[X][FORAGERS]
-[X] Requisition 3 more apiata foragers to serve as spotters for task forces 1, 3, and 5 (cost 25 pp)
[X][ENGINEERS]
-[X] Keep the Starfleet Engineering team supporting the fleet (lose one and a half year's worth of income, lose another 20 pp; keep Engineering team's support during the offensive)
 
Looking passed the anger and confusion they really did build a plan to bait Nash didn't they.
Yeah... it's what makes me think they had the ability before the Republic. There's a high probability we would have been really fucked if she launched that offensive e: and they had that ability.

edit: on the other hand, strong probability this is part of the preparations they got by us waiting a month.
 
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If this is the result of waiting a month for them to torture information out of their captives, I vote that we raise hell about the politics and the timing once this is over.

I'll note that, if this is the result of an interrogation, they basically had us fucked coming and going - either we make everyone angry by going on time, or they get this info and use it to wreck us.

Why don't we get to pull this shit on other people? The Federation is coming across as an incompetent barbarian as far as fighting goes; literally the only way we win wars is by bringing the biggest fleet.
 
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It's just so bizarre that they can so effectively and completely bypass the most advanced sensor suite in the galaxy and we don't have redundancies for it beyond using older ships. And that it's something that only works on us-this suggests to me that it's definitely something we can patch out in a couple of months if only by brute force sensor overhauls to include redundant sensor systems.
 
Maybe this is an expensive modification? It would make sense to give it a trial run on a smaller craft, like a shuttle with a team of commandos who laid charges on the Republic's hull, before going to the expensive of coating entire starships.

That makes even less sense; a smaller ship would be ultimately screwed if it was somewhat spotted, or the spoof failed. A warship could still fight its way out in worst-case scenario; a shuttle would not. Commandos present higher chance of capture. Both failure scenarios however, present the question of "now how did you folks get here...", which would kill the plan in its crib.

Now, if you're asking me for my unsolicited professional security advisor opinion....


I don't think this is a Nash bait. In fact, it's a little bit Nash conceit to think this is about her. The Konen commander is fucking with us (i.e Sulu), directly.

Think about it. Starfleet is huge about its democracy, it's separation of powers. Sulu is one of the guys that stopped the Cartwright coup. He, more than anyone else in charge would be liable to listen to N'Gir, or even reconsider by himself the option of launching a military action at a very politically sensitive timeframe.

If we're going to run with "Trek!Thrawn" idea, the Konen commander knows this. Perhaps he studied Sulu's history; or perhaps just general human history. But he knew that if he yoinked the crew of Republic at precisely that moment, he would have very, very good odds of getting away with them. And if he didn't...well, he just baited Nash, the boogeyman of Cardassia into open slugfest. I'd bet real money again that if we hit Enio right then and there, the Konen fleet would be away, laughing at us, while Cardassian commander goes "curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

Since Konen are telepaths and don't give a shit about human treatment, it's trivial to go through the crew looking for potential weakpoints, likely melting their brains into goo in the process (which also gives the benefit of Starfleet not knowing what they divulged before they expired).

In fact, this is exact sort of thing I'd do.

I should totally write a Konen omake now.

In fact, I bet Konen!Thrawn doesn't even know who Nash is.
 
Blimey, if that's the sort of thing they can get out of a month's preparation, I don't wanna know how hard they'd have roflstomped us if we had waited two months, or worse, dug in.
IDK... if they were baiting Nash with the Republic, it makes more sense that they already had this ability in hand. The chain of events makes more logical sense 'in-universe' for that to be the case. However, from a meta perspective, it also makes sense that the QM would have had a boon in their back pocket to reward the konen for us delaying. Assuming it wasn't always a 'trap' option.
 
[X][FORAGERS]
-[X] Requisition 3 more apiata foragers to serve as spotters for task forces 1, 3, and 5 (cost 25 pp)
[X][ENGINEERS]
-[X] Keep the Starfleet Engineering team supporting the fleet (lose one and a half year's worth of income, lose another 20 pp; keep Engineering team's support during the offensive)
 
Season 1.20: The Alternative Factor
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Alternative_Factor_(episode)
Planet of Hats

Summary: The entire galaxy (maybe the universe) 'blinks' like the power flickering on a monitor. A man called Lazarus apepars, a time traveler from the past pursuing the monster who destroyed his civilization. The 'monster' is another version of Lazarus from an anti-matter universe who wants to kill him and in the process maybe annihilate the entire universe. Kirk traps them both in a corridor between universes to fight for eternity.

