And then he somehow reappears aboard the Stargazer.
… that doesn't follow. Stargazer has already left the galactic plane so the possibility of Linderly and his followers encountering it would be so infinitesimally minuscule that it can be dismissed outright. A more likely possibility is that he would start acting in what he believes is in the interests of the Federation even if said actions are unpalatable to the Federation proper if brought to light. To put it bluntly, I suspect that he will found what will, in the Next Generation, be referred to as Section 31.
 
… that doesn't follow. Stargazer has already left the galactic plane so the possibility of Linderly and his followers encountering it would be so infinitesimally minuscule that it can be dismissed outright. A more likely possibility is that he would start acting in what he believes is in the interests of the Federation even if said actions are unpalatable to the Federation proper if brought to light. To put it bluntly, I suspect that he will found what will, in the Next Generation, be referred to as Section 31.

Linderley is not a traitor.

Linderley is magical.

So, Section 31 no, Stargazer yes.
 
I can't help it, every time those lines above the Gaeni look like stink lines to me. Like he's implied to have been rolling in manure or something!

Presumably he just came fresh from several hours in the chem lab. Those smell plenty, and would also explain the scorchmarks.

I think it is worth examining the other side of the question our shark-in-chief is asking us: how would we like the combat system to change?

One thing that I'd find interesting is if Presence could be somehow made relevant in or at least adjacent to combat; Specifically for convincing a losing enemy to retreat or surrender.

The difference between primary and secondary roles is confusing to me. A secondary role is a role where the ship doesn't fit the requirements, but we're going to use it in that role anyway?

What do you intend to be the difference between a primary and s secondary role?

At a guess, Primary Roles are ones that a ship is primarily built for, meets the stat minimums for or even beats them handily, and is preferentially called on to perform if needed (both in that if we have spare ships we'll sort it into those roles if possible, and if we have multiple equally important roles open we first fill those which we have primary responders for).
Secondary Roles are ones that the ship may not necessarily formally fill the stat requirements for, and which are not a primary consideration when designing the ship, but for which it may qualify due to the capabilities it has from it's primary roles at least well enough that it can fill them with a minimum of competence if there are no, or not enough, primary responders. Say, an S5 general frigate compared to an S7-9 Kepler or Aphelion in the Science Ship or Fleet Scout roles. It's not optimal, not the best we have, but it's technically good enough to not fail, if not to thrive.

Would you like it if separate stat minimums for filling a role as secondary or as primary responder were added? Personally I'd say those are just needless clutter and can be approximated easily enough by looking at the current (Primary) stat requirements, but you might disagree.

If the Constellation-A and Consitiution-B are adequately filling the role of support cruiser, why does no one want to be building any more of them? Why am I not getting told, "Briefvoice, you really need to put more support cruisers in your build plan"?

If no one wants them because General Cruisers are always better, why do we have a Support Cruiser profile? If Support Cruisers are sometimes better, what about them needs to change so that they are desirable to build?

As I see it, the system is as much a descriptive one, categorizing what we have right now, as it is a proscriptive one, categorizing what we want to have. So we don't have to build further Constellations and Costitutions for it to be desirable to classify them separately from Renaissances, because the reason we want to do that is that we already have them and we want them to stay home as garrison instead of going to the frontlines and fight.
 
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So let me comment on SWB's plan, and discuss possible modifications.
And I'll add my own thoughts, if that's okay.

I disagree that primary frontier response and primary sector response need to be different roles. Also, I question the point of including the emergency response role if:

A. You're not to include any stat minimums for emergency response.
B. Emergency response is going on every ship automatically.
Agree with all this-sector response and frontier response are basically the same thing unless we include having a rec part in our requirements for frontier response. Emergency response is also a thing where it's not clear if any stat other than D actually matters-the emergency responded to could be anything from disease outbreak among the crew of a ship to engine failure to pirates, though I don't know if the event system simulates those possibilities.

The difference between primary and secondary roles is confusing to me. A secondary role is a role where the ship doesn't fit the requirements, but we're going to use it in that role anyway?

What do you intend to be the difference between a primary and s secondary role?
Semantics matter here. We need to communicate what a secondary role is clearly-to me, it's a role that while not a primary design consideration, can be adequately filled with either a slight tweak in the design phase or which is fulfilled accidentally by primary roles.

