To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

[Leila Hann]

We'll just aim for their nacelles and their weapons then.

Does the Federation have weapons that can disable electronics (i.e. EMP, ion cannons)?

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Trek ships are powered by warp plasma. EMP is only going to cause a momentary failure in their shell electronics, assuming it can even get through the shields and hull.

The late 2300's breen have some kind of "energy dampening" weapon they stole from Foundation that forces ships to power down, but that's a generation in the future and we haven't even met them yet. The borg have a shield-nullifying beam because of course they do, but good luck getting them to share it.

 

[Neptune]

Federation Council is suppressing news of possible Cardassian involvement. You may petition to have this information released, or leak it yourself during a Snakepit turn. However, the Council is also willing to overlook aggressive action around the Cardassian Frontier in deference to the lack of formal ties and ongoing Cardassian aggression.

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If Cardassian involvement is being suppressed, it still means the Orion Syndicate's involvement is known so what's happening with regards to that?

 

[AKuz]

Huh black ops. If she can pull this off, then Blue Kirk has an open invitation to Section 31 .

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Section 31, well, they may be useful for once. And Sulu is a part of them...

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Quite Frankly. Fuck Section 31. They are incompetent over hyped genocidal fuckwits who have only ever weighed the Federation down. They are a secret society little better than a murderous death cult to Hard men making Hard decisions while Hard.

If we find them we drag them out in the open an burn them in the light of an open and public fair trial.

On the other hand. This is likely not an S31 action, just a closely held Starfleet/ Starfleet Intelligence one.

Also, I support publicizing our findings about this incident. Show them how different we are from every unenlightened cloak and dagger fighting in the dark of wrong empire. Our strength is in our idealism and our willingness to be different and better. Hiding information like this can only end badly. And showing the Cardassians that we simply don't give a shit about their shenanigans will at the very least throw their entire security apparatus into a tizzy for a year trying to figure out what the hell we think we're doing.

 

[UbeOne]

So our strength is the light, not the shadow.

 

[Leila Hann]

Quite Frankly. Fuck Section 31. They are incompetent over hyped genocidal fuckwits who have only ever weighed the Federation down. They are a secret society little better than a murderous death cult to Hard men making Hard decisions while Hard.

If we find them we drag them out in the open an burn them in the light of an open and public fair trial.

On the other hand. This is likely not an S31 action, just a closely held Starfleet/ Starfleet Intelligence one.

Also, I support publicizing our findings about this incident. Show them how different we are from every unenlightened cloak and dagger fighting in the dark of wrong empire. Our strength is in our idealism and our willingness to be different and better. Hiding information like this can only end badly. And showing the Cardassians that we simply don't give a shit about their shenanigans will at the very least throw their entire security apparatus into a tizzy for a year trying to figure out what the hell we think we're doing.

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I admit that doing exactly the "wrong" thing from the Obsidian Order's perspective has its appeal, but the diplomatic consequences might be too pricey. Especially if we're trying to convince the CBZ races that we can protect them from the Cardassians.

Unless something new comes to light, I say we stick with blaming this on the Syndicate. It lets us avoid escalation until we're ready, it might trick the Cardassians into thinking we know less than we do, and it gives us an excuse to purge a monstrous pirate and slaver ring that - lets face it - shouldn't have been allowed to exist for so long to begin with.


I hope to god there's no Section 31 in this quest.

 

[Muer'ci]

Space cloak and space dagger shenanigans! Awesome!

 

[lbmaian]

"And I'm sure you'll tell me why, Ms Blue," says Nash, somehow feeling a little put out at not being Ms Blue herself.

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:lol

It takes a moment but Nash eventually places her; Captain Samyr Kanil of the USS T'Mir.

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"Now it so happens that our friends Ms Green and Mr Orange were in a similar sort of area, and happened to note that a friend who is a little, let's say scaly, was also there."

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Also more vindication that our emphasis on SIGINT is not misplaced. Obviously, HUMINT (or non-human equivalent) would've helped prevent the bombing, but SIGINT is providing us this opportunity.

