Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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Tasoli said:
Yes my point it is weird. Like there is at least 3 gods when it comes to war but Seas are monolithic in its gods? It makes no sense to me. But I suppose It is GW fault. They didn't really care for it since Empire is not a sea power.
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You can always try Mathlann. No promise though, Elves consider him a temperamental asshole too.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
Because there are differing views on how best to fight a war, there are not that many types of ocean!

Those are relatively easy to categorise.
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Not really the point. IRL every culture had its own sea god which is what should have happen rather than this. Meaning ocean might not change cultures would and would bring its own gods.
 
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I am opposed to burning any of our Greatships.

We built them with the assistance of the Imperial Stipend, which we presumably get so we can maintain a fleet to guard the Empire from attacks from the Sea of Claws.

Now gifting Greatships to the cult of Manaan can be justified. After all, they will most likely still be used to fight Norse, Druchii, pirates and assorted other enemies of the Empire. On the other hand just destroying them is kinda like throwing the Imperial Stipend into the sea.
 
It feels like a meme, but people only occasionally get killed by keelhauling, and they don't have magic items and an incredibly tough constitution. This is what Freddy does!

[] Freddy's Established Response To Performing Public Penances
- [] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
[] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
-[] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
--[] 3, including Oskar's Omen
[] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
-[] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]
 
Doomed Wombat said:
IIRC They exist, the issue is that they tend to be synchronised with Mannan if they get to big. AKA they become his children/have a connection to him, or are him under a different name.

And before that you have the thing of "X is the god of the Seas, but Y is the god of this sea in particular." So you appease both for extra insurance.


I sure as hell can, because the only way to make an elector count "grovel" in your words was for us to kill half the ones in our province and piss off the head of the entire cult!

They're normally too independent for them to do anything more than stop individual ships for about as long as it takes a different priest to override them, why are you acting like the cult is some monolithic entity that can just snap fingers and stop all trade? An abject impossibility when considering how every priest is off doing their own thing.

The only way its possible for them to do this sort of trade cut off is to piss off the only centralsied leader they have, or to give them someone they can all unite against.

Whoopsie we did both!
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So the cult is a benign fragmented association of different minded individuals… that operate a navy on par with an entire province of the empire, and sports surprisingly little dissenters when it comes to putting the blame of this entire thing on Fred shoulders.
NOt on the holder of the shores who were guilty
Not on the cult of sigmar (who is KNOWN for going overboard) and who executed tthose priests
NOT on maghda for FAILING to put her house in order
NO, all of them in lockstep, no dissenter in sight, on board for some barbaric "penance" in the name of their god.

yeah right.
 
Tasoli said:
Not really the point. IRL every culture had its own sea god which is what should have happen rather than this.
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Ah yes Posidon toooootally different from that guy Neptune (just as an example.)

Yeah, when dealing with gods of the sea (AKA the fastest mode of travel available) a pretty consistent level of universalism is to be expected because theirs is the cult that has the easiest time growing and keeping in contact with some kind of central authority.

There's a reason the cult can make their set up work, unlike the cult of Taal they can actually travel at speed. Similarly the reason Mannan's cult spread around everywhere first is because it got everywhere first and then as previously said absorbed all the other proto gods into itself in various fashions.
 
etincelle047 said:
So the cult is a benign fragmented association of different minded individuals… that operate a navy on par with an entire province of the empire, and sports surprisingly little dissenters when it comes to putting the blame of this entire thing on Fred shoulders.
NOt on the holder of the shores who were guilty
Not on the cult of sigmar (who is KNOWN for going overboard) and who executed tthose priests
NOT on maghda for FAILING to put her house in order
NO, all of them in lockstep, no dissenter in sight, on board for some barbaric "penance" in the name of their god.

yeah right.
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Most major cults operate militaries on similar scales yes.
They're dead and everyone hates them already. Also the blame is put on them, but ordering the monsters that are witch hunters on the innocents instead of waiting for the experts to turn up was Freddies fucking call!
They're unrepentent assholes and trying to get them would mean effectively declaring war on the cult of Sigmar.
SHE WASN'T EVEN IN CHARGE THEN! HOW THE HELL IS IT HER FAULT SHE WASN'T EVEN ON LAND!
Yes there are people who agree with us, we even got to see some of them when we were coming in, see though that's the issue, they're in the minority, the rest are pissed because we gave the order to hand their friends over to the muderous, violent, vile, torturers who happily slaughter people for any reason what so ever.