Question we should ask ourselves:

If the Constellation-A and Consitiution-B are adequately filling the role of support cruiser, why does no one want to be building any more of them? Why am I not getting told, "Briefvoice, you really need to put more support cruisers in your build plan"?

If no one wants them because General Cruisers are always better, why do we have a Support Cruiser profile? If Support Cruisers are sometimes better, what about them needs to change so that they are desirable to build?

Should support cruisers have a Crew/SR requirement?
I mean, the Constellation-A isn't great as a support cruiser, and we have so many irons in the fire that it becomes something of a luxury class. A purpose-build Support cruiser would offer a more capable Science/Presence garrison ship than the Reneisance at the price of durability and combat capability, the ideal Pacifist starship. However, since it's a luxury class, there should absolutely be a Crew/ SR cap on it. Where the cap should lie is a good question.

How does this justify both a Centaur-B refit and a new generalist frigate project?

Isn't a P4 excessive for the roles you have outlined? The only role where Presence is a necessity is garrison response?

If a Generalist frigate is the only profile capable of filling the Skirmish line role, shouldn't it have a minimum Combat?
Absolute agreement on the need for minimum combat here-it's a jack of ALL trades, we should probably require both torpedo and phaser parts to boot. :p More seriously, the Generalist is gonna be a big frigate, but also one we're gonna want to mass produce. On the other hand, is P4 really that expensive on it's own terms?

Do we really not want to improve the combat frigate requirements? Because right now the Miranda-A is completely falling behind all our peer powers.
We could 'legacy' classify the Mirandas for now, but we are certainly in need of a new combat frigate. Should we enforce size controls or let it grow to the 1000 kt max size? Should we cost and crew control a relatively specialized design, or spend to make it more capable in peacetime? Do we want to build it faster, or at the normal speed for our ships? Do we prioritize redundancy and survivability over power and sensors, or vice versa? This is a category where we have a lot of issues to hash out and need to do so.

Additionally, there are a grab-bag of designs (Fatherships, Queenships, Turtleships, Swarmers, Patrollers) in our member fleets that Starfleet does not operate but which have their own unique roles that they may fill in a united fleet. Shouldn't we design our doctrine with room for our member fleets to contribute, and roles for their ships to slot into without undue effort? When a Centaur-B and a Patroller-A are in squadron together, who takes the lead, and who hangs back? Add a Appiatia swarmer and...well it's complex to say the least. We need jobs for these ships to do when we're operating together, even if we don't operate any ourselves. The requirement to 'fill' a role complicates this.
 
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Linderley is not a traitor.

Linderley is magical.

So, Section 31 no, Stargazer yes.
He's a spy, so underhanded actions are par and parcel to the job. Then there is disillusionment to consider, for he has worked upon his job faithfully, yet all his work is sabotaged by one of the member worlds, one which in a way, was rewarded for said treachery with the presidency, while he must take the fall.
 
He's a spy, so underhanded actions are par and parcel to the job. Then there is disillusionment to consider, for he has worked upon his job faithfully, yet all his work is sabotaged by one of the member worlds, one which in a way, was rewarded for said treachery with the presidency, while he must take the fall.

I honestly see it the opposite.

If Linderley had resigned out of disgust at starfleet's refusal to make the hard choices, or was fired because he went too far, section 31 would make sense. But that's not what happened. He recognized that he made a critical oversight, and that a resignation might be in order. In such a situation, he'd be LESS likely to think himself qualified to run an unaccountable secret society, not more.
 
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I'm pretty sure if Linderley was approached by S31 he'd anger-flex so hard his shirt would rip and then he'd proceed to suplex them into the mantle of whatever planet they were standing on. It's like, exactly the sort of organization he'd hate. He chose to resign because he didn't fear the consequences otherwise, but because he felt he had to be accountable. S31 is the opposite of that.
 
He's a spy, so underhanded actions are par and parcel to the job. Then there is disillusionment to consider, for he has worked upon his job faithfully, yet all his work is sabotaged by one of the member worlds, one which in a way, was rewarded for said treachery with the presidency, while he must take the fall.

Put differently, he freely handed in his unasked-for resignation because he is so loyal. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have seen it as his duty to do it.
 