Also, I support publicizing our findings about this incident. Show them how different we are from every unenlightened cloak and dagger fighting in the dark of wrong empire. Our strength is in our idealism and our willingness to be different and better. Hiding information like this can only end badly. And showing the Cardassians that we simply don't give a shit about their shenanigans will at the very least throw their entire security apparatus into a tizzy for a year trying to figure out what the hell we think we're doing.

Click to shrink...

While I agree in principle, we unfortunately do not have phaser-proof evidence. If we start pointing fingers at the Cardassians over what info we have right now, we'll look like we're trying to shift blame, or worse, appear to be warmongers.

 

[UbeOne]

Space cloak and space dagger shenanigans! Awesome!

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"Your mission, should you choose to accept it..."

 

[AKuz]

I admit that doing exactly the "wrong" thing from the Obsidian Order's perspective has its appeal, but the diplomatic consequences might be too pricey. Especially if we're trying to convince the CBZ races that we can protect them from the Cardassians.

Unless something new comes to light, I say we stick with blaming this on the Syndicate. Lets us avoid escalation until we're ready, it might trick the Cardassians into thinking we know less than we do, and it gives us an excuse to purge a monstrous pirate and slaver ring that - lets face it - shouldn't have been allowed to exist for so long in our territory to begin with.

I hope to god there's no Section 31 in this quest.

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We do both then. This is not a declaration of war. We ask the Cardassians to hand over the criminals responsible. We calmly tell them to sit down and shut up and treat with us. We offer them goods and services. We escalate nothing. If the council wants to? Then they'd better be prepared to pony up the resources, people and ships to make it work.

If we want to purge the Orions then we do it. We almost certainly would have the Orion Union on side, and everyone else from the Romulans and Klingons on down. If they are now patsies for an outside power and not predictable criminals then no one can feel safe with them around. They should have a chance to stand down or be swept aside.

While I agree in principle, we unfortunately do not have phaser-proof evidence. If we start pointing fingers at the Cardassians over what info we have right now, we'll look like we're trying to shift blame, or worse, appear to be warmongers.

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We shift no blame, we drop the scans out there, we say nothing, we put no spin on it. Just "Here is what we have. Deal with it". And we don't let it shift policy. Honestly this affects nothing. My plans would be the same either way towards the Cardassians. In the end they failed. They have spent almost certainly the most effective leading edge of their resources and they lost. Once Nash is done we put that out there too and just go "No. We will not fight. But we can defend ourselves" the Cardassians have not learned the one thing that every other neighbor has that allows us to sit stably: The Federation does not start shit. Ever. but....

So our strength is the light, not the shadow.

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Yes

If we wanted to be the shadow we'd be back on the other side of the Mirror shanking people for shinies and watching our backs with no friends or even long term allies.

Like, people seem to laboring under misapprehension that Section 31 is a deep state part of Starfleet Intelligence or something. They are not. Take all the worst parts of our fears about the NSA and the CIA and every fucker hiding in the shadows and put them in a black clad cult together. That is Section 31. Unnecessary and utterly useless holdovers that only drag us down. If they do exist in this quest we must drag them into the light and let them wither in the loss of their deniability of their convenient fictions, and self rationalizations.

We do not need their kind.

We have an organization that can do this. An organization with oversight, and it is currently proving itself at least useful. It is called Starfleet Intelligence and it is our shield. Not a cult.

 

[Kelenas]

Hm... in regards to fighting against Cardassian vessels... what's the stance of the Federation on pirates?

I mean, the captains of those vessels claim to serve some "Cardassian Union", and be official military personnel and whatnot, but since we have absolutely no contact with the Cardassian Union that could allow us to verify those claims, we can't exactly verify those claims.
Treating them as potential pirates until proven otherwise, given their behavior, would seem like a fairly logical step to me that might allow us to poke them back a bit in terms of diplomacy and whatnot.

"How can the Cardassians claim to be able to protect you, when so many of their own people seem to engage in piracy and other criminal acts?"

While I agree in principle, we unfortunately do not have phaser-proof evidence. If we start pointing fingers at the Cardassians over what info we have right now, we'll look like we're trying to shift blame, or worse, appear to be warmongers.

