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Well, subspace definitely smacked the Empire around pretty hard back in '93. So having them declare it an enemy of the Empire would actually... kind of make sense. 
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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Wasn't that the subject of an episode of Enterprise or something? A Klingon medical researcher found out that something a Great House or the Empire was doing wasn't safe, and realized he would go to Sto'Vo'Kor for being executed to exposing it.
I remember several episodes from TNG and DS9 that show members of Klingon society other than the military and it showed that they are typically very dedicated and competent in their fields. They do tend to view their area of profession in terms of conflict and battle, but this definitely does not seem to inhibit them. Any canon disregard for non-military pursuits comes directly from members of the military, who obviously picked their profession becasue they valued it most. Klingon scientists likely espouse that battles of the mind, and the victory over the unknown as being a worthier conflict than pure physical confrontation too.
Very much like how the Amarki were portrayed in an omake in this quest.
In fact culturally the Amarki seem to very similar to the Klingons, just the warrior aesthetic follows a different theme. For the Amarki it is chivalrous knights, whilst the Klingons have more of A Mongol/Viking vibe.
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I always figured that Klingons would be pretty good at debate in general.
Klingon versus Tellarite debates would be good, assuming the Klingon doesn't lose their temper and try to rip the Tellarite's lungs out...
Klingon versus Tellarite debates would be good, assuming the Klingon doesn't lose their temper and try to rip the Tellarite's lungs out...
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I always assumed that klingon scientists just aren't all that visible to outsiders. They might even belong to something like a monastic order.
Additionally, most of the individual aliens you see in Trek are either the leaders or the military of their respective civilizations. Those happen to be one and the same in the klingons' case, but the rest of their society is still offscreen.
Additionally, most of the individual aliens you see in Trek are either the leaders or the military of their respective civilizations. Those happen to be one and the same in the klingons' case, but the rest of their society is still offscreen.
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Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
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There's also the possibility the Klingons went full Goauld and just stole their technology from others. Their home world was raised by an interstellar species at one point, so it's possible that was how they obtained warp technology. Like the Mongols, they may have made most of their technological achievements by taking the best ideas from people they conquered.
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I, too, assumed that the klingons got their original tech base - and possibly the beginning of their empire - from the hurq. However, if they didn't make improvements of their own they wouldn't have been able to conquer any more advanced races.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
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War isn't just a question of who has the most advanced technology. By being more aggressive and devoting more of their resources to warfare the Klingons could overwhelm more advanced civilizations that didn't consider warfare a priority.
Now of course the Klingons would have made some improvements on captured tech to better suit their needs, but overall they may not have innovated all that much.
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That wouldn't explain the situation now. If they'd stolen technology then that was competitive in the 23rd or 24th century, they should have totally overrun the Alpha Quadrant, back in the 20th or 21st or 22nd centuries when everyone else's technology was less advanced. Conversely, if the technology they'd stolen was low-powered enough that the 21st and 22nd century Vulcans and Romulans could resist them, then they'd be hopelessly far behind by the present time.
The thing about the Goa'uld is that they existed in strategic isolation: they could afford to be stagnant because there was no competition. So the fact that they'd stolen all their technology and didn't understand it very well and couldn't create more... that wasn't a handicap for them, not really.
The Klingons are in a very different situation.
If you want an example of what happens when a species in Star Trek tries to steal technology without really understanding it... look at the Kazon or the Pakleds. Neither of which is a particularly impressive example. The Kazon have a lot of military power, but that's mainly because they were spread out over a large empire as slaves, so when they revolted, they inherited a very large territory and industrial base.
If the Klingons weren't capable of doing their own innovation and engineering, they'd be like the Kazon.
What interests me about the Klingon empire is how we don't see other species despite the amount of space they occupy.
I suspect what happens is that their "client species" are forbidden from making colonies, with that privilege reserved only for the Klingons. So they have a number of species in their empire restricted to only one world (or maybe 1 or 2 additional if they had well-established colonies before the Klingons found them). Nor are they allowed space travel.
I suspect what happens is that their "client species" are forbidden from making colonies, with that privilege reserved only for the Klingons. So they have a number of species in their empire restricted to only one world (or maybe 1 or 2 additional if they had well-established colonies before the Klingons found them). Nor are they allowed space travel.
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
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How about the Romulans?
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There are the Remans (whose origins are ambiguous enough that 'client species taken over by the Romulans' is reasonably likely).
But aside from that, the Romulans are a much more secretive polity and we see less of them in general, so it's less surprising that we never see anyone else as their subjects.
But aside from that, the Romulans are a much more secretive polity and we see less of them in general, so it's less surprising that we never see anyone else as their subjects.
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My headcanon is that the Klingons basically were like the Kazon immediately after overthrowing the Hurq. It took them a generation or two to coalesce into an empire, with the Great Houses being descendents of the post-rebellion warlords, and then a bit longer for their society to become stable enough for education, industry, and science to flourish, and they started making real improvements to the tech they inherited from the Hurq. The warrior-aristocrat lineages retained some degree of power throughout this era though, and made a major comeback in the wake of the Praxis disaster.
This also implies that the Kazons might eventually form a society like the Klingon Empire themselves.
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Yeah, that was my notion too. It explains how the Klingons could overthrow the Hurq (who presumably had good enough technology to be star conquerors) in the fourteenth century or something like that, and yet not take over the entire Alpha Quadrant single-handedly.
