Why would we want a starbase at Tipperary rather than Caldonia, built after the war breaks out and the Klingons aren't in the position to object?

He gave a reason in the post you quoted. To have the Starbase in position before the war, to help in tracking attempts by the Klingons to sneak through our territory and make a path to flank the Romulans.

I'm not sure how worried I am about that, but it's a valid concern.
 
So then.... what exactly is happening to non-Romulan sapient species in the area that the Romulans control? If they aren't making those races into minions, proxies, or other group... what are they doing to keep them from being a threat?

Are we talking a whole lot of genocides?

There might be some. The Romulans are not known as patient people and their cloaking tech gives them the option to appear unexpectedly in orbit around an unprepared homeworld. But I think the Romulans would be primarily concerned with making sure these species are unable to threaten them by controlling their access to interstellar travel. Some might be confined to their own planets and held hostage by Romulan orbital bombardment platforms. Some might be subjected to treaties which place extreme limits on their shipbuilding and the abilities of their ships as well as having to get approval for colonization projects.

Presumably the Romulans can command tribute in resources from these peoples if they need it, but they would offer no benefit in crew or research, and if they lack starships capable of threatening the Romulans they perforce lack starships capable of threatening ours.
 
So I'm not sure that Vice Admiral Heidi Eriksson has gotten even a single vote.

It's too bad. Of all of them, I see her as being the best at the bureaucratic management part of the job. Able to keep track in her head of a thousand different things and synthesize a great plan of action. (Which is why she's so good at Doctrine research.) Maybe she can't match Sousa's command of politics or ch'Vohlet's decisiveness, but she certainly has her own talents. If I weren't registering a protest vote for Sulu I'd... well I'd probably still vote for Sousa, but I figured someone would value Eriksson*.

*In my head she may be modeled just a little on Hillary Clinton.
 
Last edited:
I'm honestly not sure what's going to happen when the Caldonians join up. Their territory is right on the border with the Klingons, and we can't just abolish the KBZ... but every other member race so far has gotten a sector for themselves and it's kind of problematic if the Caldonians turn out to be an exception.

EDIT: To clarify, the Betazoids didn't get a NEW sector, and when they join, the Orions, the Gaeni, and at least one of the Indorions/Apiata won't either in all probability. But they were all part of a clearly defined 'sector' that was not a border zone. The Caldonians are unique in that their territory is clearly integral to a border zone that we can never really abolish.

He gave a reason in the post you quoted. To have the Starbase in position before the war, to help in tracking attempts by the Klingons to sneak through our territory and make a path to flank the Romulans.

I'm not sure how worried I am about that, but it's a valid concern.
The Romulans have already done it. The Klingons aren't as sneaky as the Romulans, but they're also more fractious- some particular admiral or Great House within the larger Empire might decide to seek glory and success by doing something the imperial government as a whole wouldn't have endorsed.

So I'm not sure that Vice Admiral Heidi Eriksson has gotten even a single vote.

It's too bad. Of all of them, I see her as being the best at the bureaucratic management part of the job. Able to keep track in her head of a thousand different things and synthesize a great plan of action. (Which is why she's so good at Doctrine research.) Maybe she can't match Sousa's command of politics or ch'Vohlet's decisiveness, but she certainly has her own talents. If I weren't registering a protest vote for Sulu I'd... well I'd probably still vote for Sousa, but I figured someone would value Eriksson*.

*In my head she may be modeled just a little on Hillary Clinton.
Eriksson's biggest problem is that she isn't much of a known quantity.

Sulu is of course spectacularly well known as a canon character, which did (does) a lot to explain his popularity.

Sousa is reasonably well known because Kahurangi kept thinking of her and mentioning her because Sousa was her "backup" when she had a political problem.

Patricia Chen is reasonably well known because she was like the second thing the thread voted on.

Aside from that, most of the admirals sort of... blur into one another. When we vote on them they're only described as blurbs. They don't have something like the Captain's Log posts to flesh them out unless Oneiros happens to write something featuring them. And the only person writing omakes with the admirals as regular characters is, well... you.