It's COINTEL. Linderley wanted to retire but saw an opportunity for One Last Big Operation before he settled down on a beach on Risa. He took advantage of a political situation and a crisis to engineer a departure from SFI on bad terms and used that as a motivation to join Section 31. Five years from now he's going to walk into Sulu's office and deliver a list of every person involved in Section 31 along with evidence that will tear the pillar out from under them and put them all behind bars.
 
I mean, the Constellation-A isn't great as a support cruiser, and we have so many irons in the fire that it becomes something of a luxury class. A purpose-build Support cruiser would offer a more capable Science/Presence garrison ship than the Reneisance at the price of durability and combat capability, the ideal Pacifist starship. However, since it's a luxury class, there should absolutely be a Crew/ SR cap on it. Where the cap should lie is a good question.

Basically the Kepler fills this role. Because of how ships are built (has to do with Subframes) Frigates fill this role a bit better until we get to big cruisers.

"Support cruiser" is basically code for "old cruiser that's no longer suited to Frontline roles."
 
Linderley is not a traitor.

Linderley is magical.

So, Section 31 no, Stargazer yes.
Linderley's magic is such that if he joins Section 31, he'll turn it into a constructive and helpful part of the Federation. With review and accountability procedures.

The method to operate the reactor consisted of torturing the mentat who built it until he turned on voice commands and told them how to tap it, at which point they dissected him.

They'd just developed electricity. They absolutely were not ready for that technology. Also, it was literally going to kill all of them in like, a week.
Very much agreed. I mean, look at the log. T'Rinta didn't really even talk about the Prime Directive. She talked about how the reactor was a dangerously radioactive ticking bomb that was going to destroy all advanced life on the planet. There was no way to make it safe without, say, taking it away and replacing it with a safer one and an instruction manual for how to operate it, which would damn sure be interference of the kind that General Order One really does exist to



So let me comment on SWB's plan, and discuss possible modifications.

Okay, so that seems fine.

I disagree that primary frontier response and primary sector response need to be different roles. Also, I question the point of including the emergency response role if:

A. You're not to include any stat minimums for emergency response.
B. Emergency response is going on every ship automatically.
I think the idea is that some day, we may want to differentiate. Say, create a special 'flying squadron' of hellafast ships that can reinforce any threatened sector very quickly.

Or we could even differentiate right now, and say "cruisers or explorers with Defense 5 or higher." SWB explicitly said he was drafting it, and was tired, so it's no surprise a few details got left out.

Likewise, the 'frontier' and 'sector' roles. It makes sense to designate some ships as being powerful enough fighters that it's "safe" to use them on the frontiers as event responders (e.g. Rennies), while others are too weak to be placed there (e.g. Constellation-As). We've already adopted this policy de facto; codifying it seems sensible.

I'd rather have every conceivable role, and have a given ship valid for several of them, than artificially limit the number of roles.

The difference between primary and secondary roles is confusing to me. A secondary role is a role where the ship doesn't fit the requirements, but we're going to use it in that role anyway?

What do you intend to be the difference between a primary and s secondary role?
Seems fairly clear to me.

Secondary roles are roles in which a ship is marginally capable, but not a preferred choice. The way a Constitution-B might be "capable" of serving as a fighting cruiser in ten years' time, even though we might rather not risk one in that capacity. Because against a lot of the ships then extant, the ConnieBee would predictably be outgunned. We can put them in battle fleets to serve as the vanguard, but it would be something of an emergency measure.

Thus, we might designate the ConnieBee as a "support cruiser," one that CAN fight but should normally be kept out of battle. The Constellation-A already occupies this status, likewise. If we were desperate we could order Constellation-As into battle, but we'd have to be pretty desperate.

The 'secondary role' list supports this concept.

Question we should ask ourselves:

If the Constellation-A and Consitiution-B are adequately filling the role of support cruiser, why does no one want to be building any more of them? Why am I not getting told, "Briefvoice, you really need to put more support cruisers in your build plan"?
Because "support cruiser" is a role that defines what we do with ship designs that are in a real sense obsolete, that can no longer compete with the powerful ships of our worst enemies... But that aren't yet ready for the scrapyard, and can still perform useful duties as utility ships in relatively secure space.

If no one wants them because General Cruisers are always better, why do we have a Support Cruiser profile? If Support Cruisers are sometimes better, what about them needs to change so that they are desirable to build?

