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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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That would be a huge pain to deal with, especially since it would mean pretty much restarting the vote from scratch.
 
Night said:
Well, we could always do individualized votes rather than planned votes, but...
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That doesn't really work with this kind of system, because it isn't an either-or choice, there's an almost unlimited number of things to choose from and limited pp to spend. Plan votes are the only way to guarantee a winning vote that is actually implementable.
 
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Counsellors, Kadeshi and Computing

I feel like pushing for bajor is interrupting enemy while they are making a mistake. Lets not do it.
 
Ok, let's ask Oneiros.

@OneirosTheWriter, given our greatly expanded knowledge on the Cardassians following Grey October, how risky does Starfleet Intelligence think doing a diplomatic push on the Dawiar and/or the Bajorans is? Do they think it might cause the Cardassians to end their self-imposed isolation earlier?
 
@Derek58, you do realize the first thing he's gonna do when he shows up is lock the vote because the debate's been running for almost twenty-four hours?

Also...

[Sighs]

I miss Briefvoice's plan. That said, I changed my mind; ignoring the need for the Sydraxian Border Zone is legitimately less bad than interrupting the Cardassians while they're making a mistake.

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Counsellors, Kadeshi and Computing
 
Trying to get closer to the Bajorans may or may not be a bad idea, but I do want to note that we already did a diplomatic push on them once and the Cardassians didn't do dick. No reaction, nothing. Nor to our pushes on the Dawiar. Nor to our pushes on the Yrillians.

Now maybe the threshold for freak-out is reaching 100 and having them becoming a Federation affiliate... or not. I'm still not sure what 100 means diplomatically or what extent it means formal treaties or if affiliate status will actually be blocked if they are already Cardassian affiliates. It's new territory, and we're going to find out sooner or later. If not on the Bajorans than on the Dawiar or the Yrillians. No one is complaining about pushing them, but it's the same situation.

However I think that if there is a Cardassian freak-out it is much more likely to be directed at the Bajorans/Dawiar/Yrillians than at the Federation. I mean does it make more sense to go to war with us, or to orbit a few cruisers around the home world of their wayward affiliate, shoot some politicians who seem too pro-Federation and "suggest" that maybe they should stop getting so cozy with us? And *then* we have to see how the Federation Council wants to respond.

Brutalizing the Bajorans into not talking to the Federation anymore is a lot less work than brutalizing the Federation into not talking to the Bajorans, and just as likely to be effective. Heck, maybe they'll decide that occupying the Bajorans is the only way to stay safe....
 
Briefvoice said:
Trying to get closer to the Bajorans may or may not be a bad idea, but I do want to note that we already did a diplomatic push on them once and the Cardassians didn't do dick. No reaction, nothing. Nor to our pushes on the Dawiar. Nor to our pushes on the Yrillians.

Now maybe the threshold for freak-out is reaching 100 and having them becoming a Federation affiliate... or not. I'm still not sure what 100 means diplomatically or what extent it means formal treaties or if affiliate status will actually be blocked if they are already Cardassian affiliates. It's new territory, and we're going to find out sooner or later. If not on the Bajorans than on the Dawiar or the Yrillians. No one is complaining about pushing them, but it's the same situation.

However I think that if there is a Cardassian freak-out it is much more likely to be directed at the Bajorans/Dawiar/Yrillians than at the Federation. I mean does it make more sense to go to war with us, or to orbit a few cruisers around the home world of their wayward affiliate, shoot some politicians who seem too pro-Federation and "suggest" that maybe they should stop getting so cozy with us? And *then* we have to see how the Federation Council wants to respond.

Brutalizing the Bajorans into not talking to the Federation anymore is a lot less work than brutalizing the Federation into not talking to the Bajorans, and just as likely to be effective. Heck, maybe they'll decide that occupying the Bajorans is the only way to stay safe....
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It's certainly possible, but at least in my opinion the jump to affiliate includes a defensive alliance agreement. The only reason we didn't intervene in the Caitian Dawiar war was because the Caitians declared war first. If Cardassia does declare war on one of our affiliates, I think there will be a strong call to protect our allies.
 
Vote closes in 3 hours!

Derek58 said:
Ok, let's ask Oneiros.

