Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
Bullshit.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
Still would be useful, doctrinally speaking, to be able to distinguish between cruisers that we trust to be on the frontlines without issue, and cruisers that we're a bit more leery about doing so; So de facto it is a profile that we have right now. We can always phase it out later if we don't want to build any new ones.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
I really hope we do get to keep 45 Gabriel. It will be a nice spot to bottle up the Cardassian and Pact forces when they try to retake it when and if Hostilities ever break out. We will need to massively increase the defenses at 45 Gabriel though. A full sized Starbase, Minefields, Weapons Platforms, A full time garrison task force of at least 22C to defend it. if we do that the Cardassian and Pact forces would have to dedicate signifincant forces to taking the system and we can bleed their forces dry.
Do we know how many Jalduins the Cardasians have left to upgrade and how long this is likely to take. I think after the 45 Gabriel battle they will want as many as possible available for any future adventures in the GBZ. I doubt that they will risk a general war untl the refit is complete and they have replaced their losses in the 45 Gabriel battle.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Were the doubled-up events (like the ones for the Endurance) really done by the same ship in different sectors? Cool. Wacky.
Hm.
Nash zh'Rhashaan appears to be taking a brief break from her days kicking back on the lovely beaches of the Risan equivalent of Tierra del Fuego, with her phenomenally cold-tolerant ??? by her side. Also, a variety of adorable Risan penguins.
[fume fume fume]
[sputter sputter sputter]
"RUDE!"
@sebsmith , save us!
I'd rather we acknowledge that yes, sometimes our combat frigate MIGHT have to skirmish. The Miranda-A may not be very good at doing so, but that's just one more reason we need to replace the Miranda-A with a superior frigate and/or a refitted version of same.
Besides, it'll be cheaper than building a whole new frigate.
But we'll want to keep these ships in service. They're fast, they win the great majority of event checks they deal with, and in many cases they are perfectly suited to answering questions like "okay, who's going to help hold down this sector while the good ships are off doing something else?" Even if we hit combat cap, we'll want to mothball those ships for later use in emergencies, not scrap them.
The support cruiser profile is basically a catchall for this category of ships. It's so that Starfleet Tactical can say "support cruisers" in its doctrine publications, and people will know what they mean. Instead of just saying "Constellations," or "older ships," or some other imprecise term that doesn't fully capture the point of the exercise. We're never going to say "you know, we don't have enough support cruisers, let's custom-design a new one!" We're going to say "you know, this ship class just isn't up to modern standards anymore, we're relegating them to support cruiser duty."
The thing is, that role is already filled by the "General Cruiser" and "Light Explorer" profiles. Sure, we might be able to make ships in those roles a little bit cheaper or sleeker by sacrificing Science/Presence/Defense... but why would we want to? You're basically talking about a pocket battleship here, and pocket battleships really don't make strategic sense unless you're operating under very perverse incentives, the way the pre-WWII German navy was.
There are very few powers in Federation space that would want to build a pocket battleship purely intended for fighting. The member world fleets aren't just extra lumps of combat power we keep around for emergencies, they're self-contained naval services in their own right that just happen to have a smaller budget and bigger friends than we do.
If this were UESPA Quest or Caitian Navy Quest, would you vote to approve "build pocket battleships?" Probably not. Even if they were more effective cost-for-cost compared to other more generalist designs like the Renaissance and Excelsior-A, they'd be a burden to your fleet during the 90-95% of the time when your ships aren't heading for a pitched battle. And they wouldn't be that much more effective in battle than their weight in Rennies or Excelsior-As.
About the only fleets I can see being interested in such a ship are the more militarized ones like the Amarki- who already design their own powerful fighting ships that are to their own satisfaction. Maybe the Indorians or the Tauni- but the Indorians are pretty happy with the Renaissance-class. It's a fairly tough ship, and building five Rennies is probably a better solution than building three or four dedicated pocket battleships.
"So you wish to create a powerful forward base, which cannot be resupplied while threatened by the enemy except by crossing perilous terrain. This you propose to do, in hopes that the enemy will be compelled to fight a fierce battle for possession of it, and thus whittle down their forces."
"You know, I've been having a very interesting time reading the accounts of Earth history these past few years. You're a proud species with some fascinating habits- what was the phrase for some of them, follies of grandeur, something like that. Very admirable. A race that never overreaches is a race that lacks the spark of wild inspiration, and thus never truly reaches its full potential. But I see that Earthlings possess this spark, and show it in recurring patterns. For example, see how this plan seems to echo Dien Bien Phu."
