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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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[X][COUNCIL] Plan ALL THE THINGS and KEPLER

The sooner we start the Kepler, the better. Any future improvements can be done via refits.

Something something the perfect is the enemy of the good
 
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[X][COUNCIL] Plan Drop Kepler and Ferasa Shipyard for Indoria Starbase

Nix made some good points in favor of waiting for certain technologies to finish research before beginning the Kepler design process.

With the development of the heavy industrial park, further development of UP just became that much more viable and valuable. Every addition to the infrastructure there only compounds the benefits of the HIP, and comparatively, that Ferasa shipyard is an absolute waste of pp. One 3mt berth in 12 turns(is this like three years?) for 6pp less than the UP expansion which builds a 3mt and a 1mt in four turns. Even the Amarkia yard with a 3mt and a 1mt is a better value, IMO. That said, I would have developed UP if we could, but that extra 6pp was a deal breaker; however, I still find the Ferasa shipyard to be a waste of PP that could be better spent.

Between not starting the Kepler and the waste of space that is the ferasa yard, we have enough for that Indoria starbase. They're on the Cardassian front. If anyone needs a starbase, it's Indoria.
 
pheonix89 said:
Jesus.

That Kepler.

That's Excelsior-level response capability on an escort platform that costs about 40% as much as an Excelsior.

Edit: Objection to plan withdrawn. Mostly. Still think an Indoria starbase is more pressing than a KBZ one. And would like to note that homeworld trumps major colony as a defense priority.
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@Briefvoice quoted the wrong (old) design though.




Nix said:
Modules not being settled down means that lack of a T3 warp core or the like could end up costing us a stat point, or lack of T2 Nacelles increase the SR cost, even assuming we only lock down parts and not the design. Starting now also makes a mess of research plans, and it doesn't delay a sensibly planned for Combat Frigate (which at minimum should include T3 tactical frame) at all, because it doesn't delay the key technologies researched by other teams in the mean time (or shifts whether they are researched before the Kepler or after). Also, we already voted on this two years ago, and not enough has changed to overthrow a 23:3 vote.
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As the lead designer on this project, basically everything Nix says is bullshit. I've been arguing over this in the SDB thread at great length and with many hours of investigation into possible designs with modules or with extra research, and I'm sad to see all the assertions that I proved false there come to roost here.

We're ready for the Kepler now. Nix is wrong.

pbluekan said:
Nix made some good points in favor of waiting for certain technologies to finish research before beginning the Kepler design process.
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He's repeating points that have been proved false.
 
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Drop Kepler and Ferasa Shipyard for Indoria Starbase
 
Briefvoice said:
You're welcome to your opinion and you can vote for whatever you want, but I resent you playing the "this has already been decided" card.
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Do you dispute that it's useful to be able to make long term plans? Do you think it would be better if we second guessed ourselves at every step? Maybe we should vote for some entirely different type of ship to be designed next instead of the Kepler, if someone whips up a design that looks satisfactory on a whim?

I didn't even vote in the research turn 2314. While I would never bring forward an argument that I didn't think valid 95% of the reason I'm bothering to argue this at all is precisely because we voted for it, and I resent the implication that I'm just playing a rhetorical card. Between constant admiral bonus changes, random event bonuses, uncertainly about future teams and fluctuating rp income long term research planning is already difficult enough. I really don't want to set the precedent that even the clearest consensus can be readily overthrown at any time without clear evidence that the new course is actually better. That's the sort of thing that makes me think about giving up on trying to plan head altogether and just look at it year to year.
 
Well, if SWB thinks we're ready, I'll assume we're ready. Going by track record SWB is always right about ship designs.

[X][COUNCIL] Plan ALL THE THINGS and KEPLER
 
[X][COUNCIL] Plan ALL THE THINGS and KEPLER

People are starting to feature creep this ship too hard. The opportunity cost of delaying isn't worth it here when we have a great design already that the designer himself thinks is great.
 
Look we know survey sensors boost mapping missions and mapping missions give us a chance at mining colonies. In addition there are tech choices we can take that increase the chance that an event is a mapping mission. And the Kepler is going to be a long term ship in terms of how long they will be in service and deployed in sizeable numbers.

As such I think it is important to know how quickly we can refit the design to include survey sensors if we chose to start it this year, which we don't know yet.
 
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Omake - Know Your Foe - Night
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    • IT'S OMAKE TIME!

    Know Your Foe

    To know your enemy is a comforting feeling. It grows over time, as you read their mail, watch their habits, study their skills. It has benefits beyond the obvious knowledge of what they can do. A known enemy, like a known factor, is one that troubles the mind less; in planning there is a greater inclination to hope and belief in the possibility of victory, in conflict less fear and more certainty, a willingness to consider the aggressive rather than the conservative. Conflict is rarely won by the timid, after all.

    Usually. Not always. This idea is premised on the belief that the enemy is broadly alike in power and skill. For the Cardassian Union, this was becoming a large problem now. The aggressiveness of Rachael Ainsworth had worried them, but been considered manageable. They knew less about her replacement, though T'Lorel's public career was definitely cause for concern. Anyone who had managed to get a reputation for orbital phaser strikes greater than any living Cardassian admiral in the effete Federation was surely a person to be wary of.

    The old familiar Kumari, an opponent of years now, to be treated with caution-and then a bolt of lightning from a clear sky. ka'Sharren was here. There was no reprimand when the Jaldun captain didn't even try to shadow the Federation dreadnought. The commanding admiral considered it lucky he got the ship back at all. The fact the Kumari had altered course and come straight at them the moment they were detected should probably have been enough to tip them off in the first place. Not even Ainsworth was that aggressive.