Eriksson isn't picking up votes because she doesn't have much name recognition. People don't associate her with her marvelous abilities, they associate her with "oh, right, operations!"

This is a fairly fundamental issue with the way the game works, though eventually it'll go away when people we originally saw in Captain's Logs start showing up in the upper echelons of Starfleet Command. You're doing more than anyone else to fix it because you actually DO write omakes featuring admirals on a regular basis. I can maybe do a little more with Commodore Leslie... but nothing is planned along those lines right now aside from what you just saw.
 
Last edited:
I'm honestly not sure what's going to happen when the Caldonians join up. Their territory is right on the border with the Klingons, and we can't just abolish the KBZ... but every other member race so far has gotten a sector for themselves and it's kind of problematic if the Caldonians turn out to be an exception.

On the other hand, we just saw Vega, a major human colony world (enough to have its own Councillor) moved into the Sydraxian Border Zone. The Sectors and border zones are just administrative divisions, after all.

The Betazoids didn't get a sector to themselves and it's clear the Orions won't, nor the Indorians. The Gaeni are officially in Sol Sector. I don't think it's going to be any big deal.
 
I put an edit in while you were replying.

To clarify, basically it's that so far every member homeworld was in SOME interior sector of our space. Even when we pick up a new affiliate who's on or near a border zone (e.g. the Apiata back in 2307, or the Seyek in 2310), we were able to be reasonably confident that their space will become part of an interior sector eventually, and that the border was going to move "past" them.

But that border with the Klingons isn't going anywhere. Ever. If the Caldonians are integrated into Andor sector 'behind' them, it opens up a hole in the KBZ. If they're integrated into the KBZ proper, it's going to at least put them in an unusual and odd situation. And if the KBZ is redesignated the "Caldonia Sector," it has mechanical consequences that are kind of rough on us because of the choice for Forward Defense.
 
I put an edit in while you were replying.

To clarify, basically it's that so far every member homeworld was in SOME interior sector of our space. Even when we pick up a new affiliate who's on or near a border zone (e.g. the Apiata back in 2307, or the Seyek in 2310), we were able to be reasonably confident that their space will become part of an interior sector eventually, and that the border was going to move "past" them.

But that border with the Klingons isn't going anywhere. Ever. If the Caldonians are integrated into Andor sector 'behind' them, it opens up a hole in the KBZ. If they're integrated into the KBZ proper, it's going to at least put them in an unusual and odd situation. And if the KBZ is redesignated the "Caldonia Sector," it has mechanical consequences that are kind of rough on us because of the choice for Forward Defense.

What stops the KBZ being renamed the Caldonia sector, but still being treated as a border sector, since you know, it is on the border with the Klingons?

As far as in knew Border zones were jsut specailized sectors that better enabled us to control the frontiers of the Federation. We can't move Caldonia, nor the border with the Klingons so Caldonia sector would have to be a border sector.


IIRC in canon the central part of what we have been calling the KBZ, was referred to as the Archanis sector. Centered on the research colony of Archanis IV
 
Last edited:
But that border with the Klingons isn't going anywhere. Ever. If the Caldonians are integrated into Andor sector 'behind' them, it opens up a hole in the KBZ. If they're integrated into the KBZ proper, it's going to at least put them in an unusual and odd situation. And if the KBZ is redesignated the "Caldonia Sector," it has mechanical consequences that are kind of rough on us because of the choice for Forward Defense.

Based on how it looks right now, they're just going to have their homeworld in the KBZ. If it were going to be redesignated, it would have happened when they became a +300 Affiliate, same as when our other sectors were created. You can call it 'unusual and odd' but.... ehhhh, it's not like it will affect the life of your average Caldonian, you know?
 
We have no other choice. In the name of prettier maps, we must join the Romulans in their war against the Klingon Empire and seize the Klingon systems on our border!

And I'm not just sayng that because @AKuz forced me to.
 
We have no other choice. In the name of prettier maps, we must join the Romulans in their war against the Klingon Empire and seize the Klingon systems on our border!