Should support cruisers have a Crew/SR requirement?
Probably not. "Support cruiser" is a profile that exists so that we have a clear doctrinal mission for older ships, not a separate mission for which we should custom-design new ships. It's a way of communicating "this ship is still valuable and can contribute, but not at the same level it used to, and not in all the ways it might once have done."

How does this justify both a Centaur-B refit and a new generalist frigate project?
That's trivially easy. We want a new frigate, but that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't refit the old ones. The existing large Centaur-A force will need the refit to remain relevant through the 2320s and into the '30s, but Starfleet as a whole will need the new design to ensure cost-effective production of a growing frigate force that can screen the battleline and cover all the sectors it needs.

Building the new frigate without refitting the old ones means we're needlessly casting away a useful asset. Refitting the old without building the new handicaps our future fleet in much the same way that relying on Constellation-As and ConnieBees instead of Renaissances would.

Do we really not want to improve the combat frigate requirements? Because right now the Miranda-A is completely falling behind all our peer powers.
That's a valid consideration
 
Question we should ask ourselves:

If the Constellation-A and Consitiution-B are adequately filling the role of support cruiser, why does no one want to be building any more of them? Why am I not getting told, "Briefvoice, you really need to put more support cruisers in your build plan"?

If no one wants them because General Cruisers are always better, why do we have a Support Cruiser profile? If Support Cruisers are sometimes better, what about them needs to change so that they are desirable to build?
We did want more Constellation-As, one for every interior sector to be exact. If there is a natural number of ships in a certain profile to want to have and you have enough of them to reach that number then there is nothing that needs to be explained about not wishing for more of them.

You could make the argument that the Constitution-B doesn't actually belong to this profile, but this system is also supposed to define how we are going to use our ships, and perhaps the support cruiser profile comes closest to how we want to use the Constellation-Bs until they are retired. On the other hand the Constellation-A is known to be small enough to be skirmish-capable and stats relatively well suited for it so if the Constitution-B were to be be moved somewhere else we could add skirmish line as secondary role to this profile.
 
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The method to operate the reactor consisted of torturing the mentat who built it until he turned on voice commands and told them how to tap it, at which point they dissected him.

They'd just developed electricity. They absolutely were not ready for that technology. Also, it was literally going to kill all of them in like, a week.

Yes, and even then the method employed was silly and over-complicated that, ultimately, was a big solid insult to their intelligence if it had worked. as we saw, it didn't and the captain had to talk to the security personnel.

Certainly the reactor was a time bomb that had to be neutralized, I am not debating that. The methods and the, well: not ready for tech excuse. Quite frankly that is always the case with all tech. so this is always the case and makes it a pointless excuse.
While, here, it is more tied with the extinction bomb thing and unforeseen consequences the reactor might have (continuous operation, lack of spares and what not, which even with the initial instability would lead to the bomb issue)

Of course, the whole less limbs less capable is a stupid argument if they found licori in the ship, the dissection is also a stupid cliche that is a bit nonsensical at best (autopsies are all and fine, but how much can you get from a dissection of a living specimen? specially somebody that is from an advanced tech) so, odds are the mentat survived and was probably coerced to power the reactor... but how would they know about the reactor? did the mentat tell them? was he able to reach an alien species and alien measuring systems to explain what a boon that reactor was? or the implications both positive and negative (the bomb thing)
But, let's assume they understood of the reactor and then... why would they dissect him? I'd say odds are he died of his wounds, or even due to mentat complications.

Like I said, this is one of those poor plotted prime directive dilemmas that are ussually a miss with the fans (like me)
 
So I'm doing an altered version of SWB's plan.

[X] Plan Roles, Profile, and Ship Classes

Definitions

1. A "Role" is a mission type that Starfleet believes its ships must undertake. A Role should be filled by a ship Profile; unfilled Roles are indications of a lack of current or future capability. Roles become unfilled in one of two ways:
a. A new role appears that was not previously considered (rare)
b. As technology increases, the minimum satisfactory stat requirements for a role increase, and existing ship designs no longer fill the requirement when compared to the dangers of the galaxy and/or the ships of our peer powers (most common)

2. A "Profile" is a description of a ship which is meant to form one or more roles. Note that the Stat requirements of a Profile are determined by the Roles it needs to fill. However, a Profile may have other requirements in terms of maximum SR or crewing or frame types in order to set realistic constraints on the design process.

