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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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[X][RIGEL] Courageous

[x][TMIR] Get a report on non-Federation Cardassian rival states
The enemy of my enemy, is my enemy's enemy. But gosh it'd be nice to know if there was a chance of them being distracted.

[x][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report

[x][ROM] Romulan Daljerra Cruiser Report

[x][REPORT] The relationship between the Sydraxians and the Gretarians.
[x][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[x][REPORT] Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?
 
Briefvoice said:
I don't want a report on Cardassian in-fighting because I don't think it'll tell us anything useful. I'd rather find out how their ships are distributed and if they have any threats on their other flanks. Are we really all they have to deal with?

Also, can we....

Please

Please

Please

Finally get a god damn fleet strength report for the Romulans or the Klingons? Every year we get the chance and every year we scratch our butts and decide it really wasn't that important after all. I want to know how bad this war is going to be. I want to know what they could really throw at the Federation if relations break down.

Can we please make this the year that we don't decide the precise details on some ship model matter more than knowing how many ships they have? Please. If you don't agree with me on anything else, do it on this. In a decade we have never requested this very basic information, not once.
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Okayyy.... I'll change to Romulan fleet strength. Just for you.

(Also: This is why peeps shouldn't just vote plan AKuz, unless you implicitly trust me to make good decisions. Even when I change my mind)
 
Shipbuilding report tells you what is currently under construction.
Shipyard report tells you what berths they have and where.

Yes, you will be able to detail more Oberths in the future to Starfleet Intel, but you need to keep more on general duties than on Starfleet Intelligence duties.
 
@NervosBelli, it wasn't just the one incident; Courageous has been involved in a LOT of pro-Rigellian events. It's them, or Miracht, but maybe even having both would be a good idea! Historically, ratification events have tended to be enough trouble that sending more than one explorer is arguably a good idea. Plus, McAdams is a combat expert, and Mbeki is a diplomacy expert. That's a good combination.

On the other hand, nocarename is right about the Sydraxians having a grudge with Miracht. So as a preliminary I'm picking Courageous. Adding a second ship might be a good idea, though.

Also, I'm worried that Briefvoice is about to cry if I don't vote for the Romulan Fleet Strength Report, too... and he does have a point. The Romulan cruiser is presumably not THAT much more badass than other known cruiser types.


[X][RIGEL] Courageous

[X][TMIR] Get a report on Cardassian political in-fighting
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] The relationship between the Sydraxians and the Gretarians.
[X][REPORT] Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?
 
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@OneirosTheWriter - What happened to that the Syndicate report mentioned here:
OneirosTheWriter said:
lbmaian said:
OneirosTheWriter said:
With this you are now entering a new stage of the conflict with the Orion Syndicate. Small monthly Syndicate turns will occur, and you will get progress reports of the events. Orion-related reports for the 2310.Q4 Starfleet Intelligence turn will be pushed into a separate Status Post.
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Oh that's good. Does this mean that we shouldn't request any Syndicate intel reports in the Q2 steering committees?
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I'll be ear-marking one of them as Starfleet Intel puts more resources to the Syndicate, and it will become your progress report.
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Taking a second (and third) look at the choices...

[x][RIGEL] Courageous
[x][TMIR] Get a report on Cardassian Infrastructure
[x][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[x][ROM] Romulan Shipyard Report
[x][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[x][REPORT] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?
 
[X][RIGEL] Courageous

[x][TMIR] Get a report on Cardassian political in-fighting
[x][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[x][ROM] Romulan Daljerra Cruiser Report
[x][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength
[x][REPORT] The relationship between the Sydraxians and the Gretarians.
[x][REPORT] Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?

Much of this is for the same reasons other people have posted.

OneirosTheWriter said:
Yes, you will be able to detail more Oberths in the future to Starfleet Intel, but you need to keep more on general duties than on Starfleet Intelligence duties.
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Ok. This is screaming "Build more Oberths" to me. We always need more intel then we can get and what we have we need to keep repeating to see if something has changed. Let's plan to build 3-4 more Oberths even though they are not as good as Excelsiors or whatever our eventual new science ship will be. Not for the Science, not for events but for more intel options.
 
@UbeOne, this sounds like a dangerously unbalanced vote. You're not giving us any information on the Syndicate, or on the Sydraxian frontier- the two areas where we are actively engaged in combat and where Federation personnel are being killed.

(Epic literacy fail on my part)

I'd like to balance the information we need on the great powers with information on the small wars where our people are actually in mortal danger right now if we don't at least get a clue what's going on.

@JesseJ, the only problem with that idea is crew. Building four Oberths costs sixteen techs, and I don't think we really have sixteen spare techs kicking around. Canceling one Excelsior would only free up about five or six.
 