And I'm not just sayng that because @AKuz forced me to.

NONE OF YOU CAN PROVE ANYTHING

> : )

Speaking of Romulans... and Remans; the shitty EU indicates the Remans being another Vulcan subspecies, descended from the Telepathic Vulcans that survived the exodus. They were enslaved because something something telepathy. Or they're just a random slave species. Nothing is Canon Canon. (I personally lead towards "Random Vulcanoid slave species that the Romulans picked up on the trip", mild interbreeding from which gave us the Romulan ridges before the Remans completely became slaves and most of the species forced underground)

Anyway, Romulan foreign relations. In most cases things are going to run on client-patron lines, such as in the Duras case. While the Romulans are capable of generally co-operating with peer powers they are not going to ever recognize the sovereignty of a power they could knock over in an afternoon (Unless the target is backed by someone, or in a tricky place) there probably are a large number of subject peoples that are isolated to single worlds.

I suspect Romulans often act like good old fashioned European Empires and know about the conquering power of flags. "This is ours now." "Wow this sacred ground sure is mineral rich, GET TO DIGGING" "These are the best vacations spots, MOVE", "How dare you parade your barbaric traditions past my eyes, GET ROMULAN OR GET OUT" But due to the client-patron system, and the peculiar Romulan sense of honour, they are not utter bastards forever. That and, bias aside, a Race being totally evil forever with no grey areas or redeeming qualities is very suspect and not, I think, something in the Spirit of Trek. The Romulan system is oppressive, the Romulans are not themselves inherently oppressive bastards.

I suspect that on a individual or great family level, the Romulans reward service and loyalty, and often to take pains to make sure that the natives under their rule are generally well looked after. Though make no mistake the locals have no natural rights and Romulan goodwill is more like that that would be directed towards a favoured pet. If you want to look at how well treated Romulan subject peoples are, I'd look to our own 19th century. I suspect they play a lot of games to keep local factions at each others throats, divide and rule.

As far as our diplomacy with the RSE goes... we NEED to get an agreement about extending the Neutral Zone hammered out NOW. Otherwise the Romulans might start playing games... or getting nervous about why WE aren't talking to them about it (Are we planning to surround them?!?!?! INVAISION WITH THE KLINGONS?!?!?! SUPERWEAPONS!?!?!?) We should not give the Romulans time for paranoia to run rampant.
 
@Briefvoice are you factoring in the small crew increase we get from new affiliates, we have two or three species that may hit that point, I think we are up to .1 of each crew type which is not a lot but can add up over time.

@Simon_Jester you were asking why I would want a second UP facility. One of techs under Forward Defense is duplicating critical industry. Right now UP is our big shipyard and is likely the one that will be expanded the most since it tends to be cheaper and quicker to do so. In addition there seem to be some benefits for a large yard (some construction techniques work better, easier to defend). However if we go too much into UP and it gets hit there goes our industry, having a second designed yard that can be expanded like UP can ensures that opponents would have to hit two facilities to wipe our major shipyards. Of course having some yard at each member homeworld distributes it and makes strikes to cripple shipbuilding harder.
So summing up benefits of UP: less cost to expand, less time to expand yard, may benefit from construction techniques, also as a large facility it needs an Admiral of some level in charge which opens up more BeauShips positions in Starfleet for senior staff (will get to this point later)
Benefits of a second UP facility: harder for critical industry to be taken out, makes Starfleet less human dominated, also if positioned away from UP it provides a major area to repair large number of ships (also a benefit of having yards at each member world, less travel time and distance to get to a proper dock for repairs)

Now on to why I still want yards at the different member races despite thinking expanded UP as our primary (and later one of two or three primary yards as needs dictate) is it ensures we need to be hit at all our member worlds to lose production, makes it more likely a yard is close to repair our ships (and member ships and affiliate ships). And most importantly it makes Starfleet a part of the member worlds. If you watch the series what do you tend to see? Lots and lots of humans even in DS9 and Voyager when makeup and such should have been easier to do. After that the race that I see the most of is the Vulcans, the Andorians and other races are represented much less. This is also true when you consider all the admirals that we see, almost all of them are Human or Vulcan with another race every now and then. At the very least that is the impression I got from the show.

