- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's nice to see people who remember that diplomacy and tact matter.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Someplace USA
O btw something that's making me ... concerned
The implications implied make me think we need to be more focused on the ridged face monks.
The implications implied make me think we need to be more focused on the ridged face monks.
The first time we met them, we were told Cardassian ships were near constantly in orbit of Bajor. This shouldn't be too big a surprise.
I don't want to do more diplomatic pushes on Bajor*. I do not. Think of how we're feeling right now. Think of how relieved we'll be if it turns out not to be war. Try to turn Bajor into a Federation affiliate and it'll be immediate war for real. Those Cardassian fleets will be sweeping in to devastate our infrastructure for real. I would rather have them be Cardassian affiliates.
And I want to say here that Cardassian Affiliates /= Occupation. Hopefully there will be opportunities to head that off in some manner other than turning them into Federation affiliates.
*I voted for one push to keep the Cardassian on their toes and poke them. It was just one push, though. I wouldn't vote for a second.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
@AlphaDelta, you have my heartfelt thanks for your quick support. But please note that at this time there IS no "Plan Alpha Prime." I haven't even written the vitally important part of "where do you want Starfleet to go," yet.
Also, if I were naming the plan it would be "Plan Alpha Prime," to note that it is really just a more detailed and extensive version of Plan Alpha. It will not be named "Plan Alpha' ," because that would cause needless confusion and people might not easily be able to tell that it had a different name.
Nevertheless, I wanted to write this. Here are my reasons.
1) OOC, It feels like most of us are ignoring the member world fleets for strategic purposes. And we really do not want that, because they represent roughly 60% or so of our overall forces. We cannot possibly plan a defense of Federation space without putting some thought into what we do with the member worlds.
2) OOC, I want there to be discussion of what the member fleets should do in case of war, so that if the crisis blows up into a real state of emergency, we all have a pretty good idea of what we need to happen.
3) We want our defensive arrangements to be in place before the Cardassians arrive. The member world fleets need to know what is going on. We don't just need time to physically move the ships, we need time to take all possible precautions to protect key Federation worlds. The member fleets may want to do things like deploy sensor buoys to help increase their chances of spotting a cloaked ship. We the players do not know everything they might want to do, so it behooves us to give them some prep time, rather than keeping their planetary high command in the dark for weeks and then brusquely ordering their ships around the galaxy when there's barely time to get everything in order.
3a) In particular, Earth and Andor should be notified of our overall defensive plan before they do anything drastic like withdrawing their ships from Orion space, which they might very well do if they're alerted to the possibility of war and aren't told that they fit into a detailed, integrated plan which includes Starfleet measures to protect their homeworlds.
Also, if I were naming the plan it would be "Plan Alpha Prime," to note that it is really just a more detailed and extensive version of Plan Alpha. It will not be named "Plan Alpha' ," because that would cause needless confusion and people might not easily be able to tell that it had a different name.
I don't actually have a problem with waiting, which is one of several reasons that it is NOT a plan in the sense that you can vote for it. It is a partial draft of a plan.
Nevertheless, I wanted to write this. Here are my reasons.
1) OOC, It feels like most of us are ignoring the member world fleets for strategic purposes. And we really do not want that, because they represent roughly 60% or so of our overall forces. We cannot possibly plan a defense of Federation space without putting some thought into what we do with the member worlds.
2) OOC, I want there to be discussion of what the member fleets should do in case of war, so that if the crisis blows up into a real state of emergency, we all have a pretty good idea of what we need to happen.
3) We want our defensive arrangements to be in place before the Cardassians arrive. The member world fleets need to know what is going on. We don't just need time to physically move the ships, we need time to take all possible precautions to protect key Federation worlds. The member fleets may want to do things like deploy sensor buoys to help increase their chances of spotting a cloaked ship. We the players do not know everything they might want to do, so it behooves us to give them some prep time, rather than keeping their planetary high command in the dark for weeks and then brusquely ordering their ships around the galaxy when there's barely time to get everything in order.
3a) In particular, Earth and Andor should be notified of our overall defensive plan before they do anything drastic like withdrawing their ships from Orion space, which they might very well do if they're alerted to the possibility of war and aren't told that they fit into a detailed, integrated plan which includes Starfleet measures to protect their homeworlds.
