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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Here is a mock up of my proposed name repository. I've included sections for current and former explorer names to help give us some perspective on our naming scheme.

Ship Names and Registry Commission

Current Explorers:
USS Cheron, NCC-1736
USS Excelsior, NX-2000
USS Enterprise B, NCC-1701-B
USS Courageous, NCC-2003
USS Sarek, NCC-2004
USS Kumari, NCC-2005
USS Miracht A, NCC-2006
USS Endurance NCC-2007
USS S'harien, NCC-2008
USS Salnas, NCC-2009
USS Avandar, NCC-2010
USS Thirishar, NCC-2011
USS Stargazer, NCC-2012

Former Explorers:

Proposed names:
Kirk- Legendary Human Starfleet captain
Rru'adorr- Caitian mythological name
Voshev- Traditional Tellarite vehicle name
Odyssey- Human mythological name
Thanatok- First Andorian warp traveller
Excalibur- Human mythological name
V'kot- Historic Vulcan Starfleet admiral
Hravishran- Historic Andorian Starfleet admiral
Yurul- Historic Tellarite Starfleet admiral
Challenger- Universal concept name
Atlantis- Human mythological name
Endeavour- Universal concept name
Discovery- Universal concept name
Columbia- Human cultural name
Pathfinder- Universal concept name
Atuin- Rigellian mythological name


Registries:
NCC-14xx - Soyuz
NCC-15xx - Oberths
NCC-16xx - Mirandas
NCC-17xx - Constitutions
NCC-18xx - Constellations
NCC-19xx - Mirandas
NCC-20xx - Excelsiors
NCC-21xx - Centaurs
NCC-22xx - Rialas
NCC-23xx - Amarki Escorts
NCC-24xx - Amarki Cruisers
NCC-25xx - Betazed Ships
NCC-26xx - Renaissance


I have noticed some interesting things drawing this up.

Firstly there appears to be a missing Excelsior, which I have assumed is NCC-2004. But seeing as I couldn't find a reference for the registry of the Sarek, it could be NCC-2002. (This is also assuming that the 1701-B replaced NCC-2001, which then went unused, if not then there are two missing Excelsiors.)
Also despite several people referring to the Miracht as the Miracht-A it has the NCC-2006 registry rather than a NCC-18xx-A one that it would have inherited from the first Miracht.

Lastly it appears we have been somewhat overzealous in our naming diversity efforts. There are actually no specifically human named explorers. Excelsior, Enterprise, Courageous, Endurance and Stargazer are all universal concept names. Though it is true all except Stargazer are also traditional human ship names, it is very probable that the other member species have had ships names with at least some of these names in their own languages.
Enterprise is probably the one that is the most obviously a traditional human ship name, but by this point it is now a traditional Starfleet ship name so that should somewhat cancel out. My point is We are probably overdue for a definitively human ship name, especially given that we have already started going round the other founding members handing out second specifically cultural names.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
If, as you say, you "believe all of these things are wrong," then I must be missing something here. Because to me, it sounds like you're communicating from the Bizarro World version of the quest.

I mean, if I take the statement and switch around to the opposite of them, the results do not make sense. Surely you do not believe the opposites of the statements on the list. But you just said that the statements themselves are wrong.

Here is what we get, if we invert all the premises you "don't really agree with" and "believe all of these things are wrong" about.

1) The Federation is on a firm strategic footing, and doesn't have any serious problems sapping its ability to handle the Cardassians.
2) When we appear to be weak, we should act boldly and openly against our rivals, without fear of the consequences.
3) The Federation is growing weaker over time.
4) That voters who are willing to ignore the risk of confrontation now will not ignore it later.
5) The Cardassians will not now, and probably will never, confront us over Bajor if we take it into our sphere of influence.
6) That we should not escalate against Cardassia if we think we can win, BUT...
6a) If we take your plan at face value, we SHOULD escalate against Cardassia if we DON'T think we can take them.

(1) is contradicted by the existence of the Syndicate and the Sydraxians.
(2) sounds completely bonkers.
(3) is contradicted by the huge numbers of new members and new ships joining us year by year.
(4) strikes me as totally inverting human nature. Surely if the voters were that afraid of confronting Cardassia, they wouldn't be voting for doing so now.
(5) is at least remotely plausible, but far from certain.
(6) is, again, bonkers. If it is unwise to escalate against Cardassia when we think we can beat them, surely it is even more unwise to do so when we cannot!