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UberJJK said:
@OneirosTheWriter - What happened to that the Syndicate report mentioned here:
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Oh, you're right, I forgot to deduct one of your reports. Okay, I won't invalidate all the current votes, so we'll stick with three reports for now.

By and large, those Orion reports are going directly to Rear Admiral Uhura and the monthly task force reports, though.
 
Simon_Jester said:
@UbeOne, this sounds like a dangerously unbalanced vote. You're not giving us any information on the Syndicate, or on the Sydraxian frontier- the two areas where we are actively engaged in combat and where Federation personnel are being killed.

I'd like to balance the information we need on the great powers with information on the small wars where our people are actually in mortal danger right now if we don't at least get a clue what's going on.

@JesseJ, the only problem with that idea is crew. Building four Oberths costs sixteen techs, and I don't think we really have sixteen spare techs kicking around. Canceling one Excelsior would only free up about five or six.
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My vote already looks for info on Syndicate strength. I'm not sure what to look for Sydraxian-wise.
 
Agreed with @Briefvoice, fleet distribution will tell us a lot both about Cardassian enemies and about their reaction to our diplomatic moves and about their reaction to the Apiata's recent attack. Cardassian infighting will be less useful at the time these reports are delivered, which is in several quarters from now.

The shipyard report for the Romulans will be more informative than shipbuilding or ship analysis. We don't expect to fight the Romulans within the next few years, so it's important to take this opportunity to understand them economically.

For the other three reports I've chosen Klingon Fleet Strength and Romulan Fleet Strength, because those are both useful to compare. And of course the Syndicate report is compulsory. I like the idea of Yrillian diplomatic posture, but it's something of a gamble - may be handy, may be useless, may also be handy but circumstances don't let us do anything with it.

[X][TMIR] Get a report on Cardassian Fleet Distribution
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Shipyard Report

[X][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[x][REPORT] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[x][REPORT] Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?


[x][RIGEL] Courageous



e: Oh, and for people not voting for the Romulan Shipyard Report... economic data is perhaps one of the most important sets of data to gather while at peace, both Shipyard and Shipbuilding reports. It lets us plot long-term where their fleets will be, lets us direct our own builds, our prototypes, our economic focus. As the head of Starfleet it is perhaps the most important piece of data unless we are gearing up for a fight in the short term. Most other reports become obsolete quite quickly, but economic data is not so easily changed.
 
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I will also note, @OneirosTheWriter, that it is actually quite important for us to get all this detailed intel we're gathering on the Syndicate from Office 8 and 24 and so on...

And actually synthesize it into a 'big picture' of how much capability the Syndicate has, how aggressively they're using it, how much of a pounding they can take, and so on. It's important for the decision-makers (in-game, that's the admiralty and the Council; in real life it's us) to have a good grasp of the big picture.

Right now we're in danger of getting stuck in the same problem that LBJ and his cabinet had dealing with Vietnam- of getting so obsessed with minutiae of how many troops are in which villages and where the airstrikes are being targeted, that we're not seeing the forest for the trees.

We really need a general "how much of this crud can they take" report to give us a sense of the overall status of our campaign and how long it is likely to last.

@UbeOne, you're right, I committed epic literacy fail. Editing accordingly.
 
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JesseJ said:
[X][RIGEL] Courageous

[x][TMIR] Get a report on Cardassian political in-fighting
[x][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[x][ROM] Romulan Daljerra Cruiser Report
[x][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength
[x][REPORT] The relationship between the Sydraxians and the Gretarians.
[x][REPORT] Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?

Much of this is for the same reasons other people have posted.



Ok. This is screaming "Build more Oberths" to me. We always need more intel then we can get and what we have we need to keep repeating to see if something has changed. Let's plan to build 3-4 more Oberths even though they are not as good as Excelsiors or whatever our eventual new science ship will be. Not for the Science, not for events but for more intel options.
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Post # 20,001, btw - congrats!
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
As the head of Starfleet it is perhaps the most important piece of data unless we are gearing up for a fight in the short term. Most other reports become obsolete quite quickly, but economic data is not so easily changed.
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Realistically it might be even then; we know diddly about Romulan Space. Of the two ways of winning a war, destroying your enemy's ability to fight is generally more reliable.

On the other hand, as you said, we don't plan to fight them any time soon, and the only people they're likely planning to fight are the Klingons. We have years to do it.
 
[X][TMIR] Get a report on Cardassian Fleet Distribution
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Shipyard Report

[X][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[x][REPORT] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[x][REPORT] Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?


