VOTE IS CLOSED

Admiral Valentina Sousa, Commander of Starfleet

Ah I neglected to add the legislated plan annual of 28 in my post. I get 175 impact too (updated that post).

However, you're missing 2 cost from Captain's Log - 2311.Q3.M3: [S'harien escapes damage - Orion Syndicate ship escapes, +2 Cost]

Can you also look over the crew income and other discrepancies I listed in my summary post?
Okay, updated as per the audit after it checked out.
 
Is the Romulan/ neutral zone problem even ours to fix? I wasn't aware that, despite our political will being used to do the Federation Diplomacy Service's job, we could make changes to important treaties like that.

Presumably if the implementation agency complains enough people notice.

The Cheron is going to single-handedly end the Syndicate at this rate.

At some point we should probably add a reference to Master of Orion to the ship's patch.
 
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The Cheron is going to single-handedly end the Syndicate at this rate.
This is part of why Uhura thanked Commander Amin for saving it. :)

Is the Romulan/ neutral zone problem even ours to fix? I wasn't aware that, despite our political will being used to do the Federation Diplomacy Service's job, we could make changes to important treaties like that.
It's not our problem to fix, but it's going to be OUR PROBLEM sooner or later if the Romulans decide we're encroaching on their space by trying to do an end-run around the Neutral Zone. They may be warming up to us, but they're starting a long way from 'friendly.'

So we can't behave as if we're blind to the issue and expect a good outcome from that

*10 years and one Rommie-Klingon war later*
I'm not going to promise it'll always be a border with the Klingons, but it isn't going to be going anywhere unless one side or the other of that war attacks us. Maybe not even then, knowing the Federation's predilections.

What stops the KBZ being renamed the Caldonia sector, but still being treated as a border sector, since you know, it is on the border with the Klingons?

As far as in knew Border zones were jsut specailized sectors that better enabled us to control the frontiers of the Federation. We can't move Caldonia, nor the border with the Klingons so Caldonia sector would have to be a border sector.

IIRC in canon the central part of what we have been calling the KBZ, was referred to as the Archanis sector. Centered on the research colony of Archanis IV

[BEGIN ZE WALL OF TEXT...]

@Simon_Jester you were asking why I would want a second UP facility. One of techs under Forward Defense is duplicating critical industry. Right now UP is our big shipyard and is likely the one that will be expanded the most since it tends to be cheaper and quicker to do so. In addition there seem to be some benefits for a large yard (some construction techniques work better, easier to defend). However if we go too much into UP and it gets hit there goes our industry, having a second designed yard that can be expanded like UP can ensures that opponents would have to hit two facilities to wipe our major shipyards. Of course having some yard at each member homeworld distributes it and makes strikes to cripple shipbuilding harder.
The problem, which I think you sort of sailed right past in here, is that two superyards plus the existing member world yard infrastructure is significantly more shipbuilding than Starfleet needs, or is capable of crewing, in the near future. If we do it any time soon we'll have an awful lot of berths sitting around doing nothing.

Furthermore, building a superyard is a huge project (think 100 political will or more), especially when any advisor the Federation Council talks to will point out that we can't actually crew all the construction that would come out of it... yet.

If the goal is to achieve a long term objective like "dispersion," then we should be focusing on member world yards. Those aren't quite as efficient for us as expanding Utopia Planitia, but they're close. So it doesn't just devour our budget uselessly, the way that buying our extra berths at places like San Francisco and Vulcan would. And it achieves your stated goal of reducing our vulnerability to a strike against Sol system, and making Starfleet less human-dominated.

Once we have minor shipyard nodes at most or all of our member worlds, AND a respectable-sized main yard at Utopia Planitia, then it might start making sense to talk about building a second superyard. But realistically it's going to be 2330 or something before that happens.

So basically my response to your post to me is that I've already thought of just about everything you're saying, it's not new, we've been discussing this for a long time. And the key point is simply that starting a second superyard on the scale of Utopia Planitia isn't really part of the solution to the problems you've identified, at least not any time soon.