@OneirosTheWriter, given our greatly expanded knowledge on the Cardassians following Grey October, how risky does Starfleet Intelligence think doing a diplomatic push on the Dawiar and/or the Bajorans is? Do they think it might cause the Cardassians to end their self-imposed isolation earlier?
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Okay, well, first off, I make absolutely no representations as to the accuracy of Starfleet Intelligence's opinion: it is their own and the Cardassians are certainly under no obligation to behave according to expectations, and you didn't promote the one who specialised in diplomatic posture reports.

The current thinking is that both would raise tensions, but Bajor pushes are likely to invite redoubled Cardassian efforts to bring them into the fold.
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
Okay, well, first off, I make absolutely no representations as to the accuracy of Starfleet Intelligence's opinion: it is their own and the Cardassians are certainly under no obligation to behave according to expectations, and you didn't promote the one who specialised in diplomatic posture reports.

The current thinking is that both would raise tensions, but Bajor pushes are likely to invite redoubled Cardassian efforts to bring them into the fold
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I say bring it on.

They can be the reactive ones for a change.

And I want to see them when we flood the CBZ with ConnieBees.

E: A bit hawkish, or Expansionist, but I think it's necessary. They are confused now. And we would have the opportunity for Nash to lead a TF to the rescue.

Rennie thoughts:

Rennaissiance should go to the KBZ IMO, or to an interior home sector. Less intel for everyone.

The Klingons are acceptable since their intel is worth jack compared to the other powers.

Still, I would prefer Vulcan or Andorian sectors.
 
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Nervos Belli said:
It's certainly possible, but at least in my opinion the jump to affiliate includes a defensive alliance agreement. The only reason we didn't intervene in the Caitian Dawiar war was because the Caitians declared war first. If Cardassia does declare war on one of our affiliates, I think there will be a strong call to protect our allies.
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It depends what you mean by "declare war on". The Federation doesn't seem to consider attacking Apinata* ships to be a declaration of war as per the most recent Captain's Log. I think the Cardassians can turn the screws very, very tightly indeed and still not count as "declaring war".

*We should all thank our lucky stars the Apinata haven't decided to start blowing up Cardassian shipping to show them what they think of that. They have the warships to do it.
 
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Betazoids Plus One
[X][SHIPYARD] 15 Themis
[X][STARFLEET] Defeat the Orion Syndicate

I ran the numbers, and it looks like we have a ~63% of getting a computing tech team just from the upcoming races joining, assuming nobody writes about a potential computing team and teams are random. Further, to the extent they aren't random, that probably increases our chances of getting one. If you're interested in trying to guarantee it, but can't come up with one among the races joining, may I suggest the Point 12 Supercomputing Facility? They seem to specialize in Foreign Analysis/Computing.

This is just one more reason why the SBZ is way more important to me.

15 Themis is almost certainly not going to win, but I feel I should go down as having suggested it. The system has an outpost, covering local defense. Also it is far closer to our resource colonies, thus fixing the resources are all on one side, construction is on the other problem we're having.

I'm hoping that choosing 'Defeating the Syndicate' gets us bonuses to doing so such as increased resilience, or more effective anti-Syndicate legislation. Yes, I know it's also not going to win at this point.
 
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Counsellors, Kadeshi and Computing
[X][SHIPYARD] Amarkia
[X][STARFLEET] Get Ambassador prototype into production.
 
Briefvoice said:
Trying to get closer to the Bajorans may or may not be a bad idea, but I do want to note that we already did a diplomatic push on them once and the Cardassians didn't do dick. No reaction, nothing. Nor to our pushes on the Dawiar. Nor to our pushes on the Yrillians.

Now maybe the threshold for freak-out is reaching 100 and having them becoming a Federation affiliate... or not. I'm still not sure what 100 means diplomatically or what extent it means formal treaties or if affiliate status will actually be blocked if they are already Cardassian affiliates. It's new territory, and we're going to find out sooner or later. If not on the Bajorans than on the Dawiar or the Yrillians. No one is complaining about pushing them, but it's the same situation.

However I think that if there is a Cardassian freak-out it is much more likely to be directed at the Bajorans/Dawiar/Yrillians than at the Federation. I mean does it make more sense to go to war with us, or to orbit a few cruisers around the home world of their wayward affiliate, shoot some politicians who seem too pro-Federation and "suggest" that maybe they should stop getting so cozy with us? And *then* we have to see how the Federation Council wants to respond.

