To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Australia
Look, I just want you to think very carefully about any advocating of biological warfare that you want to make. Ideally thinking quietly, sitting patiently for the master-at-arms to come fetch you for the brig.
- Location
- madison
it's a computer virus. though given we're up against weird AI's and nanotech embedded opposition there may not be much of a difference.
- Location
- Australia
In this instance there is considerable crossover. Your final actions here still need to keep in mind that Singers are still sentient lifeforms (much as data is) and thus are not valid extermination targets. In much the same way that mentats were not exterminated; production of further mentats was simply prohibited. In and of itself there are some problematic aspects to that in terms of extinguishing a unique subculture of a planet, but something-something inter stella perdere enim silent leges.
Oh it's worse than that, they're advocating releasing the computer-virus equivelent of the Biophage here. It's a virus from the Megaman Zero games that makes the boss keep coming back to be destroyed over and over again, letting him infect and pervert system after system to his need and desires. What really gets my goat is that they're advocating so ineffective a computer virus, it's more like a biophage that can only infect people with A-type blood...
So the new Renaissance-A variants use:
Model 83 Phaserbanks, built at Tales Har Nadionworks
Mark IV Burst Torpedoes, built at Tellar Prime Tactical Plant
Mark-VII Heavy SR Lateral Sensors, built at Selindra
Miranda Science Module for Long Range and Navigational Sensors, built ???? but my guess is the Vulcan Sensor Facility
Mark IV and Mark VI shields, likely both produced at 40 Eridani Field Systems
Type III Duotronic Tac Computer and Type V Duotronic Main Core, likely both sources from Tellar Prime Processors
SDB-09 High-Power Impulse drive, produced at New Seoul Kinematics
ONA-IV-M Warp Core, probably produced at Venus
And that's the most critical stuff in a war. Antimatter is antimatter and probably non-Starfleet facilities can ramp up fast, and they'll just throw any old transporters and sick bays in if they have to.
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- Location
- madison
huh, you know that actually raises an interesting point. all singers are guilty of crimes against sentence due to the way they coordinate. If a full accounting of those crimes reveals that they have reached the point where an execution is warranted, is that a genocide? would sparing them because they all committed those crimes be a perversion of justice?
- Location
- Australia
Some Fleet pages also list existing infrastructure. Eg, the Amarkians have:
Infrastructure[edit]
Infrastructure[edit]
- Three Lilies Fall Enclave - A highly secretive facility near Leas Akaam that builds the Amarkian warp cores, with a line for ONA-IV-L Standards used by Centaur-B and new build Anacails, plus a line for the Yoyodyne Type-I Block-A used by the Mielab.
- The Lircab Armoury - A facility in orbit around Dzinghi VI that produces shield emitters, preparing Amarkian equivalents of the Mk V family.
- Storms On High Enclave - A facility at Tales Har that produces the Model 83 phaser bank for all current Amarkian designs.
- Wings Over Lironh Enclave - A facility in Amarkian lunar orbit that produces nacelles for all construction.
- Order of Knights Hospitaller Selindra - A facility in Selindra orbit that produces all required medical equipment
- Forgotten Winds Stir Enclave - A new warp core facility in Gaiar Har that is supplementing ONA-IV-L Standard production, but will also be the site for construction of new battlecruiser warp cores.
Well, the Federation considers the death penalty a prima facie injustice, so...
- Location
- madison
ah, still another what if to throw at philosophy students.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
We cannot and should not consider the Singers to be subject toe execution for 'crimes.' And quite frankly given their origins they've turned out no worse than I'd have expected, so I think that on some cosmic level, killing them would be unfair.
The problem is mainly in finding a way that the surrounding galaxy can feel safe with them alive. When dealing with a merely human being, this isn't a problem; humans can always be effectively contained and restrained from harming other humans if you're motivated enough to try.
But things are tougher when dealing with the Singers. We don't know enough to know if they can be forced to stay away from harassing or intruding on other civilizations without violent countermeasures. And we DO know enough about their history of lying to people or going back on their word that we can't simply trust them AT their word if they promise to stop. Not without a way to verify that we're safe.
I mean, just to be clear, I'm not overtly denying the point that the Federation can maintain industrial output even if key targets and centralized facilities. But... to not call it a "crippling blow" forces us down into the weeds of what you mean by 'cripple.'
It's like, severe damage one of a man's arms is a "crippling blow" in a fight; after that, he's crippled. Plain English. That doesn't mean it's literally impossible for a man with one working arm to fight, or even to win the fight... but it's a HELL of a lot harder and it greatly reduces any advantages of size or strength he previously enjoyed over his opponent.