I don't understand how you can simultaneously favor NOT confronting Cardassia, and doing something we have every reason to think the Cardassians will view as escalation, purely because right this minute the Cardassians aren't pushing us very hard.

[You might check with that Apiata forager we encountered recently, whether the Cardassians are really ignoring us and doing nothing and unwilling to respond to provocations]
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Thank you for your blatant and extremely hypocritical strawman argument, I guess?


We currently have the ability to handle likely Cardassian responses.

Fleet strength has very little to do with whether we should take a diplomatic action. Judging us on fleet strength is premising that we should use a significant portion of our fleet as part of our response. That us antithecal to the ideology I feel the Federation should guide its actions by. I do not believe that our current builds will put us in a situation where our perceived strength, the only measure that matters when it comes to external relations, will be significantly greater such that it affects Cardassian decision-making. In other words, we are not getting stronger in ways that matter to diplomacy. And our current fleet strength is enough to deter escalation, as proven by the lack of aggressive Cardassian action in the Kadar-Tor matter, even if some of us may believe internally that it is not strong enough.

I do not view this as a contest of military strength. Doing so is an extremely dire mistake. Military strength is at best, a deterrence. So to address the final few points, wrt diplomatic action and likely responses, the ability to take the Cardassians as a whole is a non-factor.

You are premising that voters believe there will be a strong and military Cardassian reaction now, but most believe you are simply wrong. However, in the future, this will not be the case. Consider please that your risk assessment could be very wrong. Consider also that willingness and opportunity to intervene with diplomatic action, like now, is not the same as willingness and opportunity to intervene with military action.



This the only time I'm going to respond to what is an incredibly blatant set of bad faith arguments. Please address what I actually say, rather than a fully made up list, in the future.
 
aeqnai said:
Looking it up, Enterprise is the ship which replaced NCC-2002.
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There is still a missing Excelsior, it would just be NCC-2001.

It is probably just a mistake, but I think it would be fun if there is actually a missing Excelsior. Say for instance that USS Excalibur NCC-2001 was a ship lost on a five year mission prior to 2301.

Losing an Explorer would be another mark agasint Admiral Rogers that eventually lead to his dismissal.
 
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Ato said:
There is still a missing Excelsior, it would just be NCC-2001.

It is probably just a mistake, but I think it would be fun if there is actually a missing Excelsior. Say for instance that USS Excalibur NCC-2001 was a ship lost on a five year mission prior to 2301.

Loosing an Explorer would be another mark agasint Admiral Rogers that eventually lead to his dismissal.
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Plus that gives it the opportunity to come back... although maybe not quite how we would remember it. The crew smiles too much, you see.
 
Ato said:
Firstly there appears to be a missing Excelsior, which I have assumed is NCC-2004. But seeing as I couldn't find a reference for the registry of the Sarek, it could be NCC-2002. (This is also assuming that the 1701-B replaced NCC-2001, which then went unused, if not then there are two missing Excelsiors.)
Also despite several people referring to the Miracht as the Miracht-A it has the NCC-2006 registry rather than a NCC-18xx-A one that it would have inherited from the first Miracht.
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Going off of this post, Excelsior is NCC-2001, which solves your off by one error. NCC-2002 originally belonged to Enterprise, as @aeqnai mentioned, so that means Sarek must be NCC-2004.
 
...Excelsior was canonically NX-2000. Which honestly makes a great deal of sense with our current numbering scheme. I'd rather it not be renumbered.
 
Ato said:
My point is We are probably overdue for a definitively human ship name, especially given that we have already started going round the other founding members handing out second specifically cultural names.
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I'd go Columbia or Atlantis, maybe Odyssey. I'm always down for more Space Shuttle references. Plus the Columbia was one of the more famous NX vessels so...

EDIT: in fact we could probably use all the Space Shuttle Orbiter names, as most of them are translatable concepts.
 
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aeqnai said:
...Excelsior was canonically NX-2000. Which honestly makes a great deal of sense with our current numbering scheme. I'd rather it not be renumbered.
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:V
@OneirosTheWriter doesn't appear to care about canon numbers very much.
Iron Wolf said:
I'd go Columbia or Atlantis, maybe Odyssey. I'm always down for more Space Shuttle references. Plus the Columbia was one of the more famous NX vessels so...