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Well, we could simply lay out the facts;
- an Orion Syndicate freighter carried a Cardassian lifesign and two bombs
- one bomb was transported in front of the ambassadors' shuttle
- when the ship was disabled, the second bomb was used to self-destruct the vessel
- Orion Syndicate criminals aren't the type to commit suicide to evade capture

Don't make any claims of it being an official Cardassian operation or anything like that, but let people naturally come to their own conclusions in that regard. And if the Cardassians deny it, chances are good that even more people would find that story believable.

 

[UbeOne]

Cardassians: We didn't bomb that shuttle!

Federation: We never said anything like that. We only said that a Cardassian was on that Syndicate freighter, which just so happened to have bombs.

 

[Leila Hann]

We do both then. This is not a declaration of war. We ask the Cardassians to hand over the criminals responsible. We calmly tell them to sit down and shut up and treat with us. We offer them goods and services. We escalate nothing. If the council wants to? Then they'd better be prepared to pony up the resources, people and ships to make it work.

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Assuming the Cardassian government even responds (remember, we haven't had ANY formal contact with them whatsoever yet)...

They'll say that it was a lone and exiled Cardassian thug who happened to join the Syndicate. We'd have absolutely no proof to the contrary.

And even if we DO prove the Cardassian Union was behind it, will that necessarily help us? Imagine we prove it, and then they just go "yeah? What are you gonna do about it?" If we don't go to war then, we're going to lose vaaaaast amounts of street cred in the CBZ, and possibly alienate a large segment of the Amarki population just days after they joined us. If we do go to war, with our current fleet assets, we probably lose.


EDIT: I like the idea @Kelenas had about impounding the next Cardassian ship that causes trouble and arresting its crew on piracy charges in order to force their government to reveal itself. However, if they really are trying to start a war it could backfire in a very obvious way.

 

[AKuz]

Assuming the Cardassian government even responds (remember, we haven't had ANY formal contact with them whatsoever yet)...

They'll say that it was a lone and exiled Cardassian thug who happened to join the Syndicate. We'd have absolutely no proof to the contrary.

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Hey, then we'll at least have established official contact. Point: Us

 

[Shard]

So, um, with the split to technologies, did research effectively get nerfed?

 

[Nix]

So, um, with the split to technologies, did research effectively get nerfed?

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To some extent yes, though there are also new techs so while it has become more expensive there is also more it can do now. Before we were on track to being able to research everything all the time and essentially taking research decisions out of the game.

 

[lbmaian]

Since @OneirosTheWriter gave this post a positive rating and it's been floating around in my head since then, I figured I'd elaborate on what I meant. I adopted @Ibmaian's idea of teams without specialties.

<snip>

Note that this doesn't contain the Amarki team we just voted on. This is intended more to give a feel of my suggestion then a list to replace what you have.

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I don't have any comment on the names or preferences, but I do like the overall approach. We could even have separate bonuses per preference, like Spock still being better at Xenopsychology than Communications, but that probably adds unnecessary complexity.

I also still advocate for a tech tree to ensure that we never get into a situation where we can research all categories at once.

 

[lbmaian]

Also @OneirosTheWriter, this was called out earlier and I hate to point it out in light of our difficulties with designing the Renaissance...but are the following Cruiser techs suffixed with "II" really only supposed to require 15 research each?

7 / 15 Cruiser Presence Design II (-1% to Cruisers stat weights)
7 / 15 Cruiser Defence Design II (-1% to Cruisers stat weights)
7 / 15 Cruiser Shield Design II (-1% to Cruiser stat weights)

The other Cruiser techs suffixed with "II" all require 30 research each.

 

[OneirosTheWriter]

Also @OneirosTheWriter, this was called out earlier and I hate to point it out in light of our difficulties with designing the Renaissance...but are the following Cruiser techs suffixed with "II" really only supposed to require 15 research each?

7 / 15 Cruiser Presence Design II (-1% to Cruisers stat weights)
7 / 15 Cruiser Defence Design II (-1% to Cruisers stat weights)
7 / 15 Cruiser Shield Design II (-1% to Cruiser stat weights)

The other Cruiser techs suffixed with "II" all require 30 research each.