TBG Discussion: One of the least memorable TOS episodes is curiously one of the most memorable in-universe. As the episode makes clear, the entire galaxy felt the 'blinks'. Every species the Federation meets is going to have this in their historical records as one of the great mysteries. Kind of neat, actually.
Leslie:

"Yeah. That was a weird day. I mean, normally, one of the very few days I ever sat in The Chair, plus pulling the trigger on the whole 'fire the phasers, save maybe the universe' thing would be memorable. But... frankly, I tend to forget about it all too for some reason."

[shrugs]

Season 1.21: Tomorrow is Yesterday
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Tomorrow_is_Yesterday_(episode)
Planet of Hats

Summary: The Enterprise is thrown back in time to 1969 and has to find a way home without altering the past. Spock invents a method of time travel you can do with any ship with a warp drive. Not event a good warp drive... they do it at warp factor 3.

TBG Discussion: Just FYI, but Admiral Sulu personally knows how to time travel. The Bureau of Temporal Affairs probably has nightmares about that.
Leslie:

"Oh, slingshotting forward is easy. Any idiot can do it if their ship isn't a rattling overworked hunk of junk. It's backward that's hard."

Season 1.22: The Return of the Archons
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Return_of_the_Archons_(episode)
Planet of Hats

Summary: The Enterprise beams down to a planet of human-like aliens who live in a static, mindlessly content society. The society is being run by a computer named Landru. 100 years ago Landru destroyed the starship Archon and forcefully absorbed many of the crew into its society. (The Enteprrise had been there to look for the Archon in the first place.) Kirk eventually talks the computer into destroying itself.

TBG Discussion: The main difficulty is the random planet of humans who are so human they even get called 'human' and absorbed the Archon's crew. My minor retcon... Beta III is actually a lost human colony who fell under the influence of an alien computer, Landru, shortly after settlement. Landru's original charges had long since died out, but it determined it had to continue its mission with the humans when they showed up. This also solves the issue where a "planet" is basically one city.
Leslie:

"Now that was the second weirdest day of my life. Zapped a bunch of rioters, got taken over by a mind control computer, and Kirk talked it to death. Kirk was goddamn excellent at talking computers to death. Don't know why, never got the hang of it myself."

Season 1.23: A Taste of Armageddon
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/A_Taste_of_Armageddon_(episode)
Planet of Hats

Summary: The Enterprise forcefully opens up diplomatic relations (as in ignoring orders to stay away) with the planet Eminiar 7. It has been fighting a pseudo-war with the third planet in the same system (Vendikar) for 500 years. The war is run by computers, who decide who has been killed, and the casualties then report to disintegration chambers. After the Enterprise is declared 'destroyed', the crew fights to survive and Kirk threatens to destroy the entire planet. Eventually Spock disrupts the computer controlling the flow of communications and Kirk tells everyone they can make peace or go to war for real.

TBG Discussion: This is an awkward episode to integrate into a game where we're actually tracking all significant species. What happened to the Eminiar and Vendikar? Maybe they're out there, but have gone heavy isolationist and don't fly starships around? (No starships were mentioned in the episode.) Maybe the peace talks failed and they're all dead. (Depressing.) Maybe they got ceded into Klingon territory, which is a nice default answer. Interested in thread thoughts on this because it is a good episode and nice bit of lore for the universe.
Leslie:

"They were faffing around with magnetogravitic drives- good enough for interplanetary work but lousy for interstellar. If it weren't for them having about eleven zillion megawatts of planetary defense lasers and enough missile batteries to make the Klingons sob at the militarism of it all, they wouldn't have been much of a threat. That computer system gave them every reason to build more of the weapons they had until their economy collapsed, but no reason to invent new ones it wouldn't know how to model properly. As to why we haven't heard from them since? Would you want to sell those crazies the blueprints for a warp drive, cease-fire or no cease-fire?"

Season 1.24: Space Seed
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Seed_(episode)
Planet of Hats

Summary: KHAAAN!!!! A genetic superman from the Eugenics Wars is revived and tries to take over the Enterprise, but Kirk beats him in a fistfight and strands him and his followers on a planet.

TBG Discussion: Given the importance to the movies, presumably this episode happened pretty much as depicted.
Leslie:

"Sat at a dinner table with the guy, then he gassed the bridge. A few people asked us why we didn't try more of an uprising to help Kirk- most of them don't know how much of a kick there was in the anesthetic he used."

Season 1.25: This Side of Paradise
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/This_Side_of_Paradise_(episode)
Planet of Hats

Summary: The Enterprise finds a colony that has been affected by space spores from a space plant, curing their physical ailments but altering their minds. Kirk and Spock bombard the planet with anger-inducing sub-sonics to free them.

