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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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HearthBorn said:
+1 Crew rating is Nash's great ability, even though here it's only in combat that we'll see it in action. Plus, I just can't turn down more events in the sector..
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Have to correct you here. It's not in combat, it's when High Alert or State Of Emergency is in effect. Meaning normal random combats don't trigger that half of the bonus, but if shit hits the fan everything does.
 
KLINGON BORDER ZONE

There are valid reasons, in my opinion, to pick either Eaton or ch'Zelil (whose name is also an oddity, given the chan prefix and that she's listed as shen. ;) )

I do view the increased event rate as a bonus, because historically, events on the KBZ have profited us despite the ships there being relatively weak ones. And having her (?) effectively promote her own flagship to Blooded sounds neat. The clincher for me, though, aside from wanting Eaton to not spend the rest of her career stuck behind a desk, is this:

I have become convinced that ambushes are really important! More so than I would normally have expected, given how I imagine Star Trek working. That goes double when dealing with someone who has invisibility cloaks of their own, unlike the Cardassians. Coupling that with her peacetime bonus, and I think Eaton's the woman for the job.

Though I do wish/hope I could/can vote ch'Zelil in for a different sector command at a later time. Maybe Ferasa or Amarkia sector.


VULCAN SECTOR

T'Faer would be a good choice for this role, but Nix thinks it would be a demotion for her. And come to think of it, she was in a sector command role during the biophage crisis six or seven years ago, right? Putting her back into one might not be a demotion but it'd sure be a sidewaysmotion.

Commodore T'Lam is a great candidate, but among other things I've got her in mind as the person who will be replacing Linderley if he screws up badly enough to need replacement. Since I consider "Linderley screws up" a fairly probable event, I'd rather keep T'Lam available in groundside positions where she's highly competent and can keep her pointy ear to the ground on those secrets.

Meanwhile, Revak offers us a strong bonus. And this is an almost ideal place to "park" him; Vulcan Sector Command is kind of a sinecure position. Maybe he'll get his much-desired admiral's stars and maybe he won't, but putting him in this slot is... logical... either way.



TELLAR SECTOR

Sagek's pure-combat bonus is less irrelevant than it might otherwise be; we've seen that in the event of a crisis, the Tellar Sector fleet is very likely to be mobilized and reasonably likely to see action against the Cardassians or the Sydraxians. Plus, Tellar Sector is close to Orion space, and while I don't know if they've rolled any anti-Syndicate events they may soon. Such events seem more likely than normal to involve Combat checks.

I think that ag Hugac's option, while appealing, seems less than optimal mechanically and narratively. It's insurance in case we're in danger of losing a ship, but on the other hand, bonuses to Combat checks put us in less danger of needing to roll a Hull check. Narratively, a man "more accustomed to fitting out ships than running them" is maybe not our best choice for running a sector fleet. I can think of a lot of other places I'd rather promote this guy to.

th'Zahliss's bonus is genuinely interesting. +5rp per successful event in Tellar Sector may or may not be stronger than a flat +5rp/year. That said, I feel really bad about how this guy keeps getting passed over for plum positions because despite his bonus being good, we can't use it due to having so much research income that we struggle to find teams to spend it all on. I have faith that we'll find ways to spend extra RP sooner or later, and I want to back him for that.

That said, we ARE short of senior Tellarites and most other sectors with a member species ARE commanded by a member of that species.


So...

[X][KBZ] Commodore Victoria Eaton
[X][VULCAN] Commodore Revak
[X][TELLAR] Commodore Hurgok Sagek
 
Simon_Jester said:
[Still thinking over the sector command choices. Thanks to @lbmaian for that biography list, it'll help me decide]

The Klingons and Romulans fought a war at least once in the early- to mid-2300s, and the Federation never wound up "having to" attack the Romulans over it.
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I never said attack, and I specifically said we could probably weasel out of it if we wanted.
I think it refers more to giving them some support that is not necessarily combat related. It may be as simple as sharing some Intel with them, or co-operating in convoy protection near the border.

If a Klingon-Romulan war does break out where Klingons are at least not unambiguously the aggressors, I think we should aid them in some way. Having the Klingons think we don't live up to our promises is not a good idea.
 
Ato said:
I never said attack, and I specifically said we could probably weasel out of it if we wanted.
I think it refers more to giving them some support that is not necessarily combat related. It may be as simple as sharing some Intel with them, or co-operating in convoy protection near the border.

