Considering how close Romulan (and Klingon) space is to Solitude, they probably knew the results before we did. Now, whether they had a hand in those results...
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
It makes perfect sense for a border colony to vote for the Hawks. One could even say that it is only.... logical.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Whilst amusing, I'd think the Romulans would prefer that the Pacifists kept their seat. Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake!
[X] [COUNCIL] Plan Knowledge is Power
[X][TECH] Aerocommando Research Corps (Sk 3, Personal Equipment)
[X][TECH] Aerocommando Research Corps (Sk 3, Personal Equipment)
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
[X] [COUNCIL] Plan Expansion and Diplomacy
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm guessing that diplomatic pushes on the Hishmeri and Ittick-ka just aren't in the cards?
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
"Logic requires that these unstable elements be removed."
[X][TECH] Aerocommando Research Corps (Sk 3, Personal Equipment)
[X] Plan Yathcha's More Realistic Dream
- Location
- somewhere
I don't understand how a HBZ under these circumstances has so much appeal? Sometimes @Briefvoice gets a particular idea into his head and is impossible to persuade otherwise, but that shouldn't persuade others. Are you trusting him just because he usually makes deployment plans? You shouldn't, he doesn't have any special knowledge or unique skills relating to that, he just happens to be the person who usually does the work. All a deployment plan takes is being able to keep track of which ship is where and a very rough knowledge of what sectors we have and their characteristics. I know because I used to make them. There is no special expertise of any kind involved.
Even if you assume that a HBZ would be a fantastic idea under normal circumstances (which is far from a certain assumption) it's still a terrible idea this year. If any decision in this game can be said to be objectively terrible this is it.
Briefvoice starts with the extremely questionable idea that we have never experienced a penalty for not meeting defense requirements so there aren't any. But that's because we never failed to meet defense requirements when it could be helped! Concluding that something you have never done and never have seen done carries no penalty just because you have never seen such a penalty is fallacious to say the least. But even if that's correct and there is no direct penalty for failing to meet the requirements, that doesn't mean there won't be events triggered, and failing to respond to events absolutely does carry penalties. In the case of the HBZ failure to respond will likely mean the HoH encroaching on our affiliates. But let's even assume we can delay events being rolled as well.
Even in the absolutely ideal case where our ships only need a quarter in the GBZ to achieve their objective we still know that those from the furthest away (like from the Rigel sector) will be tied up for at least 3 quarters including travel time, because we know it takes a full quarter for them to get there. That means the absolutely earliest they can be back and reasonably be moved to a HBZ is in 2319.Q1. So even if everything goes absolutely perfectly we can at most get one extra quarter of HBZ benefit compared to requesting it next year and it becoming active immediately.
But it's not at all safe to assume they can achieve the objective in just one quarter! To start with the Cardassians get an extra quarter of preparations compared to what that estimate was based on, so it would probably already take longer than that even if nothing goes wrong. And it actuality all sorts of things might go wrong. There might be traps, super weapons, a genius enemy commander, more enemy ships than expected, or simply bad luck. Or even a big battle that we technically narrowly win, but that costs us half the fleet and damages the other half. It's not safe to assume that we will ever get any of the ships sent to the GBZ back, and certainly not in as little as a quarter.
So at best requesting the HBZ now gets us a moderate benefit if a whole stack of questionable assumptions hold and things go about as well as they possibly can. And it could easily end up giving the HoH an opening to spirit away one of our affiliates, precisely the thing it is supposed to prevent.
Even if you assume that a HBZ would be a fantastic idea under normal circumstances (which is far from a certain assumption) it's still a terrible idea this year. If any decision in this game can be said to be objectively terrible this is it.
Briefvoice starts with the extremely questionable idea that we have never experienced a penalty for not meeting defense requirements so there aren't any. But that's because we never failed to meet defense requirements when it could be helped! Concluding that something you have never done and never have seen done carries no penalty just because you have never seen such a penalty is fallacious to say the least. But even if that's correct and there is no direct penalty for failing to meet the requirements, that doesn't mean there won't be events triggered, and failing to respond to events absolutely does carry penalties. In the case of the HBZ failure to respond will likely mean the HoH encroaching on our affiliates. But let's even assume we can delay events being rolled as well.
Even in the absolutely ideal case where our ships only need a quarter in the GBZ to achieve their objective we still know that those from the furthest away (like from the Rigel sector) will be tied up for at least 3 quarters including travel time, because we know it takes a full quarter for them to get there. That means the absolutely earliest they can be back and reasonably be moved to a HBZ is in 2319.Q1. So even if everything goes absolutely perfectly we can at most get one extra quarter of HBZ benefit compared to requesting it next year and it becoming active immediately.
But it's not at all safe to assume they can achieve the objective in just one quarter! To start with the Cardassians get an extra quarter of preparations compared to what that estimate was based on, so it would probably already take longer than that even if nothing goes wrong. And it actuality all sorts of things might go wrong. There might be traps, super weapons, a genius enemy commander, more enemy ships than expected, or simply bad luck. Or even a big battle that we technically narrowly win, but that costs us half the fleet and damages the other half. It's not safe to assume that we will ever get any of the ships sent to the GBZ back, and certainly not in as little as a quarter.
So at best requesting the HBZ now gets us a moderate benefit if a whole stack of questionable assumptions hold and things go about as well as they possibly can. And it could easily end up giving the HoH an opening to spirit away one of our affiliates, precisely the thing it is supposed to prevent.
Last edited:
Seems a waste of good PP, I imagine.