Also, and you may not be aware of this, but we already have shipyards over Andoria and Tellar Prime, and one of the motivating factors behind that was all this you're saying about how we need to give more member races a sense of having a stake in the Federation. This isn't something anyone involved has been ignoring.

(The other reason is that it was politically easier to build new shipyard facilities around new planets than to expand existing ones. With Mars we finally have a facility that costs less to expand than it would to start a new yard from scratch... but it just happens to be in the same star system as one of our biggest member world yards, so we don't want to take things too far yet.)

Okay switching tracks onto Seruk and why I want to bump him up to a Vice Admiral. One reason is to expand his staff... All of that means the number of Starfleet personnel has exploded. And that means BeauPers needs more people to manage all of that, and some of them need the rank to correspond to their duties but that is restricted by the guy at the top.
The size of Starfleet has roughly doubled. This may mean we need twice as many people in Personnel (depending on the exact nature of how Personnel handles its duties). But to what extent does it mean we need higher-ranking people? A navy captain is the equivalent of an army colonel, and is generally considered high enough in rank to command a couple of thousand people. A commodore is considered capable of coordinating the actions of numerous captains.

Do we have specific reason to think there are any specific departments within Personnel that are so very large that it would require a rear admiral (the equivalent of a two-star general commanding a full division of army troops) to manage? Because that seems to be your argument.

Sometimes they need the standing, and for that matter it is likely that there is an officer in charge of personnel for major areas such as sectors, the academy and major fleet yards like the UP. Those officers would be Commodores but they need to give orders that impact Rear Admirals.
Yes. That happens in the military. A freshly recruited infantry private can give orders to a general, under some circumstances- say, if the general is trying to enter a military base through a gate guarded by the private. Under those circumstances the private is fully entitled to tell the general to do things in keeping with military protocol, like keeping hands away from weapons, showing identification, and so on.

A low-ranking Personnel officer, in their capacity as Personnel officer, may well give instructions that are binding on a higher-ranking officer, like "fill out your paperwork."
 
I can't imagine how big these shoes are for Sousa. This is the woman who could have been Admiral back in 2300, and she's seen her friend and colleague juggle all these impossible things while thinking "my god, that could have been me" all along. Well, now it is her.

Godspeed, Admiral.
 
You know... Starfleet is going to keep expanding, further and further, for the next probably-a-century. We're going to make more and more RA billets and VA billets as the UFP acquires members and Starfleet builds fleet resources... Is it possible that the Commander Starfleet after Sousa, or the one after that, will be a Fleet Admiral working with a team of full Admirals?
 
2312.Q1 - Admiral Valentina Sousa
2311.Q1

You are Valentina Sousa, the newest Commander of Starfleet.

An Admiral at last, the culmination of a career ambition that spanned back to your teenage years, stepping onto the shuttle that would take you from Rio de Janeiro to the Academy at San Francisco. You worked your backside off, graduating in the top percentile in 2272. Instinct told you that in a post-scarcity world, having the right political touch was even more important: most of what happens in the Federation today happens because of will, not need. So you learned to hob-nob. Socialising wasn't your most natural suite of skills, but you learned. How to win friends and influence people, how to work the system. As a result, you advanced quickly through the ranks, almost blindingly so.

Your inner drive never ceased.

Explorer Corps was the garden where you sowed your ambitions. It was also the nursery of your sense of poetry, honed over long hours sitting with the lights off, watching the wheeling of distant galaxies and nebula through the viewports of the various Constitutions you served on. Your time to reach command was second only to the great Kirk himself. Commodore was achieved before forty, after which you made the decision that became your sole great regret; you shifted your focus from the stars to your ambitions in San Francisco. All of your roles from that point onward were administrative.

Politicking and lobbying became second nature to you after a while. You fostered friends in the Council and the political establishment. As a Vice Admiral you saw the writing on the wall for Rogers and took a sabbatical to help make sure you didn't get caught up in the inevitable Council backlash. Unfortunately, Kahurangi must have had the same idea, and she was seen as less affiliated with the Rogers administration than you were. She got your dream job, costing you the hope of becoming the youngest commander of Starfleet in the process.