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No, been meaning to fix that.

 

[Briefvoice]

132 pp as of now. We can afford one refit and basically everything else we want, or both refits but some severe cuts.

Wish list:
40 pp Constellation refit
50 pp Constitution refit (still controversal)
8 pp Beta Corridan mining colony
40 pp 4x diplomatic push
20 pp recruitment rush
20 pp resource request
18 pp starbase in home sector or RBZ

196 pp
We probably won't earn another 64 pp until the snake pit. My inclination is to defer the Constitution refit until next year, we are definitely going to need the Constellation refit even if just to upgrade the existing 8 ships, but the Constitution refit can potentially be done without entirely. In case of war new Constellation and Constitution refits are equally useful.

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I don't really think we need 4 diplomatic pushes (and remember, @OneirosTheWriter said last time that from now on the number would be limited).

Also, here's a point I think people are missing. You're viewing +300 Affiliate status as giving us resources but costing us nothing, but what I notice is that every time an Affiliate goes past 300 their key system gets added to our list with its own Defense requirement. Currently that Defense requirement is 0 for affiliates, but that is a political decision not a game mechanical guarantee. At any time that "0" could be raised to include some amount of required defense from Starfleet in return for the resources they are providing even without full Federation membership, and I expect it will be at some point. It seems crazy they would be putting resources into Starfleet and not expect some help back from Starfleet as tensions rise.

My diplomatic push list would be:
Indorions 143/500
Apiata 100/500

They are the ones we seem to be "competing" with the Cardassians over, so it's important that we get breathing room on them diplomatically so that one bad incident can't easily push them out of Affiliate status. Everyone else can wait a year. Frankly if we go for the Constitution refit (and I know that's an "if" for a lot of posters) then the Constellation refit can wait another year as well. Why? Because if we go for the Constitution-B then we will be building new Consitutions in our small berths, not new Constellations. The Constellation refit will only be for actually refitting our existing ships. And with out current crisis, we can't afford to take existing ships out of service for refits until we have more ships to spare. I wouldn't want to take any existing Constellations out of service for a refit until 2312 at the earliest, when our first crop of newly build light cruisers (whether they be constitutions or constellations) come into service.

So wish list:
Wish list:
50 pp Constitution refit OR 40 pp Constellation refit (both unneeded)
8 pp Beta Corridan mining colony
20 pp 2x diplomatic push
20 pp recruitment rush
20 pp resource request
18 pp starbase in home sector or RBZ

136. Meaning with with Q1 Captain's logs we can probably afford something else as well, but we can almost definitely afford the bare minimum listed above. If we got no political will at all out of Q1, I'd be willing to push back the mining colony for a year.

 

[SuperSonicSound]

I don't really think we need 4 diplomatic pushes (and remember, @OneirosTheWriter said last time that from now on the number would be limited).

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Yes that limit is four, after I and others penned a plan with 7+ pushes.

 

[Void Stalker]

132 pp as of now. We can afford one refit and basically everything else we want, or both refits but some severe cuts.

Wish list:
40 pp Constellation refit
50 pp Constitution refit (still controversal)
8 pp Beta Corridan mining colony
40 pp 4x diplomatic push
20 pp recruitment rush
20 pp resource request
18 pp starbase in home sector or RBZ

196 pp

We probably won't earn another 64 pp until the snake pit. My inclination is to defer the Constitution refit until next year, we are definitely going to need the Constellation refit even if just to upgrade the existing 8 ships, but the Constitution refit can potentially be done without entirely. In case of war new Constellation and Constitution refits are equally useful.

Click to shrink...

Actually I would do the Constitution first, I don't think we can afford to take any Constellations offline until the first wave of Centaurs come out in order to meet defense requirement, so doing the Constellation refit the following year will still have it done in time

I don't really think we need 4 diplomatic pushes (and remember, @OneirosTheWriter said last time that from now on the number would be limited).