I agree.
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- Location
- Patriarchova
I'm imagining Ke'Sharren confronting Gul Miran with a Risian armada. Its just too perfect.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
RSS Bird of Paradise moving into position! Tropic Thunder and Pina Colada, on me!
- Location
- Patriarchova
Of course, if Miran is actually defecting, this would also mean the best welcome party ever.
Either way, its perfect.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It's beautiful, and it's is almost enough to make me want to order the Enterprise toward Risa in the other half of my "Plan Alpha Prime" draft, but I honestly think we need that ship further 'forward.'
- Location
- Patriarchova
According to Memory Alpha, Bajor first fell into the Cardassian sphere of influence in 2309, and the occupation began sometime in the mid to late 2320's. While we've already deviated significantly from the canon timeline in some regards, the Bajoran dates appear to still be spot on (our intel says that they became "likely clients" of the Cardassians sometime during 2309).
So, assuming our actions don't cause the Cardassians to commence the occupation earlier, we still have over a decade to save Bajor.
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Omake - Project Ares - Ato
=Welcome to Galactapedia=
Project Ares was the abortive next generation cruiser development program overseen by Admiral Solomon Rogers in the late 23rd century.
Conceived as a replacement for the lighter Constellation class cruisers that many In Starfleet command felt were inadequate for the garrison and response roles they currently filled. The capabilities and specifications of the Ares design grew steadily along with the program's costs to wards the end of the 2290s.
(Image of the Ares Heavy cruiser as envisioned by the Ares Project Office in 2298.)
To justify the delays and overruns Admiral Rogers reported to the Federation council that the Ares could be used as a cheaper light explorer to supplement the existing and quite expensive Excelsiors and finally replace the ageing Constitution-A vessels.
Though the Ares was based heavily on existing Excelsior technology, and benefited from cost reduction in components developed for the new Centaur class escorts, the costs and resources allocated to the program kept ballooning as engineers at the Starship Design Bureau tried to fit what were essentially explorer class power generation and tactical systems on a much lighter hull.
In an effort to produce results on what was quickly becoming a resource black hole Admiral Rogers ordered a prototype vessel under construction before research on final systems was even complete. This 'concurrency' effort was announced as a way to include the most cutting edge equipment on Starfleet ships, and produce a vessel capable of serving for a generation.
However the results were chaos at the San Francisco shipyards and program office, as conflicts between designs and repeated revisions caused massive delays and even completed sections of the prototype had to be stripped and rebuilt from scratch.
Eventually in 2300 the Federation Council grew weary of Starfleet's excuses and launched an official investigation into the program, what they discovered shocked them. Far from the light explorer and garrison flagship they had been promised the Ares was a highly militarized design mounting firepower equal to an Excelsior's at the expense or almost any true science capability. Furthermore insiders with the Shipyard Design Bureau confided with investigators that resources had been diverted directly from Explorer construction to the Ares Heavy Cruiser program which had lead to the very low rate of Excelsior production.
Outraged at the blatant attempt to militarise Starfleet by constructing an offensive strike fleet, the majority of the council voted to relieve Admiral Rogers of his post, and brought Vice Admiral Vitalia Kahurangi out of sabbatical to ask her to assume command of Starfleet. The Ares program was summarily cancelled, and construction on the half completed prototype was halted when it was removed from it's berth.
Hull NX-2200 was the only example of the Ares class, and was to have been named USS Ares. Though the major hull components were finished, including the nacelle assemblies, many of the major systems including the warp core and plasma distribution system had yet to be installed or even completed at the time of cancellation.
The hull was towed to the Neptune Long Term Storage Depot in 2301, where it remains to this day. The NCC-2200 registry block that was originally to be assigned to the class has since been applied to the Riala class explorers of the Amarki Stellar Guard when they reached full Federation membership.
Project Ares remains as a painful reminder to Starfleet about the dangers of forgetting the Federation's ideals, and trying to accomplish too much with with a unfirm foundation of knowledge and preparation.
