I'm actually fairly fine with Apiata using a fairly complex olfactory language in connection with body and oral language while in civilian and domestic contexts, but using primarily oral language in a Military or industrial context where it is absolutely vital that information get through and not be subject to interpretation issues, or like, the wind.
 
This conversation is making my bachelors of microbiology tingle in its cupboard where I put it away to play with money.

Here, have a meaningless, trashy, meme.

 
We could also have developmental goals, like a number of hospital ships, upgrading a number of shipyards to 2 MT for next generation cruiser construction, or getting 100% redundancy in critical ship infrastructure.
 
Prepare For Next-Generation 2mt Ship would be interesting I suppose.

It's a bit difficult to control the building and development of new auxiliaries though, so IDK if that's feasible without relinquishing to us more control.
 
What seems a bit unlikely is that such a faculty for emitting vibrations in air would evolve naturally, complete with a 'reader' for the involved frequences that translates particular frequency-domain time series directly into abstract data in the host organism's etc etc etc.

If you start with a trivial olfactory communication mechanism, and then evolution continually selects for higher bandwidth...
Sigh.

No, look, there's actually a difference. Seriously, there is.

The difference is that evolution doesn't work by sitting down with a drawing board and devising clever and exotic engineering solutions to problems. It works by exerting selection pressure on a variety of mutant forms of what's already there, preferentially selecting for the forms that give the most pro-survival, pro-reproduction capabilities. And given a choice between evolving an entirely new and unprecedented structure or mechanism for something, versus adapting an old structure or mechanism, evolution will always pick the latter.

This is why even though wings have evolved in parallel at least twice times in vertebrates, in both cases the wings evolved as adaptations of the arms, not as completely new limbs sprouting from the existing skeleton. This is why whales and dolphins have tail skeletal structures adapted from the legs of land-based mammals, not redesigned-from-first-principle skeletons more suited for sea life. This is why all land vertebrates have two eyes and not four or six, and so on.

Sign language, spoken language that works by vibrations of air or clacking carapace pieces like castanets or whatever, what they all share is voluntary control of a muscle. For any organism that is by nature mobile and not sessile, voluntary muscle control is a basic physical faculty. All organisms have it, and mutations to the physiological structure of an organism don't stop the organism from having functional voluntary motor control.

Therefore, repurposing voluntary motor control for new purposes is fairly simple.

...

To "start with a trivial olfactory communication mechanism," as distinct from Earthly pheromone communication, you need a creature with voluntary control over its own chemical production, in the same way that we have voluntary control over our muscles. Earthly creatures do not, on the whole, have this; their secretion of pheromones appears involuntary and automatic, insofar as I can tell. Certainly there's no Earthly organism that can deliberately decide in reaction to its environment whether to put an A, C, G, or U on the end of an RNA molecule, as opposed to having autonomous mechanisms that work on RNA without the creature's awareness.

The underlying problem here isn't that evolution, working on a simple example of the mechanism you propose, would fail to create a complex and fully effective version of the mechanism.

The problem is that there is unlikely to be a simple example for evolution to work on in the first place, unless we posit an extremely strange biochemical system in which the organism's brain is capable of consciously directing, on a highly detailed level, exactly what chemicals the body synthesizes and in what order.

...

It's like saying "imagine humanoids with angel wings." For angel wings to evolve- that is, wings that sprout out of the back and leave the arms unimpeded- you would need a pre-existing organism with six limbs. There's no reason that can't exist, but it would be reflected elsewhere in the evolutionary tree of that planet on a fairly large scale, because basic details of physiology like "how many limbs does this organism have" and "how to basic biochemical pathways work" tend to take tens of millions of years to evolve.

By contrast, gross physiology evolves a lot faster because minor mutations are less crippling and can therefore accumulate.

For example, chihuahuas, pugs, dachshunds, and Great Danes share a common ancestor no more than twenty to forty thousand years ago, and each species was differentiated from the others by no more than a few thousand years of intense selective breeding. Physiologically the difference between them are huge, but they all involve reshaping of existing biological structures. Nobody's ever managed to breed a six-legged dog, or a dog with new sensory organs that don't exist in other animals, or a dog that can deliberately alter its own scent gland performance as a way of communicating complicated instructions to other dogs.