3. A "Ship Class" is a specific class of ship since as an Excelsior, a Renaissance, or a Miranda. For purposes of Tactical Ops, refits are generally considered to be distinct classes.

Ships classes under a profile will fall into two categories:
a. Meets Requirements:
b. Under Phase Out:

Ship classes that "Meet Requirements" fill all the existing stat requirements of the Role and any additional requirements of are the current most-modern design for the role and should be built whenever new construction is required for that profile. Ships under Phase Out are being gradually phased out of the Profile in favor of new designs (once available).

Flow Down of Changes to Fleet Needs

Changes may be driven by a change to Role or a Change to Profile.

1. Changes to Role are most commonly a change to Stat requirement minimum standard. Each Profile incorporating that Role is then considered, and it is determined if there is a Ship Class under that Role that Meets Requirements. If there is, there is no issue. If there is no Ship Class that Meets Requirements one of two things must occur:

a. Role will be removed from that Profile (rare)
b. Profile must be updated to allow for a new ship design or refit that will be able to meet minimum standards. In this case, current Ship Classes will be moved to "Under Phase Out" and a new design or refit project should be initiated to create a "Meets Requirement" ship class.

2. Changes to Profiles may be driven by new technologies and construction techniques that render existing ships inefficient. In this case the Profile may be adjusted directly to change requirements such as Frame, maximum SR, or Crewing.

The following Roles are what Starfleet believes are its responsibility:

Five-Year Mission - Execute five-year exploratory missions at long range with no support. Seek out severe anomalies, conduct high-level diplomacy, and discover and combat future threats.
Requirements: Explorer, All Stats 7+

Emergency Response (mandatory)
- Distress calls of all sorts.
Requirements: S2, D2

Primary Border Response - Flagships that patrol and respond to important events in border zones, with the capability to respond to Events in neighboring Home Sectors via Mutual Support.
Requirements: Explorer or Cruiser, D6+, all other Stats 5+ (note, D may be enhanced by Doctrines to meet requirements)

Primary Sector Response - Flagships that patrol and respond to important events in established sectors, but are not expected to provide Mutual Support.
Requirements: Explorer or Cruiser, C4+, S3+, L3+, H3+, P4+, D5+ (note D may be enhanced by Doctrines to meet requirements)

Garrison Response (Science, Diplomatic, Combat) - Non-emergency exploration, diplomacy, patrol, and event response, broken further into expected duties.
Requirements: Cruiser or Frigate, C2+, S4+, L2+, H2+, P4+, D3+

Support Response - Support another responder.
Requirements: D2+

Survey - Regular mapping missions.
Requirements: S3+

Interception - Detect, intercept, and confront or tail potential unknowns, whether in peacetime or as part of a fleet
Requirements: C3+, S2+, H+L of 6+, D3+

Fleet Scout - Execute the scouting phase in battle.
Requirements: Frigate, S4+

Skirmish Line (and Minesweeping) - Achieve favorable positioning in the skirmish phase in battle. Skirmishers also detect mines for the fleet.
Requirements: Frigate, D4+

Vanguard Frigate - Fill out numbers in the Vanguard and Heavy Metal phases in battle, and deal and take damage in those phases. Enable frigate-specific maneuvers in those phases.
Requirements: Frigate, C4+, L+H = 4+

Vanguard Line
- Deal and take damage in the Vanguard and Heavy Metal phases in battle.
Requirements: Explorer or Cruiser, C5+, H+L = 8+

Battle Artillery - Deal the most damage in the Heavy Metal phase in battle, while soaking hits with shields and avoiding hull damage that reduces capability.
Requirements: Explorer or Cruiser, C6+, H+L=10+

The Following Profiles are Current Designated

Heavy Explorer
Roles: Five-Year Mission, Emergency Response, Primary Border Response, Battle Artillery, Primary Sector Response, Survey, Interception
Requirements: No Size Limit, Explorer Frame, Medium+ Operations Subframe
Meets Requirements: Ambassador, veteran Excelsior-A
Under Phase-Out: non-veteran Excelsior-A, Excelsior

Light Explorer
Roles: Primary Border Response, Primary Sector Response, Emergency Response, Heavy Artillery, Survey, Interception
Requirements: Maximum 2.6mt, Explorer Frame, Medium+ Operations Subframe, C
Meets Requirements: Excelsior-A
Under Phase-Out: Excelsior