Ships in class:
USS Ares NX-2200 2301-Cancelled
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Here is an idea about the straw that broke the camel's back regarding our predecessor's actions in militarizing Starfleet. It would explain why we started with so few Excelsiors, as he was building up a stockpile of resources to instead launch a fleet of gun laden Heavy Cruisers.
Here is the projected Ares statblock: (This has no basis in the ship design spreadsheet)
Ares class Heavy Cruiser [410m, 1.8mt]
C6 S1 H4 L5 P4 D6
I couldn't find a name for the preceding Admiral, so I made one up, If there is a correct one, please tell me.
Project Ares
Project Ares was the abortive next generation cruiser development program overseen by Admiral Solomon Rogers in the late 23rd century.
Conceived as a replacement for the lighter Constellation class cruisers that many In Starfleet command felt were inadequate for the garrison and response roles they currently filled. The capabilities and specifications of the Ares design grew steadily along with the program's costs to wards the end of the 2290s.
(Image of the Ares Heavy cruiser as envisioned by the Ares Project Office in 2298.)
To justify the delays and overruns Admiral Rogers reported to the Federation council that the Ares could be used as a cheaper light explorer to supplement the existing and quite expensive Excelsiors and finally replace the ageing Constitution-A vessels.
Though the Ares was based heavily on existing Excelsior technology, and benefited from cost reduction in components developed for the new Centaur class escorts, the costs and resources allocated to the program kept ballooning as engineers at the Starship Design Bureau tried to fit what were essentially explorer class power generation and tactical systems on a much lighter hull.
In an effort to produce results on what was quickly becoming a resource black hole Admiral Rogers ordered a prototype vessel under construction before research on final systems was even complete. This 'concurrency' effort was announced as a way to include the most cutting edge equipment on Starfleet ships, and produce a vessel capable of serving for a generation.
However the results were chaos at the San Francisco shipyards and program office, as conflicts between designs and repeated revisions caused massive delays and even completed sections of the prototype had to be stripped and rebuilt from scratch.
Eventually in 2300 the Federation Council grew weary of Starfleet's excuses and launched an official investigation into the program, what they discovered shocked them. Far from the light explorer and garrison flagship they had been promised the Ares was a highly militarized design mounting firepower equal to an Excelsior's at the expense or almost any true science capability. Furthermore insiders with the Shipyard Design Bureau confided with investigators that resources had been diverted directly from Explorer construction to the Ares Heavy Cruiser program which had lead to the very low rate of Excelsior production.
Outraged at the blatant attempt to militarise Starfleet by constructing an offensive strike fleet, the majority of the council voted to relieve Admiral Rogers of his post, and brought Vice Admiral Vitalia Kahurangi out of sabbatical to ask her to assume command of Starfleet. The Ares program was summarily cancelled, and construction on the half completed prototype was halted when it was removed from it's berth.
Hull NX-2200 was the only example of the Ares class, and was to have been named USS Ares. Though the major hull components were finished, including the nacelle assemblies, many of the major systems including the warp core and plasma distribution system had yet to be installed or even completed at the time of cancellation.
The hull was towed to the Neptune Long Term Storage Depot in 2301, where it remains to this day. The NCC-2200 registry block that was originally to be assigned to the class has since been applied to the Riala class explorers of the Amarki Stellar Guard when they reached full Federation membership.
Project Ares remains as a painful reminder to Starfleet about the dangers of forgetting the Federation's ideals, and trying to accomplish too much with with a unfirm foundation of knowledge and preparation.
Ships in class:
USS Ares NX-2200 2301-Cancelled
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is an idea about the straw that broke the camel's back regarding our predecessor's actions in militarizing Starfleet. It would explain why we started with so few Excelsiors, as he was building up a stockpile of resources to instead launch a fleet of gun laden Heavy Cruisers.
Here is the projected Ares statblock: (This has no basis in the ship design spreadsheet)
Ares class Heavy Cruiser [410m, 1.8mt]
C6 S1 H4 L5 P4 D6
I couldn't find a name for the preceding Admiral, so I made one up, If there is a correct one, please tell me.