EDIT: in fact we could probably use all the Space Shuttle Orbiter names, as most of them are translatable concepts.
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Columbia might be one way to try to fix the numbering scheme.

Not sure it will work.

Especially since I'm now half expecting it to end up with a registry of NCC-621-A instead.
 
Hospital ship names?

USS Tranquillity. It captures the nice (mostly) environment of a hospital ship.

also, I have read all information posts, And I think I know what to do now. If not, Correct me.

USS Odyssey is good, because It captures part of our historical mythology into a public space, that may inquire other species to become interested and research it. Though, I'm pretty sure that there was another USS Odyssey in the Star trek universe, though I am not sure if it is still in service. If it is, we need to name it something else.
 
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So it seems I'm faced with a difficult choice. My plan obviously isn't going to win, so I have to decide which I care about more. Do I want a Sydraxian Border Zone and the new Vice Admiral position, or do I *not* want to push the Bajorans? ....

I think... In the end, the Vice Admiral position is the swing vote. I'd rather have that and the SBZ than a new tech team and not pushing the Bajorans. Sorry guys, but I have to bail on my own plan.

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Betazoids Plus One

[X][SHIPYARD] Amarkia

[X][STARFLEET] Get Ambassador prototype into production.

lbmaian said:
It looks alright in partition by block mode, though needs double-checking. (sebsmith also inadvertently introduced rank voting options with Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 782 but it's not clobbering his vote, so leaving that in as a funny artifact.)

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 776 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.6

Options:
We've been told they are supporting anti-Federation Hives in the hopes of denying us another member race.

Winner: We've been told they are supporting anti-Federation Hives in the hopes of denying us another member race.
[1] sebsmith


Total No. of Voters: 1


Task: COUNCIL

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Betazoids Plus One
-[X] Establish Betazoid Counsellors in Starfleet vessels, starting with Explorer Corps, 8 turns, 40pp (Increased Retention nets +.25 Officer/Crew/Technician in Explorer Corps)
-[X] NEW Request Mining Colony at Tagh Pakot, 8pp (4 turns, gain +15 sr / year)
-[X] NEW Request Mining Colony at Lapycorias XIII, 8pp (4 turns, gain +25 br/year)
-[X] NEW Request Research Colony at Ke'Luur, 8pp (6 turns, gain +7rp/year)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Yrillians) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Dawiar) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Kadeshi) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Bajorans) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Establish a Sydraxian Border Zone north of Apinae and Amarkia Sectors, 20pp
-[X] Reorganise a Starfleet Command from a Rear Admiral position to a Vice Admiral position. Pick one: 10pp for your Chief of Staff.
No. of Votes: 15
Plan: ◈Betazoids Plus One
AlphaDelta
Artemis1992
DarknessSmiles
Derek58
Forgothrax
JesseJ
Katsuragi
lbmaian
Mr Tebbs
Muramasa
Nervos Belli
SynchronizedWritersBlock
TerrisH
UbeOne
Yorick's Skull

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Counsellors, Kadeshi and Computing
-[X] Establish Betazoid Counsellors in Starfleet vessels, starting with Explorer Corps, 8 turns, 40pp (Increased Retention nets +.25 Officer/Crew/Technician in Explorer Corps)
-[X] NEW Request Mining Colony at Tagh Pakot, 8pp (4 turns, gain +15 sr / year)
-[X] NEW Request Mining Colony at Lapycorias XIII, 8pp (4 turns, gain +25 br/year)
-[X] NEW Request Research Colony at Ke'Luur, 8pp (6 turns, gain +7rp/year)
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Yrillians) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Dawiar) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Kadeshi) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Gretarians) [Can be taken up to four times]
-[X] Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 25pp [Computing/Personal]
No. of Votes: 14
Plan: ◈Counsellors, Kadeshi and Computing
Aeondrac
aledeth
Ato
ClawClawBite
Gingganz
Interested Party
Leila Hann
Muer'ci
Night_stalker
Nix
pheonix89
Shard
SuperSonicSound
Yeangst

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Finally the Betazoids
[X][SHIPYARD] Tellar Prime
No. of Votes: 5
Plan: ◈Finally the Betazoids
aeqnai
Briefvoice
sebsmith
Simon_Jester
tryrar