General Cruiser
Roles: Garrison Response (all), Emergency Response, Interception, Vanguard Line, Primary Sector Response, Support Response, Survey
Requirements: 1mt to 1.5mt, Cruiser Frame
Meets Requirements: Renaissance
Under Phase-Out: Constitution-B

Support Cruiser
Roles: Garrison Response (all), Support Response, Emergency Response, Interception, Survey
Requirements: Maximum 1mt, Cruiser Frame,
Meets Requirements: Renaissance, Constellation-A, Constitution-B
Under Phase-Out: None

Generalist Frigate
Primary Roles: Garrison Response (all), Support Response, Emergency Response, Skirmish Line, Interception, Survey, Vanguard Escort, Fleet Scout
Requirements: Frigate Frame, 80 SR or less
Meets Requirements: None (proposed Centaur-B refit and new Generalist Frigate Project)
Under Phase-Out: : Centaur-A, Miranda-A

Science and Courier Frigate
Roles: General Response (Science, Diplomatic), Support Response, Emergency Response, Survey, Fleet Scout
Requirements: Frigate Frame, Small Tactical Subframe, Medium+ Operations Subframe, Science Lab, LR+Nav Sensors, Max C2, 100 SR or less
Meets Requirements: Kepler
Under Phase-Out: Oberth

Combat Frigate
Roles: Support Response, Emergency Response, Vanguard Escort, Garrison Response (all), Skirmish Line, Survey, Interception
Requirements: Frigate Frame, Medium+ Tactical Subframe, 60 SR or less
Meets Requirements: None
Under Phase-Out: Miranda-A

During the Tactical turn, the options should be as follows, with a suggestion that generally only one role and one profile should be changed each turn (the exception being shifting a ship from one profile to another and modifying both sets of requirements to make it work):
Add a new Role.
Modify an existing Role.
Define a new Profile.
Modify an existing Profile.

Ships that lack roles may be retired at the discretion of Starfleet Command (likely itself a vote)
 
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I disagree that primary frontier response and primary sector response need to be different roles. Also, I question the point of including the emergency response role if:

A. You're not to include any stat minimums for emergency response.
B. Emergency response is going on every ship automatically.
No Role has stats attached. I could conceive of a system where Roles had stat requirements, but it isn't the system I proposed.

The reason every ship has emergency response automatically is because we have been told by Word of God that every Starfleet ship is obligated to respond to things like distress calls. It is not something I can remove from any ship. Therefore it is impossible for us to propose a ship that is incapable of responding in emergency situations (say, S0 D1 or similar). It's possible to create such a ship, but unless the laws that established Starfleet change we would never have a ship Profile that allows it.

As for Primary Frontier vs Primary Sector Response, that's a distinction that acknowledges we will likely use Ambassadors as Border Zone flagship but not so much in interior sectors. This segues into your question on primary and secondary roles; primary Roles are Roles we want filled by that Profile where possible. Secondary Roles are Roles that the ships in the Profile has the capability to fill but where we would rather it did the primary thing instead. That is to say, secondary Roles are where the ship does fill the requirements, not where it doesn't but we use it anyway. Whether that's "an Excelsior is good enough but we would rather have an Ambassador" or "an Excelsior is overkill but we want that anomaly mapped and that BR gathered more than we care about optimizing missions".

Question we should ask ourselves:

If the Constellation-A and Consitiution-B are adequately filling the role of support cruiser, why does no one want to be building any more of them? Why am I not getting told, "Briefvoice, you really need to put more support cruisers in your build plan"?

If no one wants them because General Cruisers are always better, why do we have a Support Cruiser profile? If Support Cruisers are sometimes better, what about them needs to change so that they are desirable to build?

Should support cruisers have a Crew/SR requirement?
Point of fact, we have in some cases built Constellation-As over Rennies. Since that's because of the SR advantage, I have no issue with installing an SR requirement. I'm also going to go along with the earlier suggestion by @Simon_Jester to fit the Connie-B into the General Cruiser profile, by adding a "Deprecated" category. This will also let us list the Centaur-A or even the Oberth until their replacements.

How does this justify both a Centaur-B refit and a new generalist frigate project?

Isn't a P4 excessive for the roles you have outlined? The only role where Presence is a necessity is garrison response?