But no matter. You serve the Federation, now, then, always. You came back, were appointed head of Shipyard Operations. Your dynamism kept the hamsters running in their wheels as Shipyard Ops underwent its greatest ever period of expansion. As Kahurangi began to grow comfortable with you, you also became her strong right arm in the political sphere, the sword and shield of Starfleet. The Federation Diplomatic Service, normally the bane of Starfleet Commanders, spent the first decade of the 24th Century on the backfoot thanks to you. Where the Caitian Ratification debacle would normally sink the head of Starfleet, instead you claimed the head of Kahurangi's counterpart. You served her loyally, but now Kahurangi has returned to the green mountainsides of her homeland to fish and relax. The baton has passed to you, to lead Starfleet forward.

You are indomitable. Outwardly, you are a political animal. Inwardly, you have the soul of a poet.

And now you are an Admiral, Commander of Starfleet.

========================

Your first pressing task as you sift through the scores of well-wishes in your inbox is the matter of your own replacement, of course. Your tenure at Shipyard Operations had left a robust, highly competent outfit. But you need the right person in charge to see that it continues to be so. Of course, as a Vice Admiral billet, this is also a crucial decision because it potentially puts the person you choose on the path to one day becoming Admiral themselves.

[ ][SYO] Rear Admiral Patricia Chen
Human Female, 54 (Time in Rank, 10 years)
Current Posting: Director, Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
A flag career that has seen her handle a variety of roles, most recently in charge of the mighty Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards. If selected, bonus to parallel builds (ships of the same class built at the same yard with the same start date take -1Qtr per year to complete).

[ ][SYO] Rear Admiral Sirvk
Vulcan Male, 64 (Time in Rank, 10 years)
Current Posting: Director, 40 Eridani A Fleet Yards
Almost all of Sirvk's career has been in Shipyard Operations and he knows every component perfectly. Gain discount to SR costs of 10% (rounded down to nearest multiple of 5)

[ ][SYO] Rear Admiral Khirg glov Wurkon
Tellarite Male, 48 (Time in Rank, 5 years)
Current Posting: Director, Shipyard Industrial Command
An argumentative industrialist, Khirg has a penchant for motivation that borders on browbeating. Can pay 10pp/year to double production speed on one project.
 
Rushing individual ships isn't that useful to us, so I think glov Wurkon is contraindicated. Sirvk's ability is nice, but we're not THAT hard up for special resources, and I suspect our SR crunch will ease further in the medium term. Being able to decrease construction time, now, that is helpful.

I think this comes down to a race between Chen and Sirvk, and honestly I feel like a 25% reduction in build times done in parallel is worth more than a 10% reduction in cost.

[Cue Briefvoice screaming at the need to reshuffle projects in the spreadsheet... :p]

[X][SYO] Rear Admiral Patricia Chen

EDIT:



In the near future, Chen's bonus would incentivize us to actually:
1) Delay starting the next Excelsior at Utopia Planitia so we can begin two at the same time (but get both done sooner)
2) Sandwich in an extra Miranda refit at San Francisco Berth Two and start the two Rennies planned for San Francisco simultaneously.
 
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Initial impression:

[ X] [SYO] Rear Admiral Patricia Chen

We are lacking on free pp to use Wurkon. I believe we are more crew constrained than SR constrained currently.
-1 quarter per year = building Explorers in 12 quarters. Cruisers in 9 quarters. Escorts in 6 quarters.
Of course only applicable where we have multiple building slips of the same size ... - so really going to sit well in UP

EDIT:
From front page, our current shipyards:

San Francisco Fleet Yards - one (1) large 3mt Berth, two (2) small 1mt Berths
40 Eridani A Shipyards [Vulcan] - two (2) large 3mt Berths, two (2) small 1mt Berths
Ana Font Shipyard [Tellar] - one (1) large 2.5mt Berth, one (1) small 1mt Berth
Lor'Vela Orbital Construction Facility [Andor] - one (1) large 2.5mt Berth, one (1) small 1mt Berth
Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards [Sol] - three (3) large 3mt Berths, three (3) small 1mt Berths

So we can get parallel bonuses for Explorers at UP and Vulcan, current Cruiser and Escort designs at every site, assuming we use the 2.5 mt berths at Tellar and Andor as though they were only 1 mt.