Why? Maybe that's the case for you, but there are things in the animal kingdom that make much more "conscious" use of biochemistry. I don't see why it'd be so hard to evolve a mechanism for this, certainly not compared to things like the voicebox or ears.
Because all it takes to create a 'simple ear' is a flap of skin that vibrates in response to vibrations in the air, and there are enough reasons to be sensitive to changes in ambient pressure and vibration for evolution to start acting on this fairly efficiently. All it takes to create 'simple vocal chords' is a set of muscles somewhere along an organism's windpipe that can selectively interfere with the airflow to create sounds. Both of these are the kind of things a random mutation can create given basic physical structures (like the organism having skin at all, like the organism having a windpipe at all combined with muscles for breathing and regulating the passage of air).

Creating a 'simple chemical-speaker' requires the organism to have some mechanism for deciding "Okay, now I'm going to add an extra T group to the RNA molecules I'm emitting, now I'm not, now I'm going to, now I'm not." This is a whole different order of problem than "now I'm going to flex this muscle, now I'm not, now I am, now I'm not." ALL mobile animal life in all plausible ecosystems shares the ability to decide to flex muscles, so an extra flap or blob of muscle tissue in the right place doesn't require the evolution of new biochemical pathways, new control structures, or new exotic failure modes for the organism's development.

The "chemical-speaker" requires all these things, because you need a special RNA-rewriting mechanism that (and this is important) postdates the evolution of brains. This is very different from the way things work in Earthly life, where most of the basic mechanisms for how our RNA/DNA encoding system and read/write machinery work developed in pre-Cambrian times when all life was single-celled organisms. There aren't a lot of radical new features in RNA/DNA reading and writing, at the basic level, that emerged after the development of multi-celled life. Some, but not a lot.

The problem is that most possible ways to alter RNA/DNA reading and writing result in rapid increases in mutation rate and death for the organism's descendants. It therefore takes evolution a long, long time to create workable mechanisms for this sort of thing. Much longer than it takes to evolve minor adaptations to existing physiological structures that already work and just need to be reshaped a bit.

[1] Hey, that's exactly a mechanism! Length of a polymer chain is each discrete signal, you have different length emitters and different length receptors each with their own lengths, you get small to no leakage between similar lengths because protein binding sites are nifty that way, then you transmit and receive a intensity distributions in the polymer-length domain exactly the same way we transmit and receive intensity distributions in the frequency domain.
Yes, Q could design this capability into an organism and it would totally work.
 
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Omake - Old Soul, New Daughter Ch 1 - Simon_Jester
OLD SOUL, NEW DAUGHTER
Chapter One

Eddie Leslie looked out his office window at the mostly-assembled explorer out the window. The ship that the Ana Font engineers had been working on for longer than he'd even been here.

The ship known to him- for the duration of the construction work, pending official naming from Starfleet Command- as Garland Belle. The Tellarites hadn't had the custom of giving their ships working names while under construction as an accomodation of Starfleet's dilatory naming habits. A mere nine hours of cumulative debate had earned Eddie the right to pick a name for the Excelsior under construction in the heavy berth. The name had brought a happy light to Susan's face when he told her, and that was reward enough to be worth ninety hours of arguing with Tellarites, let alone nine.

Well, maybe not ninety. Nineteen. He'd go with that.

Anyhow, the ship would pick up a new name soon; the paperwork for that would be coming soon enough. Maybe they'll rename this one, call her 'Enterprise.' It's what they did in '86... And he'd be damned if he'd turn over as poorly tuned and half-baked a mess as the crew over at San Francisco Yards had for Jim Kirk.

He'd probably never have made commander, if not for the mess that had made in Shipyard Ops. Scotty'd gotten the new Enterprise into shape eventually, but- never again.

But he already knew the ship he secretly imagined as NCC-1701-C would be better than that. The Tellarites were a good crew, they knew their business, and their procedures were rock-solid.

Dizzy buzzed him. "Call from Starfleet Command- Admiral Sulu's personal code."

"Well, put him on!"

The familiar face appeared, wrinkled by time, but on the whole a hell of a lot better preserved than he could claim to be. Sulu was two years his senior, but looked ten or twenty years his junior. A spike of jealousy aside, though, Eddie couldn't help but be proud that one of the '66 mission team had finally made it to the top of the ladder. It wasn't a moment too soon, if you asked him.

His voice warmed, remembering the jams Sulu had gotten them out of back in the day. "Hello, sir. What's the occasion?"

"You've heard the rumors that the new ship you're working on for the Corps is going to be christened as Enterprise instead of Tarrak."

"I have, sir."

"Well, the bad news is, we won't be doing that."

"Oh..."

"As for the good news-" Sulu smiled slyly. "The good news is, Admiral Chen and I decided to give Ambassador a twin sister over Mars, starting in a few months. You can guess what we're naming the twin."

"...My." Eddie whistled reverently. "You don't think small, do you?"

