and trade runs through is not a gold idea even if you are only an allied polity.) But the only Asur that might help would be at the eternity stair in Ostland, the rest quite like the Manannites and Marienburg in particular so what's most likely to happen is a second conflict between the High Elves and Dawi, because we couldn't keep our dick in our pants and avoid over stepping our authority.
I've been reading this awesome story as a guest for a long time now but what you said made me want to actually make an account to respond. I think I know why people were so up at arms. It's because they feel they were being punished for rolling a critical success especially when the 'reward' seems like it should be reserved for for a critical fail.
 
I know they're canon, my understanding was that they were created in recent (which in this case means when Franz is around) and Alex's thing is the first of its kind, which would likely evolve into the Chekists.

Of course I could be wrong, I can't find any dates on their wikia page Chekist


I mean there's beast men in Brettonia cause they're on Mallus my apologise if that didn't come across what I'm refering too is more their ability to survive/hide long term, compare


Just look at the difference in forests, Brettonia has two left and they're comparatively miniscule where as the empire is almost nothing but with a few execptions in the souther provices. Further more the fact that you're pointing to the fact that one of the two forests the Bretons can't get rid of as the Forest of the Ardens, where a beast-man demi god lives is in my view a pretty good example of how much they've been pushing in that regard (the other is the Forest of Chalons which is where the Fay Enchantress lives and is tiny.)

Hell don't take my word for it or the canonical maps, its been explored back as far as the knights of the grail that the Bretons take immense care to trim the forest of the Ardens down to reduce the foliage and cover for beast men to hide in and have active guards on their woods. Compare to the empire where so much of everything is untamed forest that the beast men have ample cover for their beast paths and the like.

So yeah, no I'm not making this stuff up, there is a genuine difference in the capacity of beast men to act in Brettonia just on those grounds and the fact that the home of a literal demigod is the only one that can resist vs the empire which doesn't even have that is frankly telling.


Which torroar has expertly shown by emphasising how the last thing Magdha wants is to kill Freddy!

If she kills him this goes from Freddy doing penance to the cult mannan loosing vast amounts of empire influence, even just on the level of "holy shit one of the religions of the empire just killed an elector count....not for a heretical reason." That's a precedent no cult or elector count wants to set.

There's a reason even the most dickish of the mannanites want to begger us not kill us that's the impact of the prestige score, however Freddy also has an awful diplo score, which is the thing you need to talk people into not trying to kill you.

If you wanna dump on the pre industrial Empire for not chopping down forests the size of countries that are filled with monsters that eat the peasants that do the logging fast enough and not having the fortune to have vast plains like Brettonia instead of hell forests then yeah sure ok I guess.
 
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I think you misunderstand that people feel as if they have been punished

I've been reading this awesome story as a guest for a long time now but what you said made me want to actually make an account to respond. I think I know why people were so up at arms. It's because they feel they were being punished for rolling a critical success especially when the 'reward' seems like it should be reserved for for a critical fail.
You know I can understand that point of view. But the issue is it doesn't take into account the context of the situation. Yes we rolled a big number and big numbers are good. But that big number was explicly tacked on to having raving lunatics ransack the priesthood of a separate cult not beholden to them. Rolling well only meant we actually accomplished our goals of killing all the Holders instead of looking like a fool when the witch hunters didn't do their jobs right. This option always had baggage we just didn't think of it at the time.
 
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You know I can understand that point of view. But the issue is it doesn't take into account the context if the situation. Yes we rolled a big number and big numbers are good. But that big number was explicly tacked on to having raving lunatics ransack the priesthood of a separate cult not beholden to them. Rolling well only meant we actually accomplished our goals of killing all the Holders instead of looking like a fool when the witch hunters didn't do their jobs right. This option always had baggage we just didn't think of it at the time.
I suppose, not that it really matters. To be completely honest I think we should just let the Mannans crucify Freddy. Maybe we can finally stop talking about it than. And to be honest as long as the author keeps writing about the Maanan problem than people are just going to keep bringing it up.
 
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