    Any other Starfleet commodore or admiral would be a danger, at most. But not ka'Sharren. ka'Sharren was a thing they knew in intimate detail, but did not understand; her capablities remained a closed book despite their knowledge, being only "more than we have seen, but how much we do not know". Her legend had only grown with her time away from the Cardassian front, with the Obsidian Order have greedily sucked up every detail about the Battle of Ixaria Approach and the death of the Arcadian Emperor. Aggressive patrol schedules were restricted. Civilian craft were called to port. Plans to expand were abandoned. The defensive perimeter contracted.

    So might a Vulcan step back from a debate, discovering that Surak was their opponent; a Romulan withdraw from battle, discovering the enemy fleet was commanded by Valdore; a Human general concede the field to Alexander. Sometimes knowing your enemy merely tells you how much you should be afraid.
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  • Threadmarks
    • Nix said:
    Do you dispute that it's useful to be able to make long term plans? Do you think it would be better if we second guessed ourselves at every step? Maybe we should vote for some entirely different type of ship to be designed next instead of the Kepler, if someone whips up a design that looks satisfactory on a whim?

    I didn't even vote in the research turn 2314. While I would never bring forward an argument that I didn't think valid 95% of the reason I'm bothering to argue this at all is precisely because we voted for it, and I resent the implication that I'm just playing a rhetorical card. Between constant admiral bonus changes, random event bonuses, uncertainly about future teams and fluctuating rp income long term research planning is already difficult enough. I really don't want to set the precedent that even the clearest consensus can be readily overthrown at any time without clear evidence that the new course is actually better. That's the sort of thing that makes me think about giving up on trying to plan head altogether and just look at it year to year.
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    Thing is? The ship design wizards don't appear to think think they'll get any more performance from those techs.

    The long term plan appears to have based on specifics of the mechanics that don't hold any longer.

    Yeah, I did a 180, but it's SWB. He's pretty much always right here.
     
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    Plan defunct, I recommend
    [X][COUNCIL] Plan ALL THE THINGS and KEPLER
    instead.


    [X][COUNCIL] Plan INDORIA STARBASE and KEPLER
    • Request new Starbase I [KBZ – Shrantet III] 25pp for KBZ
    • Request new Starbase I [Indoria] 27pp
    • Request Mining Colony at Kohl II, 16pp, 25 (30) br & 25 (35) sr /yr, 4 turns
    • Request Research Colony at Acacia V, 7pp 5 (7) rp/yr, 4 turns
    • Request Mining Colony at Piara V, 8pp, 25 (30) br/yr, 4 turns
    • Request Allocation for an Excelsior's resources, one-off-infusion of an Excelsior's cost, 40pp
    • Request Academy Development, 40pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
    • Request Start of Science Frigate project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 10pp
    • Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, [Weapons and Offensive Doctrine] - 20pp
    • Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, [Starbase and Defensive Doctrine] - 20pp
    • Sponsor efforts to create Heavy Industrial park to reduce construction times by 25% in that system when making either a parallel or serial build, provides Heavy Industry options pre-SoE, 115pp (Mars in Sol System)
    • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Ashidi]
    • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [The Tauni]
    • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Yan-Ros]
    • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Hishmeri Septs]
    • Acquire additional resources for Starfleet Intelligence Operations, 20pp (Will improve ops teams next time they are required)
    Leaves 12pp, which I'll edit in something for later. Worth noting @Briefvoice and @ all other plan makers that the research colony option we have isn't Cronulla VI, we built that one already last year.



    chriswriter90 said:
    Nice! If we can squeeze out one more C, the Miranda and Centaur are officially obsolete!
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    Combat's expensive, man, +1C would be too much. And you can buy two Miranda-As for that cost.
     
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    Gravitas Hunt said:
    Uh... Briefvoice's plan has an Indoria staircase.
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    It doesn't have a Starbase for Indoria. It takes KBZ and LBZ instead:

    Briefvoice said:
    [X][COUNCIL] Plan ALL THE THINGS and KEPLER
    • Request new Starbase I [KBZ – Shrantet III] 25pp for KBZ
    • Request new Starbase I [Licori Border Zone - Sector Commander's choice] 25pp for LBZ
    • Request Mining Colony at Kohl II, 8pp, +25 / +25 br/sr per year, 4 turns
    • Request Research Colony at Cronulla VI, 8pp 5 (7) rp/yr, 4 turns
    • Request Mining Colony at Piara V, 8pp, 25 (35) br/yr, 4 turns
    • Request Allocation for an Excelsior's resources, one-off-infusion of an Excelsior's cost, 40pp
    • Request Academy Development, 40pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
    • Request Start of Science Frigate project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 10pp
    • Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, {Weapons and Offensive Doctrine] - 20pp
    • Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, {Starbase and Defensive Doctrine] - 20pp
    • Request new Shipyard at Ferasa, 22pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth)
    • Sponsor efforts to create Heavy Industrial park to reduce construction times by 25% in that system when making either a parallel or serial build, provides Heavy Industry options pre-SoE, 115pp (Mars in Sol System)
    • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Ashidi]
    • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [The Tauni]
    • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Yan-Ros]
    • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Hishmeri Septs]
    • Acquire additional resources for Starfleet Intelligence Operations, 20pp (Will improve ops teams next time they are required)
    Notes:
    So that comes to 441 exactly! Added in Intelligence Operations boost since Sulu's bonus makes it more valuable.
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