"You will never be done cleaning up after the wreckage they leave behind with their left hands, just as you will never be done profiting from the marvels of art and science they give you with their right hands. There is no progress without change, and there is no change without consequences. Trust me in this."
"Ask Councillor Rogers how he got drummed out of the admiral's chair some time. He was thinking the same thing. What could possibly go wrong, he thought."
Hm.
Nash zh'Rhashaan appears to be taking a brief break from her days kicking back on the lovely beaches of the Risan equivalent of Tierra del Fuego, with her phenomenally cold-tolerant ??? by her side. Also, a variety of adorable Risan penguins.
Enterprise:Iron Wolf said:
[fume fume fume]
[sputter sputter sputter]
"RUDE!"
You know, Awa must now be one of the two or three seniormost officers aboard Yukikaze, and we still don't know what he does!
@sebsmith , save us!
There are a lot of conceivable situations where having Mirandas do skirmishing is better than having literally no skirmishers, especially if Oneiros keeps tinkering with the combat engine (very likely IMO), and especially if he does so in such a way as to avoid this perverse incentive that currently exists to keep Mirandas out of it.
I'd rather we acknowledge that yes, sometimes our combat frigate MIGHT have to skirmish. The Miranda-A may not be very good at doing so, but that's just one more reason we need to replace the Miranda-A with a superior frigate and/or a refitted version of same.
If it turns the remaining Mirandas into ships that can participate in fleet battles without having our SDB types scream in terror about how bad they are at skirmishing, I don't care how expensive it is.
Besides, it'll be cheaper than building a whole new frigate.
We'll always have 'marginal' cruiser classes whose stats make it undesirable to keep them in battle. Right now that's the Constellations, in ten years it'll be the Constitution-Bs. And thirty or forty years from now as we enter the TNG era it'll include the Renaissances, which even with refits won't be able to keep up with the heavy cruiser/light explorer ships we'll be designing between then and now. Heck, at some future date if we're forced to reclassify the Excelsiors as cruisers (essentially what happened to the Connies), they'll be in that category too- eventually.
But we'll want to keep these ships in service. They're fast, they win the great majority of event checks they deal with, and in many cases they are perfectly suited to answering questions like "okay, who's going to help hold down this sector while the good ships are off doing something else?" Even if we hit combat cap, we'll want to mothball those ships for later use in emergencies, not scrap them.
The support cruiser profile is basically a catchall for this category of ships. It's so that Starfleet Tactical can say "support cruisers" in its doctrine publications, and people will know what they mean. Instead of just saying "Constellations," or "older ships," or some other imprecise term that doesn't fully capture the point of the exercise. We're never going to say "you know, we don't have enough support cruisers, let's custom-design a new one!" We're going to say "you know, this ship class just isn't up to modern standards anymore, we're relegating them to support cruiser duty."
You know those aren't mutually exclusive, right? Eh, you do, I'm being silly.
The thing is, that role is already filled by the "General Cruiser" and "Light Explorer" profiles. Sure, we might be able to make ships in those roles a little bit cheaper or sleeker by sacrificing Science/Presence/Defense... but why would we want to? You're basically talking about a pocket battleship here, and pocket battleships really don't make strategic sense unless you're operating under very perverse incentives, the way the pre-WWII German navy was.
There are very few powers in Federation space that would want to build a pocket battleship purely intended for fighting. The member world fleets aren't just extra lumps of combat power we keep around for emergencies, they're self-contained naval services in their own right that just happen to have a smaller budget and bigger friends than we do.
If this were UESPA Quest or Caitian Navy Quest, would you vote to approve "build pocket battleships?" Probably not. Even if they were more effective cost-for-cost compared to other more generalist designs like the Renaissance and Excelsior-A, they'd be a burden to your fleet during the 90-95% of the time when your ships aren't heading for a pitched battle. And they wouldn't be that much more effective in battle than their weight in Rennies or Excelsior-As.
About the only fleets I can see being interested in such a ship are the more militarized ones like the Amarki- who already design their own powerful fighting ships that are to their own satisfaction. Maybe the Indorians or the Tauni- but the Indorians are pretty happy with the Renaissance-class. It's a fairly tough ship, and building five Rennies is probably a better solution than building three or four dedicated pocket battleships.
Halkh:
"So you wish to create a powerful forward base, which cannot be resupplied while threatened by the enemy except by crossing perilous terrain. This you propose to do, in hopes that the enemy will be compelled to fight a fierce battle for possession of it, and thus whittle down their forces."