TBG Discussion: No issues, though in modern sci-fi there would probably be a, "And actually, eventually the spores germinate and you die as flowers sprout out of your brain," stinger on the spores to make them seem worse.
Leslie:

"Seventh-weirdest day of my life. And yeah, the spores don't do anything except turn you into the bio-organic equivalent of a wirehead. If you know anyone that doesn't think that seems bad enough, I feel sorry for their sense of self-actualization."
 
[X][FORAGERS]
-[X] Requisition 3 more apiata foragers to serve as spotters for task forces 1, 3, and 5 (cost 25 pp)
[X][ENGINEERS]
-[X] Keep the Starfleet Engineering team supporting the fleet (lose one and a half year's worth of income, lose another 20 pp; keep Engineering team's support during the offensive)
 
If this is the result of waiting a month for them to torture information out of their captives, I vote that we raise hell about the politics and the timing once this is over.

I'll note that, if this is the result of an interrogation, they basically had us fucked coming and going - either we make everyone angry by going on time, or they get this info and use it to wreck us.

Why don't we get to pull this shit on other people? The Federation is coming across as an incompetent barbarian as far as fighting goes; literally the only way we win wars is by bringing the biggest fleet.

I think it's pretty obvious that this is the capability they used to ambush the Republic and has nothing to do with an extra three months' time on our response.

Though I note that setting up a military situation where your enemy is fucked coming and going is the entire point of warfare.
 
I don't think this is a Nash bait. In fact, it's a little bit Nash conceit to think this is about her. The Konen commander is fucking with us (i.e Sulu), directly.
Could it be (also) a plot to get Sulu fired and replaced with someone who doesn't give an Intel bonus?

I mean, we're getting a lot of votes that require spending pp right after we spent most of our banked pp on a Snakepit turn. What happens when we go into the negatives?

It's a good thing the captains logs are making some back, plus didn't we still have the bonus that was from meeting requirements that hadn't been applied yet?
 
That an advanced species willing to join them, really need to break it up.
What region is it coming from? Need more explorers there
The entire point of the Treaty of Celos is that they won't talk to us and we cannot readily break up their relationship with the Cardies. I don't know how the Cardassians arranged that little diplomatic coup, but they seem to have already succeeded. I can't complain; the balance of power is getting kind of ludicrous if we get to keep signing on new members constantly and the Cardassians don't find some reasonably tough new clients.

I'm almost surprised that Avandar hasn't level'd up yet.
I think they just haven't applied quite enough glorious badassery for that to happen, but it can't be far away.

Meanwhile, on the set of the TBG TV show:

"Why are we doing so much stuff with Avandar anyways?"

"Kinda slipped into it. The cast works good together, the fans seem to like them a lot. There's rumblings about a spin-off if it keeps up."
The real problem is that they haven't got the Enterprise to form a nucleus for half their episodes. They had some good scripts written for the crew of the Enterprise that haven't been used yet, and they're all being given to the Avandar

Talarians, eh? A canon species, but they were alot more xenophobic than they're here in TBG. Even fought a war with the Federation.
Probably a good bet that they used to be that xenophobic.
It's not just that they're xenophobic, they're also supremacist and aggressive. If they tried to treat the ISC the way they treated the canon Federation in the mid-24th century, it's no surprise that they got beaten bloody for their effrontery.

That's impossible. Someone who has managed to hide his entire service record from the Tal Shiar cannot in any way become compromised. It would be highly illogical.
Unless he was a Lecarre all along...

Before you assume I'm joking, I should point out that this is pretty much exactly what happened to the British in the early Cold War with people like Kim Philby. :D

Honestly, we should be really reconsidering the offensive in light of this anyway, a "You're basically deaf and blind to us" advantage is one that's... Very hard to overcome.
That is the case. On the other hand, we may be able to quickly reconfigure or redesign. Most gimmicks for defeating "Starfleet sensors" or "Russian radar" or whatever would inevitably hinge on very specific features of the system in question. A countermeasure that works against the latest software update or whatever is going to be easy to work around. A countermeasure that works against an entire category of sensors as such... well, that's basically a cloaking device.

I think it's pretty obvious that this is the capability they used to ambush the Republic and has nothing to do with an extra three months' time on our response.
It's entirely plausible, on the other hand that invites the question of how they figured out a sensor-masking technique so perfectly adapted to our latest sensor hardware if they didn't have Starfleet prisoners to interrogate.
 