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Though if you could see things from a really long term perspective, if you could see the entire sweep of history like a Q... I wonder if stopping the Occupation would even be a good idea. It seems to me one of those classical "creative destruction" scenarios where 1000 years hence historians will stroke their chins and talk about all the good it did long term. How it ended the caste system choking the planet, how it opened Bajor up to the wider galaxy and reinvigorated their culture, etc., etc. Terrible for the people who had to live through it BUT....
Probably like how historians talk about the atomic wars that devastated Earth pre-Vulcan contact and ask if humanity could ever have changed without that experience.
Probably like how historians talk about the atomic wars that devastated Earth pre-Vulcan contact and ask if humanity could ever have changed without that experience.
- Location
- Germany
I kinda trust the Federations non-military assets to change things like that over time.
They are not in a position to really ignore the larger galaxy anymore. And long enough contact will change the culture anyway.
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
Yea, just look at the progress we're making with the Apiata.
Cool thanks. I got surname beginning with R right at least XD.
aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Love your kit bashing. Great look for the new Escort, and I agree that New Orleans is too Earth centric a name.Yeah the Renaissance could perhaps go down a tiny bit more, but I figure that its increased size despite having the same mass as the Connie can be put down to improvements in technology allowing weight savings in the heavy warp engines and such.
Here is my redesigned New Orleans. Actually whilst we are on this topic how do people feel about renaming the class entirely?
Nifty write up on the Ares class. That stat line is quite doable at that size with ToC tech levels too.
- Location
- Patriarchova
...how the hell did he think he was going to get away with that? Was he planning a goddamned coup?
There is a better way to modernize Bajor. There has to be. Even if it takes longer.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
NOTE:
I am now starting work on actual ship deployment instructions for Starfleet proper, pursuant to the "Alpha Prime" plan draft. They may not be ready for some hours. I would very, very much like to ask for others' thoughts and comments on either the material I already posted (about the member worlds), or about the ship orders (when they're ready).
What I write, I write without prejudice to anyone else's ideas. I am only trying to come up with detailed implementation for Plan Alpha.
I am now starting work on actual ship deployment instructions for Starfleet proper, pursuant to the "Alpha Prime" plan draft. They may not be ready for some hours. I would very, very much like to ask for others' thoughts and comments on either the material I already posted (about the member worlds), or about the ship orders (when they're ready).
What I write, I write without prejudice to anyone else's ideas. I am only trying to come up with detailed implementation for Plan Alpha.
I imagine the Federation Council asked much the same question. This may help to explain why we have such a pared-down fleet in the aftermath of Rogers' dismissal- because Starfleet was cut down, by scrapping if necessary, to a force small enough that the member worlds could collectively dogpile it and bludgeon it into submission.
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Jenny
anonymous user
- Location
- maryland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
:«O
How it ruthlessly extracted Bajoran mineral wealth, leaving a strip-mined resource-poor homeworld that struggled with issues as basic as agriculture? How it looted Bajor of her cultural artifacts? Pre-Occupation Bajor may have been an insular caste society, but a fifty-year colonial occupation is surely not the best way to change that. (Especially when there's a far better explanation for long-term Bajoran success in the canon TL - the Wormhole, and its effects on Bajoran commerce and culture).
Acatalepsy
Firewall Proxy
- Location
- The Diamond Age
I mean, do they talk about it like that? That sounds like a pretty bullshit interpretation of events. Of the things that improve human society, "violent nuclear conflict" is not on the list. The idea that we needed to go through historical disasters and tragedies reads more like sour grapes than real analysis.
I'm still trying to catch up with the full present situation. There's a lot of stuff to go through. Is there a good "here is the context of things" post?
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
At which point it becomes a cruiser sized excelsior which we could easily do right now but what's the point when it will eat the same berth size and cost us political capital.
My thoughts on the New Orleans design: since the probably most distinctive feature of the New Orleans is the bottom launcher, I have a proposal for a better scaled design that looks more contemporary!
My thoughts are: Looks fuckin' great, only quibble is from a practical angle -- I think that mission pod could be raised a little higher b/c right now it looks like it could take out the bridge.
Plenty of real world historians have talked about the conquests of Alexander the Great or the Mongol Empire in exactly that way.