"You know, I've been having a very interesting time reading the accounts of Earth history these past few years. You're a proud species with some fascinating habits- what was the phrase for some of them, follies of grandeur, something like that. Very admirable. A race that never overreaches is a race that lacks the spark of wild inspiration, and thus never truly reaches its full potential. But I see that Earthlings possess this spark, and show it in recurring patterns. For example, see how this plan seems to echo Dien Bien Phu."
Halkh:
"You will never be done cleaning up after the wreckage they leave behind with their left hands, just as you will never be done profiting from the marvels of art and science they give you with their right hands. There is no progress without change, and there is no change without consequences. Trust me in this."
Leslie:
"Ask Councillor Rogers how he got drummed out of the admiral's chair some time. He was thinking the same thing. What could possibly go wrong, he thought."
Last edited:
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Sergey Rozhenko? That's Worf's foster father! Hopefully, he won't need to do so this time around...
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Sergey has been serving aboard the Endurance since 2311; he appeared in my omake sequences Matryoshka and Devas and Asuras.
The way I figure it, we're pretty hard up for canon characters who served in Starfleet during this period, and Sergey is one of the more memorable ones.
- Location
- California
That's not really fair, Rogers' design had shit science as well. We'd only be sacrificing presence, and wouldn't be gaining militarization per any of the formulas.
2318 Family Portrait - Leila Hann
- Location
- Patriarchova
Also, forgot.
- Location
- Germany
Orion and Caldonian are new?
Looking good with the cloak.
Looking good with the cloak.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I would actually like a heavy cruiser for fleet battles ... but because of the price I don't see any reason for it have shit presence. Anything that pricey NEEDS to be useful for response work, but it can afford to be in the 5 range.
Essentially what I want is a starfleet Riala-A.
Essentially what I want is a starfleet Riala-A.
- Location
- Infraspace
"The hands of
And also voting:
[X][ROLES] Plan fill Roles with ship Profiles
Jenny
anonymous user
- Location
- maryland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Actually not necessarily. For one, the warp core doesn't actually contribute to D directly, and for another ... Miranda nacelles are old and a power-hog; if you can refit them with newer, less power-hungry nacelles, you'd get a faster design and have some free power to spare. It'd be a moderately expensive refit, but it'd make them something you could not feel utterly terrible about skirmishing with.
Last edited:
Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
Wait. are we somehow successfully responding to 28 events at once?
Also, forgot.
I can't help it, every time those lines above the Gaeni look like stink lines to me. Like he's implied to have been rolling in manure or something!
Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
It is the stench of SCIENCE!
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The question is, are they retired or "retired". Nash the Spy's companion still had valid system override codes, after all. And I'm almost certain said companion was Penelya Miran, which means she never had them legitimately.
I would ABSOLUTELY expect that a head of SFI who was removed as a sacrifice to politics would be allowed to be unofficially still in the service on a lower level if they wanted. Smart money says that Nash and Penelya are running an unofficial counterintel branch on Risa. The Risan's chillness is a liability here, and Linderly has access to two unofficial agents of proven skill and loyalty.
I would ABSOLUTELY expect that a head of SFI who was removed as a sacrifice to politics would be allowed to be unofficially still in the service on a lower level if they wanted. Smart money says that Nash and Penelya are running an unofficial counterintel branch on Risa. The Risan's chillness is a liability here, and Linderly has access to two unofficial agents of proven skill and loyalty.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Giggles
This is excellent analysis. In fact, I think this is worth threadmarking (at least for the duration of the vote).
I think it is worth examining the other side of the question our shark-in-chief is asking us: how would we like the combat system to change?
Not knowing how the combat system works currently, I have no idea how to answer this.
fasquardon
Really? I'm fairly sure that was suppose to be Linderley. It was this line:
that got me thinking that since his retirement vote was a dead tie. It's supported by this:
since as an Admiral Linderley wouldn't have had a chance to practice his fieldcraft in a while.
I can also say with near certainty that it can't be Miran because the unknown person is male:
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Good catch.
I didn't imagine Linderly as the direct fieldwork type. I've always seen him as that guy who sits behind a desk doing ALL THE ANALYSIS. And with the number of Penelya on Risa bits, my mind jumped to her being Nash's ally.
Oddly enough I think this sort of thing is exactly up Linderley's line of work. This whole adventure was a spy-on-spy fight with our spies trying to counter the enemy's spy. I'd bet you that a young Linderley spent most his days hunting down Klingon spies and saboteurs across the region of space now known as the KBZ.