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Kadesh and Old Guard
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Kadesh and Old Guard
No. of Votes: 3
Plan: ◈Kadesh and Old Guard
drake_azathoth
UberJJK
Void Stalker

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Bajorans and Old Guard
No. of Votes: 2
Plan: ◈Bajorans and Old Guard
anon_user
Questara

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Think of the Bajorans!
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Think of the Bajorans!
Happerry

[X][COUNCIL] Basebuilding
No. of Votes: 1
Erandil

[X][COUNCIL] Plan SBZ, Kadeshi, Dawiar, Yrillians, Bajorians
No. of Votes: 0
Plan: ◈SBZ, Kadeshi, Dawiar, Yrillians, Bajorians

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: SHIPYARD

[X][SHIPYARD] Amarkia
No. of Votes: 31
Briefvoice
aeqnai
aledeth
anon_user
Artemis1992
Ato
DarknessSmiles
Derek58
drake_azathoth
Gingganz
Happerry
Interested Party
JesseJ
lbmaian
Leila Hann
Mr Tebbs
Muer'ci
Nervos Belli
Night_stalker
Nix
pheonix89
Questara
Shard
Simon_Jester
SuperSonicSound
SynchronizedWritersBlock
tryrar
UbeOne
UberJJK
Yeangst
Yorick's Skull

[X][SHIPYARD] Tellar Prime
No. of Votes: 2
AlphaDelta
ClawClawBite

[X][SHIPYARD] Ferasa
No. of Votes: 2
Aeondrac
Erandil

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: STARFLEET

[X][STARFLEET] Get Ambassador prototype into production.
No. of Votes: 27
Briefvoice
Aeondrac
aeqnai
aledeth
Ato
DarknessSmiles
Derek58
drake_azathoth
Erandil
Gingganz
Interested Party
JesseJ
lbmaian
Leila Hann
Mr Tebbs
Muer'ci
Nervos Belli
Night_stalker
pheonix89
Questara
Shard
SuperSonicSound
SynchronizedWritersBlock
tryrar
UbeOne
UberJJK
Yorick's Skull

[X][STARFLEET] New Explorer and science ship ready for production.
No. of Votes: 1
ClawClawBite

Total No. of Voters: 41
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Well.

If we're lucky, we don't end up fighting the Cardassian-Federation War before the first ConnieBee comes out of spacedock. I'm going to hope that actually happens, but I think a lot of people are being reckless.

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Thank you for your blatant and extremely hypocritical strawman argument, I guess?
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Look, you made a bullet point list, said "I disagree with all these things," and what do you expect me to do? Most of the things on the bullet point list are pretty much self-evident truths. I came right out and said "this can't be what you believe, surely you do not believe the opposites of all these statements which you said you disagree with. So, what do you really believe?"

And now you've told me, in a much more coherent fashion than in making a bullet list of mostly-true statements and claiming you disagree with them all.

We currently have the ability to handle likely Cardassian responses.
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I can't see why you believe that. The only reasons I can think of would be:

1) Because you are entirely sure that the Cardassians will not attack us. Or,
2) That the Cardassians lack the ability to aid the Sydraxians and the Syndicate.

I would argue that both these claims are false. The Cardassians have already acted as per (2), and we know that in canon they pretty much have to have been the ones who attacked the Federation in the canon war between them.

Fleet strength has very little to do with whether we should take a diplomatic action. Judging us on fleet strength is premising that we should use a significant portion of our fleet as part of our response. That us antithecal to the ideology I feel the Federation should guide its actions by.
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You are completely misunderstanding.

My point is that we must not plan only for what we do to Cardassia. We must also plan for what Cardassia does to us.

Right now, if Cardassia chooses to do anything except the most minor, inconsequential pinprick actions against us, we are in serious trouble. We're in trouble if they aid the Syndicate and significantly increase its strength. We're in trouble if they significantly bolster the Sydraxian fleet. And we're in trouble if they attack us directly. All of those are options the Cardassians CAN choose to pursue, if they see fit. And we are poorly prepared to deal with the consequences of those actions.

You are, in my view, making the mistake of making a plan for how we can hurt Cardassia, while ignoring Cardassia's ability to hurt us.