A massive ship building time reduction WILL make any crew/resource shortfalls more of an issue though.

Will the time reduction also apply to refits?
 
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The problem, which I think you sort of sailed right past in here, is that two superyards plus the existing member world yard infrastructure is significantly more shipbuilding than Starfleet needs, or is capable of crewing, in the near future. If we do it any time soon we'll have an awful lot of berths sitting around doing nothing.

Furthermore, building a superyard is a huge project (think 100 political will or more), especially when any advisor the Federation Council talks to will point out that we can't actually crew all the construction that would come out of it... yet.

If the goal is to achieve a long term objective like "dispersion," then we should be focusing on member world yards. Those aren't quite as efficient for us as expanding Utopia Planitia, but they're close. So it doesn't just devour our budget uselessly, the way that buying our extra berths at places like San Francisco and Vulcan would. And it achieves your stated goal of reducing our vulnerability to a strike against Sol system, and making Starfleet less human-dominated.

Once we have minor shipyard nodes at most or all of our member worlds, AND a respectable-sized main yard at Utopia Planitia, then it might start making sense to talk about building a second superyard. But realistically it's going to be 2330 or something before that happens.

So basically my response to your post to me is that I've already thought of just about everything you're saying, it's not new, we've been discussing this for a long time. And the key point is simply that starting a second superyard on the scale of Utopia Planitia isn't really part of the solution to the problems you've identified, at least not any time soon.

Also, and you may not be aware of this, but we already have shipyards over Andoria and Tellar Prime, and one of the motivating factors behind that was all this you're saying about how we need to give more member races a sense of having a stake in the Federation. This isn't something anyone involved has been ignoring.

(The other reason is that it was politically easier to build new shipyard facilities around new planets than to expand existing ones. With Mars we finally have a facility that costs less to expand than it would to start a new yard from scratch... but it just happens to be in the same star system as one of our biggest member world yards, so we don't want to take things too far yet.)
I kind of started writing and once I did I kept going, which caused the wall of text, though I tried to break it up. But yes I was aware of the yards at the other member worlds, a big reason we pushed for them at the time was to avoid the human domination, it wasn't even an efficiency argument but something we considered important. Part of what I was writing was my own thought on how to reconcile what we see on screen with the universe and why Starfleet seemed so human dominated. Going back to multiple member worlds we also had arguments of trying to keep from putting too many humans, or any other race into roles, I think most of us think a one race dominated Starfleet is a problem. Thankfully Nash fell into place and getting an Andorian as captain of the Enterprise fit so well.

What I do think though is at some point we will need a second yard nexus, more so if we have to deal with things like flight time. This would be more important when we have a crisis, like the biophage or a war. It may be an extra month or more depending on damage to get back to the UP yards then a closer similar yard which is an extra month the ship is out of commission. Also for yard berths they may be more important once we get Excelsior refits since we have so many of those, or for use in general overhauls if that becomes a factor. And part of it is more narrative then mechanic driven since routine overhauls and other maintenance is not really something we have to track even though it does happen.

Personally I like Amarkia or Ferasa (if we get the Dawair as affiliates and later members) since it is not quite frontier but also a decent distance from Sol. Ferasa would be preferred since we have the civilian yard going up in Amarkia. Also I would like to have berths open at some point in case we need them for repairs. We keep on talking about reserving berths for that but keeping filling up the berths, a second option would be to have the new shipyard be put in place as a cruiser yard, maybe 1 or 2 3mt berths to repair any Explorers but mainly 2mt berths for the cruiser class after the Renissance. Actually, we started the UP project when we finished the biophage crisis thanks to the large influx of political will we gained from resolving it and moving out of crisis mode. If we get something similar at the end of the Syndicate crisis that may be a good time to start a similar project.