If a Generalist frigate is the only profile capable of filling the Skirmish line role, shouldn't it have a minimum Combat?
Much like we justified the Connie-B refit even though we had the Rennie coming. An excellent skirmisher is a gaping hole in our current capabilities and a refit project fills it the fastest.

As for the stats, both P and C, my personal opinions stand as written. If anything I'd include an L requirement before a C requirement.

Do we really not want to improve the combat frigate requirements? Because right now the Miranda-A is completely falling behind all our peer powers
I agree that it's an open question. We could potentially define a new statline and deprecate the Miri-A while proposing a "Future Combat Frigate or Miranda-B Refit Project". However, that would lock us into such a project. Several SDB-focused individuals including myself don't think the Miri-A is obsolete and in fact any improvements to it would be marginal. It would be especially difficult to keep the SR cost in the 40s and the crew to 1/2/1.

So it's one of those things that'll have to be argued for. Neither would it be necessary to redefine the Profile now; we could do so next year unless you want to buy the project this Snakepit.


Anyway, I'm glad for the critique, and will be making adjustments, although that will have to wait until I get to a computer or until I have a decent break to do the edit.
 
So I'm doing an altered version of SWB's plan.

[X] Plan Roles, Profile, and Ship Classes

Definitions

1. A "Role" is a mission type that Starfleet believes its ships must undertake. A Role should be filled by a ship Profile; unfilled Roles are indications of a lack of current or future capability. Roles become unfilled in one of two ways:
a. A new role appears that was not previously considered (rare)
b. As technology increases, the minimum satisfactory stat requirements for a role increase, and existing ship designs no longer fill the requirement when compared to the dangers of the galaxy and/or the ships of our peer powers (most common)

2. A "Profile" is a description of a ship which is meant to form one or more roles. Note that the Stat requirements of a Profile are determined by the Roles it needs to fill. However, a Profile may have other requirements in terms of maximum SR or crewing or frame types in order to set realistic constraints on the design process.

3. A "Ship Class" is a specific class of ship since as an Excelsior, a Renaissance, or a Miranda. For purposes of Tactical Ops, refits are generally considered to be distinct classes.

Ships classes under a profile will fall into two categories:
a. Meets Requirements:
b. Under Phase Out:

Ship classes that "Meet Requirements" fill all the existing stat requirements of the Role and any additional requirements of are the current most-modern design for the role and should be built whenever new construction is required for that profile. Ships under Phase Out are being gradually phased out of the Profile in favor of new designs (once available).

Flow Down of Changes to Fleet Needs

Changes may be driven by a change to Role or a Change to Profile.

1. Changes to Role are most commonly a change to Stat requirement minimum standard. Each Profile incorporating that Role is then considered, and it is determined if there is a Ship Class under that Role that Meets Requirements. If there is, there is no issue. If there is no Ship Class that Meets Requirements one of two things must occur:

a. Role will be removed from that Profile (rare)
b. Profile must be updated to allow for a new ship design or refit that will be able to meet minimum standards. In this case, current Ship Classes will be moved to "Under Phase Out" and a new design or refit project should be initiated to create a "Meets Requirement" ship class.

2. Changes to Profiles may be driven by new technologies and construction techniques that render existing ships inefficient. In this case the Profile may be adjusted directly to change requirements such as Frame, maximum SR, or Crewing.

The following Roles are what Starfleet believes are its responsibility:


Five-Year Mission - Execute five-year exploratory missions at long range with no support. Seek out severe anomalies, conduct high-level diplomacy, and discover and combat future threats.

Requirements: Explorer, All Stats 7+


Emergency Response (mandatory) - Distress calls of all sorts.

Requirements: S2, D2


Primary Border Response - Flagships that patrol and respond to important events in border zones, with the capability to respond to Events in neighboring Home Sectors via Mutual Support.

Requirements: Explorer or Cruiser, D6+, all other Stats 5+ (note, D may be enhanced by Doctrines to meet requirements)


Primary Sector Response - Flagships that patrol and respond to important events in established sectors, but are not expected to provide Mutual Support.

Requirements: Explorer or Cruiser, C4+, S3+, L3+, H3+, P4+, D5+ (note D may be enhanced by Doctrines to meet requirements)


Garrison Response (Science, Diplomatic, Combat) - Non-emergency exploration, diplomacy, patrol, and event response, broken further into expected duties.