Also, here's a point I think people are missing. You're viewing +300 Affiliate status as giving us resources but costing us nothing, but what I notice is that every time an Affiliate goes past 300 their key system gets added to our list with its own Defense requirement. Currently that Defense requirement is 0 for affiliates, but that is a political decision not a game mechanical guarantee. At any time that "0" could be raised to include some amount of required defense from Starfleet in return for the resources they are providing even without full Federation membership, and I expect it will be at some point. It seems crazy they would be putting resources into Starfleet and not expect some help back from Starfleet as tensions rise.

My diplomatic push list would be:
Indorions 143/500
Apiata 100/500

They are the ones we seem to be "competing" with the Cardassians over, so it's important that we get breathing room on them diplomatically so that one bad incident can't easily push them out of Affiliate status. Everyone else can wait a year. Frankly if we go for the Constitution refit (and I know that's an "if" for a lot of posters) then the Constellation refit can wait another year as well. Why? Because if we go for the Constitution-B then we will be building new Consitutions in our small berths, not new Constellations. The Constellation refit will only be for actually refitting our existing ships. And with out current crisis, we can't afford to take existing ships out of service for refits until we have more ships to spare. I wouldn't want to take any existing Constellations out of service for a refit until 2312 at the earliest, when our first crop of newly build light cruisers (whether they be constitutions or constellations) come into service.

So wish list:
Wish list:
50 pp Constitution refit OR 40 pp Constellation refit (both unneeded)
8 pp Beta Corridan mining colony
20 pp 2x diplomatic push
20 pp recruitment rush
20 pp resource request
18 pp starbase in home sector or RBZ

136. Meaning with with Q1 Captain's logs we can probably afford something else as well, but we can almost definitely afford the bare minimum listed above. If we got no political will at all out of Q1, I'd be willing to push back the mining colony for a year.

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We are in a cold war for affiliates so each diplo push not taken allows the Cardassians to pull even or pull ahead. They are sabotaging our relations so we need to use Federation means to improve relations which is diplo pushes. Also Constitution refit this turn, I addressed why Constellation needs to wait a turn and I think both are there, we are not likely going to retire the Constellations, and this way we can use them as rear area garrison ships to free up our main fleet to be deployed to hot areas. Also they will be handy for meeting defense requirements of new members and the Betazoids should come on this coming year or the following year.

 

[Briefvoice]

We are in a cold war for affiliates so each diplo push not taken allows the Cardassians to pull even or pull ahead. They are sabotaging our relations so we need to use Federation means to improve relations which is diplo pushes.

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Which Affiliates would you view as most critical to protect from Cardassian influence and in what order?

 

[SuperSonicSound]

We should consider starting an escort design project if people feel war with the Cardassians is imminent.

We can put together a design that will take two years (Only tier 1 fudge factors) which has C4,S3,H2,L4,R5 for 90 / 70. First ship non-prototype would be built in seven years. reliability would be 98.89%

This would slot into 1m berths.

 

[Steven Kodaly]

"Ms White, meet Mr Red. Does that satisfy your concerns?"

"Yes, yes it does."

Sulu, 'Mr Red', claps his hands together. "Splendid."

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And here we thought Sulu wouldn't be assisting intelligence efforts in his new position!

Also, I support publicizing our findings about this incident. Show them how different we are from every unenlightened cloak and dagger fighting in the dark of wrong empire.

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The problem with this course of action is that it could all too easily lock the Federation and the Union into an unnecessary all-out war. Plausible deniability is a bitch, I'm afraid.

And showing the Cardassians that we simply don't give a shit about their shenanigans will at the very least throw their entire security apparatus into a tizzy for a year trying to figure out what the hell we think we're doing.

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On the other hand, you're right; putting the Cardassians on the back foot, as it were, could prove very useful indeed.

If we want to purge the Orions then we do it. We almost certainly would have the Orion Union on side, and everyone else from the Romulans and Klingons on down. If they are now patsies for an outside power and not predictable criminals then no one can feel safe with them around.

Click to shrink...

Also a valid point; we could turn this into an interstellar diplomatic triumph if Starfleet and the Federation Council can figure out how to properly frame the matter...

We shift no blame, we drop the scans out there, we say nothing, we put no spin on it. Just "Here is what we have. Deal with it". And we don't let it shift policy.