The size of Starfleet has roughly doubled. This may mean we need twice as many people in Personnel (depending on the exact nature of how Personnel handles its duties). But to what extent does it mean we need higher-ranking people? A navy captain is the equivalent of an army colonel, and is generally considered high enough in rank to command a couple of thousand people. A commodore is considered capable of coordinating the actions of numerous captains.

Do we have specific reason to think there are any specific departments within Personnel that are so very large that it would require a rear admiral (the equivalent of a two-star general commanding a full division of army troops) to manage? Because that seems to be your argument.

Yes. That happens in the military. A freshly recruited infantry private can give orders to a general, under some circumstances- say, if the general is trying to enter a military base through a gate guarded by the private. Under those circumstances the private is fully entitled to tell the general to do things in keeping with military protocol, like keeping hands away from weapons, showing identification, and so on.

A low-ranking Personnel officer, in their capacity as Personnel officer, may well give instructions that are binding on a higher-ranking officer, like "fill out your paperwork."
I think Starfleet has more than doubled. We are up to 10 Starbases but I am fairly sure we started with 4, 1 at each member world. Amarkia and Rigel came with starbases when they joined, Ferasa too I belive and we have had 3 constructed. We have also done three builds of additional outposts (CBZ, Amarkia and Tellar) increased our 3 and 2.5 mt berths 8 fold and doubled our 1mt berths. Crew gain per years increase by a factor of 4 or 5. And we have at least doubled the number of sectors.

All of that is more people to keep track off, which requires more staff to do the tracking and process work. And in the end a person can only have so many people reporting directly to them before it gets to be too much. BY pushing Seruk to Vice Admiral, we add another layer of command which allows him to delegate more of the work.
 
So according to the front page, Sousa's bonus is "More opportunities to cut deals with Council and at cheaper costs." Huh, mysterious. Also, remember to update Shey ch'Tharvasse to Vice Admiral (and vice admiral bonus) in the org table.

[X][SYO] Rear Admiral Patricia Chen

Oh hell yes, we're going to get our Rennies out nearly a year faster!
 
As much as I want to do an IDIC vote, neither of the non-human characters appears to have a terribly useful bonus...

...though this is going to make our crew problems so much worse.

[x][SYO] Rear Admiral Patricia Chen
 
[x][SYO] Rear Admiral Patricia Chen
Hahahaha holy shit it's the mass production doomfleet bonus. Sych up Excelsior/Ambassador builds and they only take 3 years. Sych Rennie builds and they take 2.25 years. Escorts in 1.5 years.

Gonna need to burn a LOT of PP on Starfleet Academy expansions to keep up. Special Resources won't be as much of a problem, not with the massive income boosts we've got coming.
 
[X][SYO] Rear Admiral Patricia Chen

To hell with the mechanics, Chen just deserves the promotion. And I wanna have her as Admiral sooner or later and this is a natural progression path.

But the sweet sweet bonus does help >_>
 
[X][SYO] Rear Admiral Patricia Chen

This is pretty much a no brainier. Chen is by far the superior choice. The problem however is we, or more likely Briefvoice, is going to have to rework the shipyard schedule and we'll likely lose a couple quarters, or more, of time here and there so we can actually benefit from Chen.

@OneirosTheWriter - Just to be clear by "same start date" do you mean the same year or the same quarter? I'm fairly sure it's the latter but I wanted to check.
 
Well, this is an easy vote. For both mechanical and narrative reasons.

[X][SYO] Rear Admiral Patricia Chen

A flag career that has seen her handle a variety of roles, most recently in charge of the mighty Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards. If selected, bonus to parallel builds (ships of the same class built at the same yard with the same start date take -1Qtr per year to complete).

@OneirosTheWriter, did you mean the same start year? Or the same start quarter?

The answer to this has very significant implications on how we schedule our builds.

edit: and ninja'd :sour:
 
Rushing individual ships isn't that useful to us, so I think glov Wurkon is contraindicated. Sirvk's ability is nice, but we're not THAT hard up for special resources, and I suspect our SR crunch will ease further in the medium term. Being able to decrease construction time, now, that is helpful.