...
Basically, it would be grotesque, unconscionable arrogance to take for granted that our reserve industrial capacity grants us effective immunity to the kind of targeted attacks against our most sensitive and weakest points that can be enabled by a well-armed and competent enemy having this much access to information on us.
Especially in a war where some of our member states may even be starting to wonder if they're the baddies and the Harmony are the unjustly accused innocents, because of the Harmony being legitimately good at diplomacy and infiltration.
...
Again, remember what happened when the Lecarre captured working sets of our latest-generation sensor equipment. We lost ships. If a general war had been underway we'd have lost some major battles.
This is worse.
The problem is mainly in finding a way that the surrounding galaxy can feel safe with them alive. When dealing with a merely human being, this isn't a problem; humans can always be effectively contained and restrained from harming other humans if you're motivated enough to try.
But things are tougher when dealing with the Singers. We don't know enough to know if they can be forced to stay away from harassing or intruding on other civilizations without violent countermeasures. And we DO know enough about their history of lying to people or going back on their word that we can't simply trust them AT their word if they promise to stop. Not without a way to verify that we're safe.
Further complication, just to mention in passing: the old legacy equipment many of our newer members are using isn't necessarily compatible with Federation ship designs. The Amarki (and Caitians, and so on) have a factory that can make explorer warp core assemblies, but they probably wouldn't fit in or be suitable for powering an Excelsior or Ambassador. Even if they have the reactor output, just the fact that they're the wrong shape or something might well require radical redesign of our ship classes to make use of the equipment produced by legacy facilities. And doing this in parallel across the Federation would in turn result
I mean, just to be clear, I'm not overtly denying the point that the Federation can maintain industrial output even if key targets and centralized facilities. But... to not call it a "crippling blow" forces us down into the weeds of what you mean by 'cripple.'
It's like, severe damage one of a man's arms is a "crippling blow" in a fight; after that, he's crippled. Plain English. That doesn't mean it's literally impossible for a man with one working arm to fight, or even to win the fight... but it's a HELL of a lot harder and it greatly reduces any advantages of size or strength he previously enjoyed over his opponent.
...
Basically, it would be grotesque, unconscionable arrogance to take for granted that our reserve industrial capacity grants us effective immunity to the kind of targeted attacks against our most sensitive and weakest points that can be enabled by a well-armed and competent enemy having this much access to information on us.
Especially in a war where some of our member states may even be starting to wonder if they're the baddies and the Harmony are the unjustly accused innocents, because of the Harmony being legitimately good at diplomacy and infiltration.
...
Again, remember what happened when the Lecarre captured working sets of our latest-generation sensor equipment. We lost ships. If a general war had been underway we'd have lost some major battles.
This is worse.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Something horrifying to think about is that the Singer's send psychic thing can be duplicated. That's trivially one superweapon - Maybe one could use it to send a 'deactivate' signal to the receive psychic portion?
Like how some patches elegantly use the holes in computing code to fix the hole in the code.
Like how some patches elegantly use the holes in computing code to fix the hole in the code.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yes, but if it only works on people who have the implant, we just need to screen for the implant. The problem is if it doesn't and they can mind-control people not implanted... though if that were the case I'd expect them to spam the capability harder.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Even more horrifying is if you put a mentat on this.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
Which is complicated by the fact we have subjected people we know have the implants to the standard battery of scans and found zero signs of the tech. Hopefully we can get a special science project for it like with the Biophage, or it'll be even more troublesome to contain the subversion.
Well, as we just saw from Onerios's summary of some Amarki facilities, they produce many Starfleet-standard parts because ships have been slowly moving over to Starfleet standards. The longer each fleet remains an independent service while being a Federation member the more standardized their parts are going to be. Like, the Amarki use Mark 83 phasers in full right now! Those aren't even cutting edge, they're just our most common design. Even Amarki-only ships like the Mielab and Anacail are now Starfleet-standard parts, the Riala-A was built with Federation technology and the Riala-B and next-generation battleship and cruiser will probably standardize completely. Sure, the nacelles might be a different shape or whatever but there's actually a lot more similarity in our current fleet structure than you might think at first glance.
Given the modernization programs in place for larger services, the Amarki, STO, and Caitians at the very least should have almost entirely shifted to Federation-standard with only maintenance on current ships still running old parts lines. The Asharra N'Gir is Federation tech, the STO new builds are all Federation-standard designs, the Caitians run Excelsiors. Yeah, the STO will still maintain facilities for unique lines of ships like the Sunrise and Audacious classes, and the entire Apiata navy is a good example of that too although the JAFFA project means they're in preparation to phase out the entire Stinger line.