I do not believe that our current builds will put us in a situation where our perceived strength, the only measure that matters when it comes to external relations, will be significantly greater such that it affects Cardassian decision-making. In other words, we are not getting stronger in ways that matter to diplomacy. And our current fleet strength is enough to deter escalation, as proven by the lack of aggressive Cardassian action in the Kadar-Tor matter, even if some of us may believe internally that it is not strong enough.
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The Cardassian behavior in the Kadak-Tor incident does not prove that Cardassia is deterred from escalation. It proves that in the specific circumstances of the Kadak-Tor incident, the Cardassians did not want to start a war against us under circumstances disadvantageous to them. Among the disadvantages faced by Cardassia had they chosen to be aggressive at that time were:

1) The fact that their fleet was scattered and poorly positioned to hit us in a concentrated way, because they'd rushed ships forward to find Kadak-Tor as fast as possible rather than mass them into an invasion fleet.
2) The fact that OUR fleet was alerted well in advance, by a sudden, huge surge of Cardassian communications. In the event of a real invasion, the Cardassians would plan ahead, and we would not observe such a huge increase in message traffic. Their ships would simply start moving.
3) The fact that the Cardassians' allies were not alerted in advance. The Lecarre never even showed up during the operation as far as we can tell. The Dawiar had no clue what the Cardassian fleet was doing. While the Sydraxians DID eventually launch a raid to take advantage of our relative weakness on the coreward border, there is no compelling evidence that we they did so in conjunction with Cardassian actions. The Syndicate did basically nothing but lie low and plot a few long-term terrorist attack plans during the crisis.
4) The fact that we went to extreme lengths to make sure the Cardassians believed that the Kadak-Tor had been destroyed. Since that was their real objective all along if the ship could not be recaptured, Cardassia came away from the incident believing that they had 'won,' or at least avoided a disastrous defeat.

The point here is, you cannot generalize from "the Cardassians didn't attack us during Grey October" to "the Cardassians won't attack us if they think we're about to yank a whole mineral-rich planet out from under their noses and advance our borders yet another week's travel closer to their space."

This time around, their fleet would have time to assemble to hit us wherever the Cardassians think is an especially tender spot. We would have less advance notice, especially if they chose as their initial targets places like the Apiata, Indorion, and Bajoran homeworlds. They would be able to coordinate in advance with their own proxies and friends all around our space, probably including the Syndicate, to make sure everyone hits us at once, disrupting our ability to respond to the Cardassians themselves.

And unlike last time, we'd have no way to trick the Cardassians into thinking they'd gotten enough of what they wanted that war no longer seemed to palatable to them.

So if we plan for the Cardassians' capabilities... right now, what they are capable of is quite a lot more than I'd like to tangle with.

Whereas you are gambling on their intentions- that they don't intend to seriously harm us, even if (in their eyes) we harmed them first.

I do not view this as a contest of military strength. Doing so is an extremely dire mistake. Military strength is at best, a deterrence. So to address the final few points, wrt diplomatic action and likely responses, the ability to take the Cardassians as a whole is a non-factor.
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Military strength is one of multiple measures of our ability to protect ourselves if an opponent decides to punish us for actions they disapprove of.

By ignoring the balance of military strength, you ignore the prospect of Cardassian action. You're so busy thinking about what we can do to them that you're not planning for what they might do to us.

You are premising that voters believe there will be a strong and military Cardassian reaction now, but most believe you are simply wrong. However, in the future, this will not be the case. Consider please that your risk assessment could be very wrong. Consider also that willingness and opportunity to intervene with diplomatic action, like now, is not the same as willingness and opportunity to intervene with military action.
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My point is, quite simply, that we are making a serious mistake if we decide that the Cardassians' military actions are "off the table" and not a threat we have to be aware of. Their weapons and firepower did not go away. Their alliances with the Dawiar, Sydraxians, and apparently the Yrillians did not go away. They are still capable of hitting us hard, just as much so as they were in 2309 before the Grey October incident.

This the only time I'm going to respond to what is an incredibly blatant set of bad faith arguments. Please address what I actually say, rather than a fully made up list, in the future.
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I made up that list by inverting things you told me were false. And I explicitly said that this was NOT what I thought you believed, that such beliefs seemed nonsensical.

Please do not blame me for the fact that you mis-stated your own position in such a way as to make it appear nonsensical.
 
drake_azathoth said:
..Have you been to a hospital recently? That's kind of like calling a fat guy 'Slim'. Even Federation hospitals seem crazy.
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...

Besides, The words after words were supposed to be flavor text, if you catch my drift.