I think this comes down to a race between Chen and Sirvk, and honestly I feel like a 25% reduction in build times done in parallel is worth more than a 10% reduction in cost.

[Cue Briefvoice screaming at the need to reshuffle projects in the spreadsheet... :p]

[X][SYO] Rear Admiral Patricia Chen

EDIT:



In the near future, Chen's bonus would incentivize us to actually:
1) Delay starting the next Excelsior at Utopia Planitia so we can begin two at the same time (but get both done sooner)
2) Sandwich in an extra Miranda refit at San Francisco Berth Two and start the two Rennies planned for San Francisco simultaneously.
Oh yeah agree Wurkon's ability is not so great for us, we never have the PP to spare, plus that is 4 quarters of work... we can get that or more out of Chen for free, like all the Renissances we are planning to start building at the same time. And even more if we do two explorers in tandem builds we can take full advantage of Chen's skill.

[X][SYO] Rear Admiral Patricia Chen
 
I kind of started writing and once I did I kept going, which caused the wall of text, though I tried to break it up. But yes I was aware of the yards at the other member worlds, a big reason we pushed for them at the time was to avoid the human domination, it wasn't even an efficiency argument but something we considered important. Part of what I was writing was my own thought on how to reconcile what we see on screen with the universe and why Starfleet seemed so human dominated. Going back to multiple member worlds we also had arguments of trying to keep from putting too many humans, or any other race into roles, I think most of us think a one race dominated Starfleet is a problem. Thankfully Nash fell into place and getting an Andorian as captain of the Enterprise fit so well.
Okay, well, let's try to focus a bit.

How about you think in terms of narrowing down to specific answers to specific questions, and try to keep the lengthy explanations down to a reasonable minimum, just for the sake of clearly communicating your priorities:

1) What do you think we should be focusing on in terms of berth construction for the next 5-10 years?

2) Do you have ideas for what we might be doing 20 or 30 years from now, but that you do not think are a good idea in the short to medium term?

3) Are there any other specific issues that you think we should be addressing? One point is that Chen's bonus incentivizes us to 'double up' berths at existing facilities... but Chen is probably only going to hold this position for another ten years or so, and her successor will presumably not have the same bonus. So we want to bear that in mind.

All of that is more people to keep track off, which requires more staff to do the tracking and process work. And in the end a person can only have so many people reporting directly to them before it gets to be too much. BY pushing Seruk to Vice Admiral, we add another layer of command which allows him to delegate more of the work.
I heard you the first time you said that.

What I'm getting at is: have we seen any particular reason to think that this is already happening to Seruk? Is Personnel getting so big that it requires several thousand people to operate, or so many separate commodore-level commands that a single rear admiral can't keep track of them all? If not, then spending political will to promote him may be premature.
 
By the way, the arguments made in the last few pages that Personnel should be made a VA position and Seruk be promoted seem to have some merit to me. We likely have the right Admiral to convert him from Old Guard to useful, too. The problem is if he remains Old Guard and eventually we do have to replace him.
 
[X][SYO] Rear Admiral Patricia Chen

This is pretty much a no brainier. Chen is by far the superior choice. The problem however is we, or more likely Briefvoice, is going to have to rework the shipyard schedule and we'll likely lose a couple quarters, or more, of time here and there so we can actually benefit from Chen.

@OneirosTheWriter - Just to be clear by "same start date" do you mean the same year or the same quarter? I'm fairly sure it's the latter but I wanted to check.
Quarter as well.

Same yard. Same class. Same start quarter.
 
I think people hope if they talk about it enough, @OneirosTheWriter will do some kind of interesting planned event involving extending the neutral zone. The length of which, let's remember, was defined entirely by @Nix when he drew the map in the first place.
The length followed from Beta Indi being approximately next to the middle of the neutral zone, but also only a few light years from Machado, Machado still being in the Andor sector, and the Andor sector being the most rimward of the home sectors. All this was already well established before I drew the first version of the map, and I drew the neutral zone as long as possible within those constraints.
 
[X][SYO] Rear Admiral Patricia Chen

This is OP, though our planner's sanity might take a hit.
 
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