Brutalizing the Bajorans into not talking to the Federation anymore is a lot less work than brutalizing the Federation into not talking to the Bajorans, and just as likely to be effective. Heck, maybe they'll decide that occupying the Bajorans is the only way to stay safe....
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Yes; this occurred to me and was reflected in some of my recent posts. The catch is, if the Cardassians start harassing Bajor and trying to brutalize them into line, what do we do then? Do we push ships into Bajoran space to protect them and, realistically, start a war? Or do we ignore the situation and allow the Cardassians to begin the Occupation with a side order of "the Federation has betrayed and abandoned you, you're OURS now!"

I'm not sure the "push Bajor" people have really thought that part through. We've got people who "don't want a war," but DO want to escalate in such a way that the Cardassians will have every reason to think we're pushing aggressively against them. We've got people who discount the role of military force, but are totally ignoring the risk that the Cardassians will start using their military as one of the 'bargaining chips' on their side.

We don't want to put ourselves in a position where, through a simple application of salami tactics, the Cardassians can send us scrambling backwards in disarray.

Nervos Belli said:
It's certainly possible, but at least in my opinion the jump to affiliate includes a defensive alliance agreement. The only reason we didn't intervene in the Caitian Dawiar war was because the Caitians declared war first. If Cardassia does declare war on one of our affiliates, I think there will be a strong call to protect our allies.
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In which case we're now fighting a war that some people on the 'vote to push Bajor' side, including the guy who suggested the plan, do not desire... And in fact deny the possibility of!

This strikes me as doublethink: a mindset of "we don't want a war, but we're totally unconcerned about the possibility of being forced into a war by painting ourselves into a corner, at a time when actually fighting that war would be particularly awkward and difficult.

AlphaDelta said:
I say bring it on.

They can be the reactive ones for a change.

And I want to see them when we flood the CBZ with ConnieBees.
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Which don't become available for a year. A lot can happen in a year.

Briefvoice said:
It depends what you mean by "declare war on". The Federation doesn't seem to consider attacking Apinata* ships to be a declaration of war as per the most recent Captain's Log. I think the Cardassians can turn the screws very, very tightly indeed and still not count as "declaring war".

*We should all thank our lucky stars the Apinata haven't decided to start blowing up Cardassian shipping to show them what they think of that. They have the warships to do it.
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OneirosTheWriter said:
Funny you should mention that...
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Derek58 said:
Whoops, looks like the Cardassians kicked the wrong hive :drevil::D
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Yeah, but now what are we going to do?

Again, salami tactics. The Cardassians know they're dealing with an opponent who has this weird schizo "do and do not fight at the same time" mindset going, that they have a good chance of fighting us without actually having to fight a war against all Federation worlds at once, IF they begin by targeting our affiliates. That if they can goad some people within the Federation sphere of influence into rash action, they can weaken the Federation sphere as a whole with minimal risk of having to fight the whole thing.
 
23-21, Betazoids +1 trumps Kadeshi currently, assuming all of the votes since the tally are from neither.

The clear difference to me is that Kadeshi gets us a new tech team and Diplopushes Gretarians instead of Bajorans, which, IMO, is the safer option.
AlphaDelta said:
I say bring it on.

They can be the reactive ones for a change.

And I want to see them when we flood the CBZ with ConnieBees.

E: A bit hawkish, or Expansionist, but I think it's necessary. They are confused now. And we would have the opportunity for Nash to lead a TF to the rescue.

Rennie thoughts:

Rennaissiance should go to the KBZ IMO, or to an interior home sector. Less intel for everyone.

The Klingons are acceptable since their intel is worth jack compared to the other powers.

Still, I would prefer Vulcan or Andorian sectors.
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Our ships are currently tied down dealing with the Syndraxians, the CBZ border, the Syndicate, and our Defence minimums?

Bajor isn't going to disappear overnight.

At least wait until our ships are finished..
 
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Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 776 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4