If a Klingon-Romulan war does break out where Klingons are at least not unambiguously the aggressors, I think we should aid them in some way. Having the Klingons think we don't live up to our promises is not a good idea.
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We should fulfill our treaty obligations if the Romulans are unambiguously the aggressors, or close enough that any excuses on that score would just be a fig leaf. Otherwise we should stay neutral.

A war between Klingons and Romulans would be a good opportunity for the Caldonian accession. The Klingons are unlikely to make any noises about it then, and it's not something they could easily make an issue of long after the fact, nor is it any sort of betrayal or hostile move in itself.
 
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Ato said:
I never said attack, and I specifically said we could probably weasel out of it if we wanted.
I think it refers more to giving them some support that is not necessarily combat related. It may be as simple as sharing some Intel with them, or co-operating in convoy protection near the border.

If a Klingon-Romulan war does break out where Klingons are at least not unambiguously the aggressors, I think we should aid them in some way. Having the Klingons think we don't live up to our promises is not a good idea.
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I think we should first make sure we know what the Khitomer Accords actually say. The Federation's diplomats should have already gone over the treaty (heck, should have done this in '93 when it was signed, let alone during the intervening sixteen years). They should already know under what circumstances the Klingons do or do not expect Federation military aid.

For that matter, the Romulans themselves probably already know that, since it's not like we kept the Khitomer Accords a secret!

Of course, we don't have a lot of evidence for the Diplomatic Corps being proactive in doing stuff like that in this quest, which is unfortunate and sometimes frustrating.
 
One thing I didn't see mentioned among the worries about pushing Cardassian clients is that pushing a Romulan neutral zone power to affiliate could easily be seen as a provocation. In that sense, if we knew when the Kadeshi planned to make their journey we'd want to time things carefully, and the Sotaw would definitely be a tough sell.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
One thing I didn't see mentioned among the worries about pushing Cardassian clients is that pushing a Romulan neutral zone power to affiliate could easily be seen as a provocation. In that sense, if we knew when the Kadeshi planned to make their journey we'd want to time things carefully, and the Sotaw would definitely be a tough sell.
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We could always convince the Kadeshi that their ancestors were dropped in the neutral zone by an ancient exile, and that they need to reclaim their original homeworld of Cardassia Prime.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
I think we should first make sure we know what the Khitomer Accords actually say. The Federation's diplomats should have already gone over the treaty (heck, should have done this in '93 when it was signed, let alone during the intervening sixteen years). They should already know under what circumstances the Klingons do or do not expect Federation military aid.

For that matter, the Romulans themselves probably already know that, since it's not like we kept the Khitomer Accords a secret!

Of course, we don't have a lot of evidence for the Diplomatic Corps being proactive in doing stuff like that in this quest, which is unfortunate and sometimes frustrating.
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Going by the bits of the wikis I dug up through a quick, few-seconds search (relevant links here and here) it looks like if the Klingons are the ones being attacked we are only bound to not ally with the Romulans, to offer whatever and however much aid we deem appropriate and no more or less, and possibly humanitarian aid if that becomes relevant. And by the looks of it we aren't even bound to the first two of those if the Klingons are the ones doing the attacking. So not really a huge thing, by my reading.
 
So if we're talking about how ships might be best distributed with the KBZ commander vote, let's take a look at 2311 when we're going to have to cover the Caitian and Rigellian sectors. At that time we will have:
  • 1 Constitution (Cheron)
  • 6/11 Excelsiors (5 in Explorer Corps; remaining 6 = Excelsior, Kumari, Endurance, Salnas, Avandar, Thirishar)
  • 7 Constellations (Challorn, Docana, Kearsarge, Sappho, Selaya, Stalwart, Vigour)
  • 3/4 Oberth (T'Mir posted to Intelligence; 3 = Hawking, Inspire, Suvek)
  • 11 Mirandas (Bon Vivant, Calypso, Dryad, Eketha, Fidelity, Intrepid, Lion, Shield, Svai, T'Kumbra, Thunderhead)
  • 6/7 Centaur-A (Yukikaze on Syndicate duty; Zephyr returns in Q2; Blizzard, Bull, Lightning, Gale, Winterwind)
Defense requirements for some key systems may go up in 2311, though we received that notice a long time back at the end of the Biophage crisis. For the time being I'm going to make some assumptions about that, assuming that more vulnerable sectors will have their requirements increased while those moved more to the 'center' of the Federation won't.)