Out of the smaller services, Rigel is building Anacails right now that use Federation-standard parts and there's no sign at all of refits for the Turtleship line, which might signify a desire to replace instead of continue. The Gaeni are adopting the Kepler and as their older frigates are retired they're phased out instead of being replaced with more Gaeni ships. The Caldonians have a full Federation-standard frigate service. The Honiani production facilities are probably troublesome and we won't see Federation-standard there until they begin to adopt Federation designs (which they should because their frigates are crap), but I would expect the Ked Paddah to have a strong drive towards standardization as prudent, even if it is inefficient in the short term. Risa isn't standardizing but they're Risa. The Liao probably maintain their own explorer-grade facilities so that's going to be a while, but I wouldn't be surprised if they start Federation-standard frigate designs since those are so gosh darn handy for everyone. Even the Orions are building Keplers and Centaurs.
The short of it is, when it comes to Federation-standard infrastructure and frigate-scale infrastructure especially there's been a very strong push towards adopting the super-useful Federation designs and most new builds are Federation-standard right now! Heck, I think the majority of current services have facilities and the industrial base to build Centaur-Bs and some can even spam them, and that alone is significant as the design is still decently efficient if not as perfectly efficient as a new design. Yeah, only the STO can currently facilitate Ambassador builds, but that's not exactly a wartime design.
Don't take this as me saying it's easy, I absolutely already did acknowledge that blows to infrastructure are still, well, blows to infrastructure. But our members and how the federal structure allows them independence is one of our primary strengths. Failing to acknowledge that by wringing hands over UP or something is silly. It's simultaneously a lot harder than snapping fingers and a lot easier than you think.
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- Location
- Australia
Caldonians are still making an indigenously designed and produced mid-weight science cruiser.
From memory of the various plans, the Ked Paddah only recently built their Orah fleet, so they may not be in any great hurry to replace all those frigates. Two schools of thought at play - prudent to maintain standardisation for efficiency benefits, but also helpful to maintain their own tech base if they can to avoid the danger of a repeat of the Caitian Sensor Theft crisis.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Indeed. With a possible anti-pirate, anti-cloaked-BoP H/K refit for the older model available to order in 2326 MWCD.
And they've got about 19 Orah frigates, quite a considerable fleet.
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
When we joked about blotting out the stars with ships I didn't think it would be a literal description.
I never knew Stesk could frown so hard.
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Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
Nope.
"It is expected that a CD + 1, HL + 2 refit for 40br/25sr will extend the operational lifetime of these ships in RDS service."
A similar fiat refit is planned for the Megatortise.
Well, I missed it, but good. The darn things need it. But nevertheless we're speaking mostly to frigates here, and Federation frigates or Federation-designed frigates have proven quite popular.
75% Certain
25% horse thief
They have a "plan" in the same sense that the Cylons had a "plan." An exceedingly generous sense.
He's understandably upset, but I'm sure the Singer controlling him is distressed as well!
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
And even if they are not making the parts, if they are taking advantage of Starfleet tech bonuses, then they are at least installing federation or federation compatible fabrication equipment. That is not to say it makes the changeover fast, but it should make it faster than if we were trying to use Cardassian gear instead.
As a minimum, we have prepped enough that we can use member world burths for repairs with politics and scheduling being the limiting factor, not capabilities.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Species 8472: You are - adaequate.That, or their immune systems keep walking up to the nanotech IN the implants, calling it a wuss, and kicking sand in its face.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Also
@AKuz What say you, oh innocent-looking seamstress?
I am sure the Romulans are only doing this to prevent the HoH from infiltrating our computers. And if they happen to get some blueprints for themselves, well, that's just their reward for a job well done, isn't it?
@AKuz What say you, oh innocent-looking seamstress?
75% Certain
25% horse thief
If the Romulans felt like doing us a favor, they would have just told us something. Anything.
They didn't.
Perhaps they feared that we were compromised, and felt that they couldn't take the risk of potentially tipping their hand to the HoH and revealing how much they had figured out. More likely, however, is that the Romulans see the massive expansion of the Federation as an alarming development and would love to see us stumble before we eclipse the Star Empire entirely.
They didn't.
Perhaps they feared that we were compromised, and felt that they couldn't take the risk of potentially tipping their hand to the HoH and revealing how much they had figured out. More likely, however, is that the Romulans see the massive expansion of the Federation as an alarming development and would love to see us stumble before we eclipse the Star Empire entirely.