[x][RIGEL] Courageous
 
[X][TMIR] Cardassian Fleet Distribution

[X][CARD] Cardassian Infrastructure Report

[X][ROM] Romulan Shipyard Report

[X][REPORT] Gretarian-Sydraxian Relationship
[x][REPORT] Romulan Fleet Strength
[x][REPORT] Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?


[x][RIGEL] Miracht

Basically, infrastructure and Gretatians.
 
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[X][RIGEL] Courageous

[X][TMIR] Get a report on Cardassian political in-fighting
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] The relationship between the Sydraxians and the Gretarians.
[X][REPORT] Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?
 
Cardassian Fleet Distribution or Cardassian Infrastructure? I'm leaning more towards the latter, since that's a weak point that we could exploit if we have to.
 
I still think getting some insight into their politics would be good.

So far, the Cardassians have been a 'black box' to us. We don't really know why they do what they do. Or how far they're prepared to push us. Some information about the way their leadership thinks, or what kind of thinking is likely to characterize the leaders who will be coming out on top, could be very valuable.
 
[X][TMIR] Get a report on Cardassian public sentiment and broadcasting

[X][CARD] Cardassian Infrastructure Report

[X][ROM] Romulan Shipyard Report

[X][REPORT] Gretarian-Sydraxian Relationship
[x][REPORT] Romulan Fleet Strength
[x][REPORT] Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?

[x][RIGEL] Miracht
 
Simon_Jester said:
@JesseJ, the only problem with that idea is crew. Building four Oberths costs sixteen techs, and I don't think we really have sixteen spare techs kicking around. Canceling one Excelsior would only free up about five or six.
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True, if we tried to build them all at the same time. Looking at the shipbuilding spreadsheet if we started 1-2 in the next shipyard ops it would replace some Miranda refits and/or a new Centaur-A and would cost us only 2-8 techs. In 2313 when they would be crewed we have 11-18 techs in the pool. If we started 1-2 more after that we'd have 16-27 techs when they crewed in 2315.

None of that takes into account the new berths we've talking about, casualties and academy expansions but I don't think techs are enough of a factor to stop us from getting a few more Oberths. There might be other reasons not to build Oberths but given how much intel we need and haven't been able to get building more and assigning them to the intelligence office makes a lot of sense to me.
OneirosTheWriter said:
Post # 20,001, btw - congrats!
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Thanks for making a quest so great that we have more then 20 000 good things to say about it.
 
Jesse, the problem is that building those Oberths will rapidly whittle our tech surplus down to nothing. Most of our ships are fairly 'balanced' in that they consume roughly equal quantities of all three types of crew. But while we do produce enough extra techs that we could manage an Oberth every couple of years, it's going to become a problem if we try to build them in large numbers in a hurry.

There are indications that the new ship design process being worked on may rebalance science vessel crew requirements into something more reasonable. If so, that would make it a lot more practical for us to do as you say, and we may even be able to do it fairly soon! But I don't think right now is the best time, especially since we're in the middle of building a large modern cruiser force and upgrading our pre-2300 ships to perform more adequately by modern standards.
 
[X][RIGEL] Courageous

[X][TMIR] Get a report on Cardassian political in-fighting
[X][CARD] Cardassian Infrastructure Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Shipyard Report

[X][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Romulan Fleet Strength
[X][REPORT] Syndicate strength and how much Impact do we need?

I'm curious about the factions in Cardassian space, and how long the bickering might last, which is hopefully what the first report will give. Everything else is then infrastructure or Syndicate, which is all useful.

Briefvoice said:
I am really curious if they can concentrate entirely on us, or if there is some other power to their "west" that they are guarding against. Let's see if they're posting ships to guard their other side.
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Can we wait a year on this? I spent the time to track down information on canon species we probably heard about but haven't met, and I'm writing a presentation and overview on them, but it probably won't be done in time for this vote. I'd like to give @OneirosTheWriter time to digest it and decide how much is true and how much is misinterpretation before he decides too much of the rest of the map.

If it does win, the species spin-ward of us probably include these canon groups:
  • Trill
  • Ferengi Alliance
  • Breen Confederacy
  • Tzenkethi Coalition
  • Talarian Republic
All but the Trill would probably require their own garrison. Also, my planned excuse for why some of them might not exist – especially the last two – is that Cardassians are lying about them as a tool to scare species into joining them. Remember that they might also be garrisoning against stuff that doesn't exist, but which they claim does.

For completeness, it might also include:
  • Sheliak Corporate (probably rim-ward)
  • Tholians
  • Gorn
But most of those are because I'm not entirely sure where they are. There are a few others who could be somewhere near by, but those are the primarily ones that @OneirosTheWriter should keep in mind.
 
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