"Not if I can help it. The problem is, Chen's moving to Operations, so she won't be able to supervise the shipyards directly. We want you to run Utopia Planitia to make sure the job gets done right."

That... that was a hell of a thing. Eddie scrutinized the admiral's face, looking for any sign of this being some demented early April Fool's prank. Hikaru Sulu's bemused expression was routine enough to make one hell of a poker face in its way, but...

Eddie Leslie had known Sulu for fifty years, spent long, terrifying hours as close to him as a brother. The man wasn't joking.

Leslie nodded slowly. "...They're going to ask me who I blackmailed."

"Tell them I owe you for being the one who remembered to bring the spare phaser powerpacks on Alfa 177. Without them, we'd all be dead."

"But that was Fisher."

"You're a pretty good storyteller. Who's going to argue?"

Eddie laughed, then straightened with only a flicker from his side. "Yes, sir!"

"Of course, there's a catch."

"If I couldn't take a catch, I wouldn't have signed up." Eddie felt a bit of the old fire in his veins, abraded though it was by his brushes with madness and death, his decades of desk work and constant pain.

"We're going to expect you to keep the Ambassador construction work running on the timetable Patricia's putting together now."

"...Oh, Lordy."
 
Discovering colony sites is also luck based.
Unlike the other luck based suggestions we actually have a lot of levers to influence this, though. Pick options that give a bonus to mapping missions, research mining techs that raise colony chance, increase number of 5YM, build ships with high science like the Constellation-A, research mining techs that raise mine output, pick MWCO options to build colony/engineering ships when they come up to increase the number of colonies we can request per year. And of course actually request those colonies in snakepits and avoid budget requests.
 
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Therefore, repurposing voluntary motor control for new purposes is fairly simple.
I think you wrote about two OOM more than you needed to. This sentence alone is a reasonable argument.

I think that you're missing the part where every single cell in our body is continuously undergoing complex high-bandwidth chemical signaling. The mechanism is not just there, it's fundamental on a level far, far deeper than musculature. Even prokaryotes have voluntary chemical synthesis. It's just about the first thing evolution did.

The question, then, is why earth animals didn't evolve to use it on a macro-scale. The answer is that it wasn't useful to them. That's it. And if that changes, then I guarantee that the ability to do particular syntheses would evolve pretty rapidly. One use case that I can see, drawing on Earthly examples: Status/health signaling leads into social combat thence intelligence. On Earth with Humans, one of the leading hypotheses for the evolution of intelligence is that it was to be smarter than the opposition so you could steal mates. For the Apiata, just start that cycle on territory marking, with animals learning to consciously control the scent signals they leave to pretend to be different than they are. Then you have lies, and attempts to discern lies, and better lies, and better discernment of lies: More and more control, better and better sensation, etc.

I'll admit that the "RNA signaling" idea was mostly an argument that you were setting your horizons far, far too short. Evolution is unbelievably creative. The variable-length polymer chain idea I think is much easier to evolve. It only takes a single mutation to go from being able to sense any one of a range of that particular polymer to being able to tell the difference between "long" and "short" instances, and that's a massive sensory upgrade that gets fixed almost immediately. I'm having some trouble finding a reason for that kind of molecule to be in use in the first place.

Finally, so what if something is a less straightforward path? Evolution is random. We've got some species that have crippled body language because their faces are covered with nearly immobile scales. I think we have some species with tails despite the huge PITA those are for bipedal locomotion. etc etc etc. Why not one race that took a second path for communication?
 
Regarding BEES, the problem with using polymers or whatever for signaling isn't in the receptors, and it isn't in thinking of a reason for evolution to drive 'good at deliberately synthesizing the right chemicals on command like a voluntary muscle' once the ability to do that at all exists.

It's in coming up with a mechanism where the organism concentrates for a moment and starts emitting the right chemical, and has the ability to turn this on and off with the ease of flexing a muscle.

See, the problem is that while organisms have all sorts of chemical synthesis processes, these processes predate the emergence of any evolutionary need for intelligence and conscious communication. The most basic ones like RNA/DNA encoding predate multicellular life altogether. And they form a 'substrate' of the operations and reactions that provide a basis for higher-level functionality.

Chemical synthesis is to consciousness as electrons on the transistors of a microchip are to C++ code.

...

You can write a C++ program to process any abstract piece of information you want. But it would be very hard, if not impossible, to write a C++ program with the intent of making a particular single transistor on the computer's CPU fire at a specified nanosecond. That kind of manipulation at the most detailed object-level is simply not aligned with the purposes and design goals of the programming language.