Task: COUNCIL

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Betazoids Plus One
-[X] Establish Betazoid Counsellors in Starfleet vessels, starting with Explorer Corps, 8 turns, 40pp (Increased Retention nets +.25 Officer/Crew/Technician in Explorer Corps)
-[X] NEW Request Mining Colony at Tagh Pakot, 8pp (4 turns, gain +15 sr / year)
-[X] NEW Request Mining Colony at Lapycorias XIII, 8pp (4 turns, gain +25 br/year)
-[X] NEW Request Research Colony at Ke'Luur, 8pp (6 turns, gain +7rp/year)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Yrillians) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Dawiar) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Kadeshi) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Bajorans) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Establish a Sydraxian Border Zone north of Apinae and Amarkia Sectors, 20pp
-[X] Reorganise a Starfleet Command from a Rear Admiral position to a Vice Admiral position. Pick one: 10pp for your Chief of Staff.
No. of Votes: 22
Plan: ◈Betazoids Plus One
aeqnai
AlphaDelta
Artemis1992
Briefvoice
dacsan
Derek58
Forgothrax
Gadjo
HearthBorn
JesseJ
Katsuragi
lbmaian
Mr Tebbs
Muramasa
Nervos Belli
Night
sebsmith
SynchronizedWritersBlock
TerrisH
tryrar
UbeOne
Yorick's Skull

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Counsellors, Kadeshi and Computing
-[X] Establish Betazoid Counsellors in Starfleet vessels, starting with Explorer Corps, 8 turns, 40pp (Increased Retention nets +.25 Officer/Crew/Technician in Explorer Corps)
-[X] NEW Request Mining Colony at Tagh Pakot, 8pp (4 turns, gain +15 sr / year)
-[X] NEW Request Mining Colony at Lapycorias XIII, 8pp (4 turns, gain +25 br/year)
-[X] NEW Request Research Colony at Ke'Luur, 8pp (6 turns, gain +7rp/year)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Yrillians) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Dawiar) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Kadeshi) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Gretarians) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 25pp [Computing/Personal]
No. of Votes: 21
Plan: ◈Counsellors, Kadeshi and Computing
Aeondrac
aledeth
Ato
ClawClawBite
cokerpilot
DarknessSmiles
Gingganz
Goat
Interested Party
Leila Hann
Muer'ci
Night_stalker
Nix
pheonix89
random_npc
Shard
Simon_Jester
SuperSonicSound
Tasoli
Void Stalker
Yeangst

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Kadesh and Old Guard
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Kadesh and Old Guard
No. of Votes: 2
Plan: ◈Kadesh and Old Guard
drake_azathoth
UberJJK

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Bajorans and Old Guard
No. of Votes: 2
Plan: ◈Bajorans and Old Guard
anon_user
Questara

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Think of the Bajorans!
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Think of the Bajorans!
Happerry

[X][COUNCIL] Basebuilding
No. of Votes: 1
Erandil

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Finally the Betazoids
[X][SHIPYARD] Tellar Prime
No. of Votes: 0
Plan: ◈Finally the Betazoids

[X][COUNCIL] Plan SBZ, Kadeshi, Dawiar, Yrillians, Bajorians
No. of Votes: 0
Plan: ◈SBZ, Kadeshi, Dawiar, Yrillians, Bajorians


Task: SHIPYARD

[X][SHIPYARD] Amarkia
No. of Votes: 31
SynchronizedWritersBlock
aeqnai
aledeth
anon_user
Artemis1992
Ato
Briefvoice
DarknessSmiles
Derek58
drake_azathoth
Gadjo
Gingganz
Happerry
Interested Party
JesseJ
lbmaian
Leila Hann
Mr Tebbs
Muer'ci
Nervos Belli
Night_stalker
Nix
pheonix89
Questara
Shard
SuperSonicSound
tryrar
UbeOne
UberJJK
Yeangst
Yorick's Skull

[X][SHIPYARD] Tellar Prime
No. of Votes: 2
AlphaDelta
ClawClawBite

[X][SHIPYARD] Ferasa
No. of Votes: 2
Aeondrac
Erandil

[X][SHIPYARD] 15 Themis
No. of Votes: 1
sebsmith


Task: STARFLEET

[X][STARFLEET] Get Ambassador prototype into production.
No. of Votes: 28
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Aeondrac
aeqnai
aledeth
Ato
Briefvoice
DarknessSmiles
Derek58
drake_azathoth
Erandil
Gadjo
Gingganz
Interested Party
JesseJ
lbmaian
Leila Hann
Mr Tebbs
Muer'ci
Nervos Belli
Night_stalker
pheonix89
Questara
Shard
SuperSonicSound
tryrar
UbeOne
UberJJK
Yorick's Skull

[X][STARFLEET] New Explorer and science ship ready for production.
No. of Votes: 1
ClawClawBite

[X][STARFLEET] Defeat the Orion Syndicate
No. of Votes: 1
sebsmith

Total No. of Voters: 49

Betazoids Plus One is ahead by a vote. The other leaders are unchanged.
 
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