However if we look at other branches, such as diplomats, we see a much wider variety of races (likely since they come in for just an episode so are the alien of the week and costumer and makeup is not needed as much). For me though I think in universe there is another explanation. Location of Starfleet facilities most of the facilities are in Sol, the Academy, Starfleet Command, on Earth, Utopia Shipyards on Mars, the only other facilities I remember hearing about are some Science facilities on Vulcan (and even then a lot of science facilities are in Sol). Because of that at that time period humans and Vulcans buy into Starfleet more because they see Starfleet every day. Even if your parents may not be in Starfleet you likely have classmates who are in Starfleet. On top of that you have school trips to Starfleet facilities. And with Science and Ship building facilities there you can see different paths beyond serving on a starship. After all not everyone wants to serve on a starship, some people enjoy research, or engineering and in Sol and to an extent Vulcan you can actually see that being done by Starfleet. That makes it more real than just reading about it in class.

By spreading out Starbases and Shipyards to the various member worlds we work to alleviate that issue somewhat. A starbase has a lot of personnel and with a planet they can bring their families, families which will interact with the people on planet and make it so that they know someone in Starfleet, and may quite often have dinner or parties with someone from Starfleet. With shipyards there is a constant needs for workers and likely not all of them are part of Starfleet and a lot of the labor force would be local which brings them into contact with Starfleet personal everyday. It also can give them incentive to follow the stories of ships that they worked on,, especially if we keep building Excelsiors and other Explorers at each member world, some of which end up in the Explorer Corps. And that would be a big draw for a young kid, hearing about the adventures of the ship one or both of his parents worked on or maybe an aunt or uncle. And maybe that kid decides he wants to be part of that ship and joins Starfleet.

A lot of what we are doing is making Starfleet real and actual people to the different worlds, make it something they feel apart of to avoid the human dominance we see in the shows (DS9 was pretty bad about this at the end, watch the peace treaty ending the Dominion War and listen to the species they list off).


Okay switching tracks onto Seruk and why I want to bump him up to a Vice Admiral. One reason is to expand his staff. He was a Rear Admiral at game start but look at how big our fleet has expanded since then. We have now plans to have 8 explorers under construction at any given time, at game start we had 5 (one of which was the Cheron a Connie-A). We have a wave of Connie B-s under construction built a few Oberths a bunch of Centaurs and even some Mirandas and Constellations, in addition we have created three new starbases and taken over administration of the ones new members had. We have massively expanded our shipyards. Originally we had 1 3mt and 4 1mt berths. All of that means the number of Starfleet personnel has exploded. And that means BeauPers needs more people to manage all of that, and some of them need the rank to correspond to their duties but that is restricted by the guy at the top. Right now after Seruk anyone in BeauPers would be a Commodore. We now have 5 Vice Admirals (up from 4), 16 Rear Admirals listed on the front page (and Tactical likely has a few not listed, then there is Bones in charge of medical , also some in the design Bureau). What it means is that only one person has had Admiral experience at BeauPers, Seruk, and only one has Admiral level authority, Seruk once again. Sometimes they need the standing, and for that matter it is likely that there is an officer in charge of personnel for major areas such as sectors, the academy and major fleet yards like the UP. Those officers would be Commodores but they need to give orders that impact Rear Admirals. And if there needs to be a meeting where Admiral level decisions need to be made, either Seruk has to go himself or he sends a commodore who doesn't have the authority (or likely experience) since those with time in grade are more likely to be promoted and have to move to different departments.

By increasing personnel to Vice Admiral that makes it reflective of the workload that it has actually become, Seruk has done a great job there though so by bumping the position we could just give him a promotion and then get some of the people under him promotions into Rear Admiral (which makes more positions to keep the rat race going). Currently if someone in BeauPers wants to make admiral they need to leave the department, and it has been mentioned staying in grade too long can be a potential problem and can lead to retirement.
 