Sol (Current D15; assume D18 due to more key facilities)
Currently: 1 Excelsior [Endurance] (6), 1 Centaur-A (3) [Bull], 3 Miranda [Lion, Bon Vivant, Fidelity] (6), Starbase 1* (5)
Proposed: Leave as is.
Rationale: Already demonstrated repeated Sydraxian attacks; Vega starbase will not be in service until Q4

Betazed (Current D3; assume D3 due to lack of new threats)
Currently: 1 Constellation [Selaya] (3)
Proposed: Leave as is.

Vulcan (Current D12; assume D12 due to lack of new facilities or threats)
Currently: 1 Constellation [Sappho] (3), 1 Centaur-A (3) [Lightning], 1 Miranda (2) [T'Kumbra], Starbase I (5)
Proposed: Constellation [Sappho] (3), 2 Mirandas (4) [T'Kumbra, Thunderhead], Starbase I (5) = Add Thunderhead, remove Lightning for duty in Andoria.
Rationale: Vulcan is in a core sector with no open borders. Minimum fleet is fine.

Andoria (Currently D9; assume D12 because on par with Vulcan)
Currently: 1 Excelsior (6) [Avandar], 1 Constellation (3) [Docana], 1 Miranda (2) [Eketha], 1 Oberth [Suvek] (1), Starbase I (5)
Proposed: 1 Constellation (3) [Docana], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Lightning], 1 Oberth [Suvek] (1), Starbase I (5) = Add Lightning, pull the Avandar and the Eketha off for duties in Caitian Sector.
Rationale: Andoria is now a core sector with no open borders. Two constellations plus the sensors of an Oberth and a Starbase ought to be plenty for anti-Syndicate commerce inspections.

Tellar Prime (Currently D9; assume D12 because on par with Vulcan)
Currently: 1 Constellation (3) [Stalwart], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Gale], 1 Miranda (2) [Calypso], Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5)
Proposed: Leave as it.
Rationale: With potential Sydraxian/Yrillian attacks, going below three ships not recommended.

Amarkia (Currently D9; assume D12 due to greater vulnerability as border sector)
Currently: 1 Excelsior (6) [Salnas], 1 Constellation (3) [Vigour], 1 Miranda [Dryad] (2), Oberth [Hawking] (1), Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5)
Proposed: 1 Excelsior (6) [Salnas], 1 Constellation (3) [Vigour], 1 Miranda [Dryad] (2), Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = Send Hawking to RBZ.
Rationale: Represents open front in ongoing Sydraxian war, as well as key anti-Syndicate operations.

Ferasa (Currently D0; assume D12 as key border sector)
Currently: Ferasa Station [Starbase I]
Proposed: 1 Excelsior (6) [Avandar], 1 Miranda (2) [Eketha], Starbase I (5), and 1 Centaur-B (3) [Blizzard]
Rationale: Being a border Sector and hosting anti-Syndicate activities needs an Excelsior and back-up ships.

Rigel (Currently D0; assume D10 as key border sector)
Currently: Rigel Station [Starbase I]
Proposed: 1 Constellation (3) [Kearsage], 1 Miranda (2) [Shield], and 1 Centaur-A (3) [Zephry] when it returns to service in 2311Q2, Starbase I (5)
Rationale: Away from threats, filling out with lower power ships is fine.

Romulan Border Zone (Currently D12; assume D12 as concern about Biophage fades but concern about Romulan/Klingon war becomes higher.)
Currently: 1 Excelsior (6) [Excelsior], 2 Miranda (4) [Svai, Thunderhead], Starbase I (5)
Proposed: 1 Excelsior (6) [Excelsior], 1 Miranda (2) [Svai], Oberth [Hawking] (1), Starbase I (5) = Pull off 1 Miranda [Thunderhead] for duties in Vulcan.
Rationale: With Starbase and Excelsior and Oberth, RBZ is sufficiently monitored.

Klingon Border Zone (Currently D6; assume D9 as concern about Romulan/Klingon war becomes higher.)
Currently: 1 Constellation (3) [Kearsage], 2 Miranda (4), 1 Oberth (1)
Proposed: Excelsior (6) [Thirishar], 1 Oberth [Inspire], 1 Miranda (2) [Intrepid] = Add new Excelsior Thirishar, pull off the Kearsage and Shield.
Rationale: With war coming, KBZ needs an Excelsior watching it.

Cardassian Border Zone (Currently D10; assume D12 due to many key interests in area)
Currently: 1 Constitution (5) [Cheron], 1 Excelsior (6) [Kumari), 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Winterwind]
Proposed: Keep as is.
Rationale: Starbase will not be up until 2312. After that we can consider drawing down a ship.
 