Tasoli said:
Poor one tough. How anbout that Njord and Ryujin eh?
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...Yeah no shit they're on the other side of the planet!

At least do this with some measure of even trying to be fair and honest.

Mannan's cult is consolidated to a single continent, and those two gods are not so simiar because as I said they're about as far away from one another as it possible to be, so no don't be pulling that.
 
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Tasoli said:
Poor one tough. How anbout that Njord and Ryujin eh?
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Stop strawmaning.

Right now.

Stop it.

You know as well as anyone who has ever looked at a map that the Scandinavian cultures and Japanese cultures had far less contact with the Greeks than the Romans. In the Old World, that being Brettonnia, the Empire, Tilea, Estalia, ect, there was much much more interaction. Oh, and the gods actually existed!

Edit: @Tasoli your argument would have actual merit if we had been talking about Nippon, Norsca or Cathay. We aren't. We're talking about the Old World (minus Norsca). Even then I suspect that the Norscans are influenced by Manann. Nippon and Cathay almost certainly have their own sea gods.
 
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Fanhunter696 said:
You have this the other way around... people only occasionally survived kneehauling, it was pretty much an execution in 95% of the times.
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IRL, maybe, but that's not how it was described here:
torroar said:
"On occasion, the sinner might well drown, bleed to death from their multitude of cuts, or be torn to shreds by creatures attracted by the blood spilled into the water," she pauses and studies your expression. "There are no sharks in Marienburg's waters," she adds as an afterthought. "We do not countenance Stromfel's ilk here, not in Manann's city."
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She doesn't appear to be lying. She in fact has every reason to not want to "start a war between Ostland and Manaan", and signalled that this was a good choice nevertheless. A 95% death rate literally makes no sense in this context, and so we must conclude that for whatever reason that's not accurate to this situation.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
IRL, maybe, but that's not how it was described here:

She doesn't appear to be lying. She in fact has every reason to not want to "start a war between Ostland and Manaan", and signalled that this was a good choice nevertheless. A 95% death rate literally makes no sense in this context, and so we must conclude that for whatever reason that's not accurate to this situation.
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Could be if you're genuinely in it to repent Manann tries to keep you alive as a show of respect or favor for actually going through with such a dangerous process. Could just be Mallus humans being tougher than IRL humans. Could even be the Cult using some kind of miracles or magic to heal the victims. Lots of possible causes!
 
Ok So Maghda is being pretty reasonable about this, not breaking our fleet, our bank or us, and she's speaking straight and trying to avert this being a bigger cock up.


Personally I'd be down with burning the Corsair ships, giving her a greatship or two, and taking a mid level keelhauling. A high end one is us trying too hard and likely to be seen as trying to hard by the faithful, especially since we'd need healing immediately afterwards to not die, which kind of undoes the message a little. Conversely a mid level hauling lets us take and keep our licks without immediate need to heal up unless things go VERY wrong. It'll hurt a whole fucking lot but pain is an old friend to Freddie. It also is less stressful on Natasha. Which is a concern for me, and frankly if something does go ploin shaped here, not being near death's door might be a good idea. It won't give as much placation as a harder one, but that will hopefully be offset by burning the dark elven ships and giving over some Greatships.
 
Tasoli said:
And bringing Romans and Greeks were not?
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I am at least 90% sure that was a joke. Or at the very least a tongue in cheek reference to how lazy some cultures get about God's and their creation.

Which was actually relevant to the discussion sonce once the cult of Manann became big enough, they really could just decide to slap a new coat of paint on their old sea god and just say he was Manann or one of his kids or one of his subordinates etc. Happens all the time in real life.
 
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Tasoli said:
And bringing Romans and Greeks were not?
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It was an accurate comparison to what Manann is. The interaction between the Empire/Brettonnia/Tilea/Estalia is much more comparable to the Greeks and Romans than the Greeks and the FUCKING JAPANESE!!!

If you aren't going to acknowledge the rest of my post, do yourself a favor and concede about you being wrong.
 
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