Hmm, that's the second nomad civilization that came from rimwards. What's up with that region?
Well, there's a 50% chance that two random nomads that have to come from 'up' or 'down' will both come from the same direction... It could be a coin toss, in effect.

Alternatively, it may be that there's some major event going on towards the rim that's driving multiple nomadic civilizations our way. Or it could be that the rim is just a major breeding ground for nomads, for some underlying reason. Say, lots of exotic physics effects creating special resources for shipbuilding but ALSO making habitable planets few and far between. In that case, any species that do develop star travel out there will find ample resources to build ships but few M-class planets to settle on. A nomadic lifestyle would be more appealing in that case, so you'd expect a constant buzzing of various nomadic space travelers "out there," with occasional groups wandering corewards.

Conversely, closer to the core you might have less exotic resources and more habitable worlds, so there's little incentive for aliens to migrate from the core to the rim. Anyone who comes to us from coreward would be specifically looking for resources.

It's almost like there's a species of imperialist insects roaming around threatening to enslave anyone who stays put.
The Ittick-ka aren't powerful enough to be doing this. When you get mass Volkerwanderung events with large numbers of nomadic tribes moving at once, it's usually because of some overwhelming, pre-eminent threat. The Ittick-ka are apparently little or no stronger than the average single-species polity, and they don't live far enough away to sweep many different species of nomads toward us.
 
That is the case. On the other hand, we may be able to quickly reconfigure or redesign. Most gimmicks for defeating "Starfleet sensors" or "Russian radar" or whatever would inevitably hinge on very specific features of the system in question. A countermeasure that works against the latest software update or whatever is going to be easy to work around. A countermeasure that works against an entire category of sensors as such... well, that's basically a cloaking device.

It's entirely plausible, on the other hand that invites the question of how they figured out a sensor-masking technique so perfectly adapted to our latest sensor hardware if they didn't have Starfleet prisoners to interrogate.

To be fair, the first reaction was "Oh shit when the fuck did they get combat cloaks?"

Like, to be completely invisible to modern warships, but older ones can see you just fine? That's either a software backdoor coded into your newest firmware, or they've gotten the specs to your entire sensor suite and have designed countermeasures to perfectly counter those. The former is easier to fix--in theory--but basically requires them not blow their advantage on an attack like this, because it can be corrected by rolling back the firmware (Unless they subverted the software years ago and no backups exist of the untainted stuff)

Admittedly, if it worked out, they would have potentially knocked us the fuck out rather than tip their hand. But generally speaking, you don't play an asset this powerful on anything but a decisive battle--which they had already baited us into, if they played this hand intercepting Nash's fleet, they could have wiped out our mobile forces--which are far more important than stationary ones. Unless correcting the problem is something we're not going to be able to do without surrendering the initiative. Very much a "Okay, you know what we did--how does this help you when you need to send your ships to drydock to fix the problem?"

The latter also basically breeds massive paranoia, because it would mean the Ashalla Pact has somehow managed to subvert someone with access to these detailed engineering schematics, and managed to secretly extract them from the heart of our power. In which case, whether they succeeded or failed at this op, they'd still damage us tremendously.
 
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Well, fuck. What do we do now, pull a BSG and backdate to older systems?

We don't know how they did this yet.

Just need to hope Linderly's on the ball today.

If it's something like "Somehow, we got your schematics for your current generation sensor suites and know every flaw that exists in them". We can't do shit to stop them.

If it's something just like "We slipped a backdoor somehow into your current firmware generation", that's a lot more managable.
 
I think we are overlooking the possibly obvious in dealing with psychicly adept opponents: they don't have a system to hide from our tech that well. They can run silent pretty decently, at some risk, but the hack isn't in the hardware. They're hacking the meat, so people don't notice dampened readings. It's PEBKAC.
 
I think we are overlooking the possibly obvious in dealing with psychicly adept opponents: they don't have a system to hide from our tech that well. They can run silent pretty decently, at some risk, but the hack isn't in the hardware. They're hacking the meat, so people don't notice dampened readings. It's PEBKAC.
Explain the Amarki being able to see them clear as day, then?
 
Explain the Amarki being able to see them clear as day, then?

They're trying to make people ignore readings that are designed to be minimal on Starfleet sensors, but still there. They've got enough records of our sensors in action that it shouldn't be hard for them to achieve this. They can't make them ignore something big and bright and flashy easily, or possibly at all. Instead they're running like actual stealth in that you still get a return, just a poor one, and bridging the gap with gentle suggestion.

Amarki using different sensors still pick them up perfectly fine.
 
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