As far as our diplomacy with the RSE goes... we NEED to get an agreement about extending the Neutral Zone hammered out NOW. Otherwise the Romulans might start playing games... or getting nervous about why WE aren't talking to them about it (Are we planning to surround them?!?!?! INVAISION WITH THE KLINGONS?!?!?! SUPERWEAPONS!?!?!?) We should not give the Romulans time for paranoia to run rampant.

What I'd like to know immediately before opening overtures to extend the RNZ is where the Licore are in comparison to the current line, especially considering they've started off very close to the affiliation line.
 
So another though occurred to me, Cardassia moved into Bajor to secure the territory, well unless we roll low this year Indoria joins which is very close by, to them that may seem as our counter-move... which could drive them crazy. In addition with a decent roll we will get Holiani as affiliates, so not only do they see the Indorians join (who seem development to me) they here we picked up at least one new affiliate as well, completed a few more mining colonies and started at least two more (if they don't separate research colonies and we don't find any other spots next turn). Oh, and we did not need to use resources to deploy troops and ships to do it in there view. The Federation has to be driving their analysts nuts. And unlike in DS9 time (by the way this and other Treks are on Hulu and Netflix), they don't quite have the time and experience to realize this is who we really are.
 
I think with the Romulans the best bet is to agree to extend the line by X light years in the current direction, so to speak. I don't think a situation where we just take the current line and extend it into infinity would be a good idea because it turn out to be major unfair to one party down the road.
 
[X] Vice Admiral Valentina Sousa

I hadn't wanted to initially, but I am convinced that she's a Romulan spy!
 
So another though occurred to me, Cardassia moved into Bajor to secure the territory, well unless we roll low this year Indoria joins which is very close by, to them that may seem as our counter-move... which could drive them crazy. In addition with a decent roll we will get Holiani as affiliates, so not only do they see the Indorians join (who seem development to me) they here we picked up at least one new affiliate as well, completed a few more mining colonies and started at least two more (if they don't separate research colonies and we don't find any other spots next turn). Oh, and we did not need to use resources to deploy troops and ships to do it in there view. The Federation has to be driving their analysts nuts. And unlike in DS9 time (by the way this and other Treks are on Hulu and Netflix), they don't quite have the time and experience to realize this is who we really are.
You may be solving the wrong problem.
Finding out that we're actually open, friendly and welcoming in a setting of abundance isn't something that the Cardassian Union can really allow itself to grok.
Because if they do, then the foundation starts coming out from under.
If there are lots of friendly races, you don't need to be ready to shoot everyone you meet.
If openness doesn't lead to disaster, then security doesn't need to have overrides to everything and all the power it does.
If there are lots of resources if you know how to look then there's no need ration everything to maintain the power of the State.
And that's the power of the military, the secret police and the government (as much as these are separate things for the Cardassian Union) knocked down, if not out.

For some governments, finding out that the Federation isn't lying is like finding out that the people whose special effect had you intimidated aren't better with green screen then you are, they just filmed the guy who can fly instead.
 
Final half-hour to vote, people!
Quite one sided

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 884 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.6

[48] Vice Admiral Valentina Sousa
[9] Vice Admiral Rinias ch'Vohlet
[4] Vice Admiral Hikaru Sulu
[3] Vice Admiral Heidi Eriksson
[1] Vice Admiral Lachlan Ablett

Total No. of Voters: 65

@Briefvoice there were some votes for Heidi after all, just Sousa dominated the vote
 
Last edited:
Is the Romulan/ neutral zone problem even ours to fix? I wasn't aware that, despite our political will being used to do the Federation Diplomacy Service's job, we could make changes to important treaties like that.
 
Is the Romulan/ neutral zone problem even ours to fix? I wasn't aware that, despite our political will being used to do the Federation Diplomacy Service's job, we could make changes to important treaties like that.

I think people hope if they talk about it enough, @OneirosTheWriter will do some kind of interesting planned event involving extending the neutral zone. The length of which, let's remember, was defined entirely by @Nix when he drew the map in the first place.
 
Back
Top