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Actually, we should put a spin on it; see below:

Cardassians: We didn't bomb that shuttle!

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Federation Council: Of course you didn't bomb that shuttle - that would be an act of war, a very expensive proposition indeed for any government! Clearly, this was an attempt at destabilizing the region by bringing our respective peoples to blows; as such, we are both aggreived parties being attacked by pirates and other criminals. Cooperation in bringing such malcontents to heel is the most practical course of action to take, and would greatly benefit the Union, the Federation and the various other powers in the region of space between us; you are a practical people, are you not?

We would need to do some serious politicking behind closed doors with the Council membership in advance, as pursuing this course is explicitly in their bailiwick and will require serious planning on how to orchestrate all the diplomatic maneuvering, but we could force the Cardassians to either accept our offer of cooperation or publicly admit responsibility for the (foiled!) attack.

 

[OneirosTheWriter]

End of Year Report Card - 2306

Starting Resources
660 Bulk Resources
310 Special Resources
70 Political Will
67 Research Points

Starting Personnel Pool
Standard Starfleet: 20.4 Officer, 30.4 Enlisted, 9.5 Techs
Explorer Corps: 1.75 Officer, 3 Enlisted, 2.5 Techs

Spent During the Year
Expenditure
(for 2 Excelsiors, Repairs to USS Vigour, Miracht)
490 Bulk Industrial Resources
330 Special Industrial Resources
133 Political Will
81 Research Points (9 x teams activated)

Casualties
Standard: 1 Enlisted
Explorer: 1 Officer, 1 Enlisted

Career Casualties
Standard: 8 Officer, 17 Enlisted, 10 Technician
Explorer: 3 Officer, 3 Enlisted, 2 Tech

Gained During the Year

Political Rewards

+10 pp Tellarite enthusiasm
+50 pp early mission completion
3 projects commenced
new sector established
new Vice Admiral position created
Lor'Vela Shipyard at Andoria completed
Aelin research colony completed
+25pp/10rp for Amarkia joining

USS Enterprise
----

+25pp
+5rp

+25 Relations with Indoria
+25 Relations with Caitians
Gain Apiata as Affiliates

USS Courageous
----

25 br
10pp
20rp

Cardassian Relations with Apiata -25
Meet new race: Seyek

USS Sarek
----

40br
15sr

+25 Relations with Gaen
+25 Relations with Orion
+25 Diplomacy with Indorians
+15 br/year
+15 sr/year
Beta Corridan 31 Mining Colony option

USS Miracht
----

15 br
5pp
5 rp

Galus V Mining Colony option
-100 Relations with Sydraxians

Other Ships
----

CAS Riala -+25 relations with Federation
USS T'Kumbra -+5pp
USS Cheron - +10pp, +50 Relations with Indorians, +5 Cardassian Relations with Indorians, +1 Militarisation Point


Ship Movements
USS Polaris from Sol to Amarkia
USS Kumari from KBZ to CBZ
USS Cheron from Vulcan to CBZ
USS Challorn from RBZ to CBZ
1 Miranda, 1 Oberth from Tellar to Amarkia
1 Miranda from RBZ to Sol
1 Miranda from RBZ to Vulcan
1 Centaur from unassigned to Tellar

Ships Lost

None

Ships Damaged
USS Vigour
USS Miracht
USS Vokau

Ships Scrapped
None

Ships Laid Down
2 Excelsior

Ship Commissioned
1 Centaur
1 Oberth

Final Stockpile with Annual Income
265 + 365 = 630 Bulk Resources
10 + 260 = 270 Special Resources
87 + 44 = 131 Political Will
26 + 62 = 88 Research Points

New Personnel Pool
Standard Starfleet: 25.1 Officer, 32.4 Enlisted, 9.5 Techs
Explorer Corps: 1.75 Officer, 3 Enlisted, 2.5 Techs

NB: Unnamed Excelsior crew deducted this quarter. Now:
Standard Starfleet: 19.1 Officer, 27.4 Enlisted, 10.65 Techs
Explorer Corps: 2.25 Officer, 3.45 Enlisted, 4.25 Techs