It also dovetails with my headcanon expressed earlier in this thread, that the Klingons did genetic experimentation in the 2100s*, and that this was one of the catalysts for their subsequent growth and expansion. The combination of average IQs going up by, say, 10-15 points AND the pragmatist TOS-era government was enough to push the Klingons over the edge from "pretty rough customers, but stagnant" into "expanding galactic power strong enough to singlehandedly stand up to a large federation of other species."
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*NOT necessarily related in any way to human Augments.
It also dovetails with my headcanon expressed earlier in this thread, that the Klingons did genetic experimentation in the 2100s*, and that this was one of the catalysts for their subsequent growth and expansion. The combination of average IQs going up by, say, 10-15 points AND the pragmatist TOS-era government was enough to push the Klingons over the edge from "pretty rough customers, but stagnant" into "expanding galactic power strong enough to singlehandedly stand up to a large federation of other species."
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*NOT necessarily related in any way to human Augments.
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- Patriarchova
Eh...if the klingons were smart enough to perform successful genetic augmentation on themselves, then they were smart enough to not need it. Social factors are sufficient to account for the transition.
Night
Widow Null
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I ran with an idea that as a warrior society the Klingons actually had effective antibiotics before they had gunpowder. Medical science is relatively easier to advance at early levels of technology than chemistry, and the value of saving soldiers to fight again is obvious. This early difference stamped itself into the culture of the Empire and medicine is viewed with great respect; the right man in the right place to win a battle is only there because a doctor healed his wounds. DS9 touched on this when Martok spoke about how Worf's rounds of single combat with the Jem'Hadar during In Purgatory's Shadow/By Inferno's Light were worthy of song and there would be at least a verse to commemorate Bashir's efforts in keeping Worf able to fight.
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Another fan theory of mine:
When the Hurq conquered them, the klingons were divided into numerous iron-age societies. During the period of enslavement, the Path of Kahless (which had formerly been the national cult of a single kingdom on Qonos) spread like wildfire as the traditional barriers to cultural and population diffusion were removed and a religion that believes in killing the gods turned out to be veeeeeery appealing to a people being oppressed by superior invaders from the sky. The Path of Kahless became the rallying point of the rebellion, and eventually the official state religion of the Klingon Empire.
When the Hurq conquered them, the klingons were divided into numerous iron-age societies. During the period of enslavement, the Path of Kahless (which had formerly been the national cult of a single kingdom on Qonos) spread like wildfire as the traditional barriers to cultural and population diffusion were removed and a religion that believes in killing the gods turned out to be veeeeeery appealing to a people being oppressed by superior invaders from the sky. The Path of Kahless became the rallying point of the rebellion, and eventually the official state religion of the Klingon Empire.
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It's too bad the Kazon angle wasn't considered when thinking of how to explain the differences between the Klingons of TOS and TNG. Having them as defeated second class citizens who eventually took control of the empire, where everyone in the empire was considered a Klingon (just like I'm an American with European ancestry). Frontier ships were staffed by the Kazon, such as in the original series. Or, they used politics to actually take over most of the military of the empire for nearly a generation, until the Praxis event, where they lost most of their power.
Edit: Or, being a 'Klingon' translates to 'Warrior of the Empire', and any race that serves counts as one.
Edit: Or, being a 'Klingon' translates to 'Warrior of the Empire', and any race that serves counts as one.
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I think you meant to say Hurq.
If we really have to acknowledge the klingons' makeup upgrade from TOS to TNG, then I suppose Klingon/Hurq hybridization makes a bit more sense than the ENT explanation.
EDIT: as a point of order, we *have* seen Klingon subject races. In TUC, the other prisoners at Rura Penthe were mostly species we haven't seen before or since. The Klingons probably don't let them keep fleets of their own, or if they do they don't permit them to venture outside their home sectors.
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I have to admit, the Klingons and Romulans having such large star empires that they can threaten the Federation on their own has always been a bit of a head-scratcher for me. I mean, they're probably highly aggressive in annexing systems and building colonies, sure... but on the other hand, the Federation had a large number of races and all of THEM were most likely building colonies as well. Some admittedly more than others - the Vulcans or Risans don't strike me as particularly expansionist, for example - but still.
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No, it makes sense. The Federation was founded by a group of minor powers so that they could play with the big boys.
Like, imagine if the Seyek, Qloath, Indorians, and Dawiar decided that instead of becoming Federation affiliates or Cardassian clients, they'd unite to become a new great power. That's more or less how the Federation came into being.
Meanwhile, the Apiata are an example of a minor power that's just on the brink of being strong enough to act as a one-species superpower like the Cardassians, Klingons, or Romulans. Had they been just a little bit bigger and more unified by the time the Federation and Cardassians met them, the Apiata might well have begun picking up clients of their own and we'd be interacting with them as peers.
Basically, there's two ways a great power can be born. A minor power can grow stronger and stronger until it becomes a great power, or several minor powers can band together and do it the quick way. Due to the social and political complexity of creating an equitable union of previously autonomous states, the former is much more common.
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KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
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Just want to say, I'm still working my way through this Quest, but it is amazing. All of you, not just @OneirosTheWriter but everyone's who's been contributing thus far, well done. I'm thoroughly enjoying this read-binge (I'm on page....447 right now). It's a bit overwhelming, how big this Quest/thread is, but still. Good show, one and all.
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We have more posts than BAHHSSCQ so... Have fun!