Besides, we diplomatically pushed the Hishmeri away with our BIG FLEET, don't frown at me stesk
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
[x][TECH] Aerocommando Research Corps (Sk 3, Personal Equipment)
yes please
everything else is a bit more up in the air for me (would not mind a d-push on the sotaw) the 2 at a time option sounds really nice
how many shipyard and where i`ll like that to experts
yes please
everything else is a bit more up in the air for me (would not mind a d-push on the sotaw) the 2 at a time option sounds really nice
how many shipyard and where i`ll like that to experts
Waves hand weakly. What constitutes "enough" event coverage is something that's under constant debate. I will say that Chen's bonus is providing a really nice safety cushion right now. Combined with Mutual Support coming on line in Q4, and I feel much more comfortable about thinner coverage than I did before.
My guess is the HBZ will require about D10 or D11. We could get there with 2 or 3 ships... frankly I'd feel perfectly comfortable if we had to pull an Excelsior, a Centaur-A, and Miranda-A from Nash's fleet right now much less after she gets to fight with them for a quarter or two. I just don't think it's a big deal.
You question in a subsequent post why so many people are going along with my call for a HBZ... I think frankly that it's because it's just not that much of an investment (20 pp and spreading our fleet 2 or 3 ships thinner), and if I'm wrong the consequences almost certainly won't be that big of a deal.
@OneirosTheWriter clarified that it won't stop ships from coming in, but it will grant greater awareness of Horizon activities.
Six ships. Four Renaissances and 2 Constellation-A. They'll complete immediately before the next Snakepit.
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Being quite frank, you do that about as often as he does, Nix.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
On the other hand, we lose some ships to refits. Selaya and Docana are going into refit, as well as Odyssey, so our net is only the four Rennies.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
Tally time
No, the Selaya and Docana are being replaced by ships coming out of refit for a net zero (well, with a one quarter delay this year for the Selaya). So that's incorrect, we still net +2 Constellation-A when you include the new construction. The Odyssey is an EC ship so it doesn't really count for fleet distribution, and my estimate is that in 2319 the two Excelsiors we refit will both be EC ships, the S'harien and the Atuin. (We have to catch them as their 5YM end, or be forced to wait another five years.)
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
Your plan is perfect Nix. The only problem I have with it is the HBZ.
Was that praise or sarcasm?
So as a break from the Plan arguments, I had a few comments on the other stuff in the Snakepit....
To start off, let's compare election results with my pundits omake.
I had Kadann as being upset at what they saw as their relative isolation, and hence ripe for an upset.
I failed to predict this, but I guess the proximity to the KvR war was too much for them and they got nervous.
A real shocker. I thought for sure that zh'Chevyth would keep her seat after she got them that starbase she specifically campaigned on.
Per my omake, McCale promised to expand their shipyard to build more civilian ships.
(blinks)
Wow. I never really thought it would happen when I set this up way back when.
In the more recent omake too...
Rogers you smug bastard.... Oh this is going to be fun. So much fun. You like President Ladycat, I guarantee 'ole Solomon is going to finagle his way onto whatever committee oversees Starfleet. He may not be able to give orders, but he'll certainly "ask questions". And the funniest part is, I'm sure he'll consider himself to be "Starfleet's ally".
Trina is from my omake!
Called it.
Huh, I had Duss bav Xorggarv as not running for reelection, making it an open seat.
Looks like they still want a slowdown.
Oh damn, Solitude got them a Hawk! Well that poor border world has certainly seen enough trouble to leave them nervous.
Rigel has 3 Mercantile seats and 1 Expansionist. Indoria has 1 Development and 1 Expansionist. Looks like nothing but opportunity for the Hawks and the Pacifists, as they can't possibly lose seats.
At this point it's a race to see whether the Yan-Ros merge with the Honiani before they reach 500/500 with the Federation or not. I would not expect to see much from the Laio for reaching 300, though, and the Ashidi might have blockages to closer affiliation due to their paranoia. They'd want to know the Federation for longer, no matter how good relations are.
Ah, very interesting update on the Gretarians!
To start off, let's compare election results with my pundits omake.
I had Kadann as being upset at what they saw as their relative isolation, and hence ripe for an upset.
I failed to predict this, but I guess the proximity to the KvR war was too much for them and they got nervous.
A real shocker. I thought for sure that zh'Chevyth would keep her seat after she got them that starbase she specifically campaigned on.
Per my omake, McCale promised to expand their shipyard to build more civilian ships.
(blinks)
Wow. I never really thought it would happen when I set this up way back when.
In the more recent omake too...
Rogers you smug bastard.... Oh this is going to be fun. So much fun. You like President Ladycat, I guarantee 'ole Solomon is going to finagle his way onto whatever committee oversees Starfleet. He may not be able to give orders, but he'll certainly "ask questions". And the funniest part is, I'm sure he'll consider himself to be "Starfleet's ally".
Trina is from my omake!
Called it.
Huh, I had Duss bav Xorggarv as not running for reelection, making it an open seat.
Looks like they still want a slowdown.
Oh damn, Solitude got them a Hawk! Well that poor border world has certainly seen enough trouble to leave them nervous.
Rigel has 3 Mercantile seats and 1 Expansionist. Indoria has 1 Development and 1 Expansionist. Looks like nothing but opportunity for the Hawks and the Pacifists, as they can't possibly lose seats.
At this point it's a race to see whether the Yan-Ros merge with the Honiani before they reach 500/500 with the Federation or not. I would not expect to see much from the Laio for reaching 300, though, and the Ashidi might have blockages to closer affiliation due to their paranoia. They'd want to know the Federation for longer, no matter how good relations are.
Ah, very interesting update on the Gretarians!
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
You could...maybe check the tally, a few posts above yours, and see he voted for it?