Requirements: Cruiser or Frigate, C2+, S4+, L2+, H2+, P4+, D3+


Support Response - Support another responder.

Requirements: D2+


Survey - Regular mapping missions.

Requirements: S3+


Interception - Detect, intercept, and confront or tail potential unknowns, whether in peacetime or as part of a fleet

Requirements: C3+, S2+, H+L of 6+, D3+


Fleet Scout - Execute the scouting phase in battle.

Requirements: Frigate, S4+


Skirmish Line (and Minesweeping) - Achieve favorable positioning in the skirmish phase in battle. Skirmishers also detect mines for the fleet.

Requirements: Frigate, D4+


Vanguard Frigate - Fill out numbers in the Vanguard and Heavy Metal phases in battle, and deal and take damage in those phases. Enable frigate-specific maneuvers in those phases.

Requirements: Frigate, C4+, L+H = 4+


Vanguard Line - Deal and take damage in the Vanguard and Heavy Metal phases in battle.

Requirements: Explorer or Cruiser, C5+, H+L = 8+


Battle Artillery - Deal the most damage in the Heavy Metal phase in battle, while soaking hits with shields and avoiding hull damage that reduces capability.

Requirements: Explorer or Cruiser, C6+, H+L=10+


The Following Profiles are Current Designated
Heavy Explorer
Roles: Five-Year Mission, Emergency Response, Primary Border Response, Battle Artillery, Primary Sector Response, Survey, Interception
Requirements: No Size Limit, Explorer Frame, Medium+ Operations Subframe
Meets Requirements: Ambassador, veteran Excelsior-A

Under Phase-Out: non-veteran Excelsior-A, Excelsior


Light Explorer
Roles: Primary Border Response, Primary Sector Response, Emergency Response, Heavy Artillery, Survey, Interception
Requirements: Maximum 2.6mt, Explorer Frame, Medium+ Operations Subframe, C
Meets Requirements: Excelsior-A

Under Phase-Out: Excelsior


General Cruiser
Roles: Garrison Response (all), Emergency Response, Interception, Vanguard Line, Primary Sector Response, Support Response, Survey
Requirements: 1mt to 1.5mt, Cruiser Frame
Meets Requirements: Renaissance

Under Phase-Out: Constitution-B

Support Cruiser
Roles: Garrison Response (all), Support Response, Emergency Response, Interception, Survey
Requirements: Maximum 1mt, Cruiser Frame,
Meets Requirements: Renaissance, Constellation-A, Constitution-B

Under Phase-Out: None

Generalist Frigate
Primary Roles: Garrison Response (all), Support Response, Emergency Response, Skirmish Line, Interception, Survey, Vanguard Escort, Fleet Scout
Requirements: Frigate Frame, 80 SR or less

Meets Requirements: None (proposed Centaur-B refit and new Generalist Frigate Project)

Under Phase-Out: : Centaur-A, Miranda-A

Science and Courier Frigate
Roles: General Response (Science, Diplomatic), Support Response, Emergency Response, Survey, Fleet Scout
Requirements: Frigate Frame, Small Tactical Subframe, Medium+ Operations Subframe, Science Lab, LR+Nav Sensors, Max C2, 100 SR or less
Meets Requirements: Kepler

Under Phase-Out: Oberth

Combat Frigate
Roles: Support Response, Emergency Response, Vanguard Escort, Garrison Response (all), Skirmish Line, Survey, Interception
Requirements: Frigate Frame, Medium+ Tactical Subframe, 60 SR or less
Meets Requirements: None

Under Phase-Out: Miranda-A

During the Tactical turn, the options should be as follows, with a suggestion that generally only one role and one profile should be changed each turn (the exception being shifting a ship from one profile to another and modifying both sets of requirements to make it work):
Add a new Role.
Modify an existing Role.
Define a new Profile.
Modify an existing Profile.

Ships that lack roles may be retired at the discretion of Starfleet Command (likely itself a vote)


I like this, but let me make a tiny suggestion to the roles

Vanguard frigate rubs me the wrong way, can be confusing as we could end up with cruiser+ hulls in this slot (older ships) so, why not call it Vanguard Point or Light? is a tinny nitpick, I'll admit but, it would give it a more neutral naming scheme (hell, in the profiles you also have it as Vanguard Escort and that sounds like a better name that Vanguard Frigate)
 
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