USS Tranquillity (AH-14) - Wikipedia

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Anyways, If I am to understand here, we need to reinforce the border, however, not by too much however, they might see it as a hostile or military build up. We can't send that many units or they will see it as an invasion attempt. The syndicate does seem like a problem as well, and we might need to reinforce that border as well. I'm taking a look at this map right now, and I see that their is a small gap of undiscovered Territory between the sydraxite and the cardassians. If we can establish some sort of blockade in that sector without alerting them, that would be great. However, the presence of new factions could happen. We need to send some sort of expedition there so we don't blindly fall into anything. The posts I've been seeing do talk about the Cardassians reinforcing the Sydraxites, and this might prevent them from going any further. I do say though, My plan involves a blockade in deep unexplored space, not a full military campaign. If this is too much, we could also send scouts or a probe there to sense any reinforcement from them.

Also, never underestimate your enemy. It could lead to fatal consequences.

"They Couldn't hit an elephant from this dis..."

General John Sedgwick, union army general refereeing to the confederate army.

@Breifvoice says:

Eh, I'm hopeful that it wouldn't go *straight* to war. If the Cardassians tell us to back off and not interfere with he Bajorans further and we comply then there should be no problem, right? The Council just needs an actual warning.

Anyway, vote for Nix's plan if staying away from the Bajorans is your preeminent concern. A new Computer team would certainly be useful.
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They probably wouldn't either. it's risky for them to do so. The Federation does have high prestige and military power., along with a list of allies. They would not go into straight up war with us instantly, they would only do it if they have their own (long) list of allies, which they might have, but right now the federation is one of the leading powers, along with the Cardassians. They will most likely try to build up military strength first, if they have not yet done so. However, anything is possible is this point, all we can do now is prepare for what's to come. Wars are not something that can be prevented from happening this easily. But, let us assume that they do attack. Instantly, our allies will respond and most likely send us reinforcements. If they don't, we will have to engage them head on, in more ways than one. The Syndicate will most likely take advantage of this if we overextend ourselves by reinforcing the Cardassain front. We need to protect both borders. Anything we do now will just prolong the war, we can not avoid it.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
Well.

If we're lucky, we don't end up fighting the Cardassian-Federation War before the first ConnieBee comes out of spacedock. I'm going to hope that actually happens, but I think a lot of people are being reckless.
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Eh, I'm hopeful that it wouldn't go *straight* to war. If the Cardassians tell us to back off and not interfere with he Bajorans further and we comply then there should be no problem, right? The Council just needs an actual warning.

Anyway, vote for Nix's plan if staying away from the Bajorans is your preeminent concern. A new Computer team would certainly be useful.
 
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Betazoids Plus One

[X][SHIPYARD] Amarkia

[X][STARFLEET] Get Ambassador prototype into production.
 
Briefvoice said:
Eh, I'm hopeful that it wouldn't go *straight* to war. If the Cardassians tell us to back off and not interfere with he Bajorans further and we comply then there should be no problem, right? The Council just needs an actual warning.
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Yes, the Cardassians have been great about communicating through diplomatic channels in the past, haven't they?
 
I wouldn't mind any of the top 3 plans winning. If I rate the SBZ+VADM+Bajor plan a 10, I'd rate SBZ+VADM+Gretaria plan a 9, and tech team+Gretaria plan a 7.

edit: actually SBZ+VADM rather than just SBZ
 
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Simon_Jester said:
I made up that list by inverting things you told me were false. And I explicitly said that this was NOT what I thought you believed, that such beliefs seemed nonsensical.

Please do not blame me for the fact that you mis-stated your own position in such a way as to make it appear nonsensical.
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That you can't possibly comprehend how someone could hold those positions is not my fault. Inverting and trying to invent reasons the way you did is in fact strawmanning and doing so hard. It is simple to just ask for clarification, but you're trying to defend your incredibly terrible tactic here?

I've run out of benefit of the doubt for you. Have fun, you won't see me engaging you again.
 
Interested Party said:
Yes, the Cardassians have been great about communicating through diplomatic channels in the past, haven't they?
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They're not violent lunatics either. Cardassia has not gone to war because it isn't in their interests to fight us and take heavy casualties regardless of outcome. Even if they win, they don't necessarily gain. This situation still pertains and is likely to for the foreseeable future.
 
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