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I have no fundamental problems with this arrangement in broad except that I really, really think we need to make sure we've got good counter-cloak defenses in the Romulan and Klingon border zones. Two of the most likely scenarios for us getting sucked into the war are:

1) One side launching a false flag operation, probably using cloaking devices, and possibly using the flocks of D7s that both sides possess.

2) One side using cloaks in an attempt to sneak through our space to hit the other side in the flank.

I'd like to have two high-Science vessels in each border zone if possible. Since we can't spare Excelsiors, I think each zone should have an Oberth.
 
[X][KBZ] Captain Syzi ch'Zelil

[X][VULCAN] Commodore Revak

[X][TELLAR] Commodore Hurgok Sagek
 
If there is a romulan-klingon conflict, our main priority needs to be containing it, and keeping the Orion cartels and cardassian out of it. We also want to be a trustworthy option for both of them for peace negotiation and mediation. We are a concerned friend, not space police over them.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I have no fundamental problems with this arrangement in broad except that I really, really think we need to make sure we've got good counter-cloak defenses in the Romulan and Klingon border zones. Two of the most likely scenarios for us getting sucked into the war are:

1) One side launching a false flag operation, probably using cloaking devices, and possibly using the flocks of D7s that both sides possess.

2) One side using cloaks in an attempt to sneak through our space to hit the other side in the flank.

I'd like to have two high-Science vessels in each border zone if possible. Since we can't spare Excelsiors, I think each zone should have an Oberth.
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Under the plan above, our Oberths are in Rigel, Andoria, and Amarkia. You could pull the Hawking from Amarkia easily enough, but (assuming Defense requirements are as I predicted) you'd have to find some other ships to make up the Defense in Andoria or Rigel.

Possibly it's not necessary; the Starbase in the RBZ has some pretty great sensors as well, so combined with the Excelsior I don't think we need an Oberth there.
 
[X][KBZ] Captain Syzi ch'Zelil
[X][VULCAN] Commodore Revak
[X][TELLAR] Commodore Hurgok Sagek
 
@Briefvoice
Looks good. I would mention that since event responses are per sector, we don't actually need have ships assigned to Betazed for event response, only defense. This is part of why I keep pushing for a starbase for Betazed: it frees up ship assignments in a way that Border Zone starbases don't, because Border Zones need ships for event response while Betazed gets to use the same response pool as the Sol Sector. Drawing away ships from the border zone because the starbase covers the defense requirements has downsides that drawing them away from Betazed doesn't.

Also consider that both the Apatia and Indorians are very close (1 turn with pushes or event luck) to hitting 500 and that we'll want to deploy substantial assets there. And deploy a starbase over Indoria.
 
pheonix89 said:
@Briefvoice
Looks good. I would mention that since event responses are per sector, we don't actually need have ships assigned to Betazed for event response, only defense. This is part of why I keep pushing for a starbase for Betazed: it frees up ship assignments in a way that Border Zone starbases don't, because Border Zones need ships for event response while Betazed gets to use the same response pool as the Sol Sector. Drawing away ships from the border zone because the starbase covers the defense requirements has downsides that drawing them away from Betazed doesn't.

Also consider that both the Apatia and Indorians are very close (1 turn with pushes or event luck) to hitting 500 and that we'll want to deploy substantial assets there. And deploy a starbase over Indoria.
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A starbase over Betazed would be one of the more useful things the development faction could spend those 50 pp on. Others include the unnamed mining colony option in the Tellar sector and an academy upgrade. An expansion of Utopia Planitia wouldn't be too bad either, but we don't really need more berths in the short to mid term.
 
pheonix89 said:
Also consider that both the Apatia and Indorians are very close (1 turn with pushes or event luck) to hitting 500 and that we'll want to deploy substantial assets there. And deploy a starbase over Indoria.
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Well you have to take these things year by year. As Nix says, we'll see if Development deploys a Betazed starbase for us. It's the only member homeworld without one, so it's got to be tempting for them.

I am crossing my fingers that we don't get "lucky" with Event rolls the Apiata or the Indorians until the first wave of Constitution-Bs come out.
 
Nix said:
A starbase over Betazed would be one of the more useful things the development faction could spend those 50 pp on. Others include the unnamed mining colony option in the Tellar sector and an academy upgrade. An expansion of Utopia Planitia wouldn't be too bad either, but we don't really need more berths in the short to mid term.
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True.

I wonder how much PP we'd need to burn to put outposts over all our mining/research colonies? Not so much for the Defense requirement, but for the sensor network and for making raiding ops much more difficult.
 
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