And that ties into biology. Conceptually, yes, the chemical synthesis processes predate the brain. But that doesn't mean it will be easy for the brain to exercise control over the details of chemical synthesis. Quite the opposite, because most ways the brain could consciously say "start cranking out long-chain polymers of type XYZ" lend themselves to various sorts of physical, neurological, or genetic damage.

An extra blob of muscle in the neck can exist without killing the owner assuming it doesn't straight-up block the windpipe. An extra regulatory pathway by which the brain can command the body to produce arbitrary combinations of a wide variety of random chemicals, evolved specifically to make use of the fact that said chemicals have bio-active effects... that's harder to safely put into the organism.

Which, again, argues in favor of intelligent design, if we ever see it on an organism.

...

What you're looking for here is a basic mechanism very different from anything that exists in Earthly life. A mechanism by which after brains evolve, a path of control evolves 'backwards' from the new brain system that enables it to 'hack' into the very much older chemical synthesis system, and synthesize precise blends of chemicals by willing the synthesis to occur. The same way that we can dance by willing our muscles to move in specific combinations.

I get that once such a mechanism exists, evolution will develop it into a much more precise, refined mechanism in short order. I get that once the 'chemical speaking' mechanism exists and is reliable enough to be used for communication, the 'chemical listening' will exist. My objection is that 'chemical speaking' requires overcoming some much more significant obstacles to evolve at all, as compared to other mechanisms of communication that use systems the brain is already wired to control directly, instead of systems it's barely even aware of.
 
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I should probably start following along with the conversations as well as the stories. Apologies if anything is being repeated or seems nonsensical.

Regarding the Nomads, I think it might be a good opportunity to try and build some trust/rapport with the other major powers. They seem like something that can disrupt a whatever sector of space they pass through, and discussing it with the rest of them could be a chance to establish more inter-empire (or whatever the proper term is) cooperation. It could blow up in our faces, especially if some of them say it's a trick or deception so we have a cover for any clandestine missions we want to carry out, but I think making the attempt to strengthen connections between the other powers is something that we should strive for.

For a new Ambition... why not terraforming? Creating an entire environment from scratch seems like an ambitious science project and could open up a lot of different options for really cool creations, like making a colony in a hollowed out moon. Creating a new world through the contributions of many disparate people seems really in line with the Federation's core values, and could be a very powerful and symbolic gesture.
 
Yeah, I don't think there's any way the Federation can really go for terraforming currently without making a lot of people very worried. Plus, it's not really a Starfleet thing, is it?
 
Well, I was thinking more "Grand Undertaking every member of the Federation can take part in" rather than "Superscience that can probably kill us all if we sneeze." Like seeding a planet with comets to increase water content, introducing basic lifeforms such as algae, and similar actions. Could make for an interesting science experiment as well by adding in species from different planets instead of using one source for biomass.

Might not be a Starfleet thing, I admit, but still like the idea of it.
 
Unlike the other luck based suggestions we actually have a lot of levers to influence this, though. Pick options that give a bonus to mapping missions, research mining techs that raise colony chance, increase number of 5YM, build ships with high science like the Constellation-A, research mining techs that raise mine output, pick MWCO options to build colony/engineering ships when they come up to increase the number of colonies we can request per year. And of course actually request those colonies in snakepits and avoid budget requests.

Now that is true. Hmmm.

In that case, I suppose the issue is that it's not a goal I'm actually all that wild about doing. Like, it's not actually something I want to orient our voting around because I don't think having a bunch of colonies is a particularly useful goal.
 
Now that is true. Hmmm.

In that case, I suppose the issue is that it's not a goal I'm actually all that wild about doing. Like, it's not actually something I want to orient our voting around because I don't think having a bunch of colonies is a particularly useful goal.
Well having colonies is useful, they just don't have much impact other than income.
 
If I could choose a goal without having to worry about archievability it would probably be one to resolve the tensions with Cardassia enough that they stop being a sword of damokles (I hope this idiom actually means the same in english as it does in german) hanging over starfleets head during all decisions. Declaring that our goal might startle them a bit though and we cant do anything at all if they are just hellbent on being dicks. Measuring progress here will be hard as well. Spamming starbases and listening stations on our border might be a possible concrete goal.

Another goal would be something related to the challenge of all the new members that will join soon. Putting this into a nice number to reach is hard though, since it is sort of just not fucking up our regular duties.
 
Another goal would be something related to the challenge of all the new members that will join soon. Putting this into a nice number to reach is hard though, since it is sort of just not fucking up our regular duties.
This, I like.

Being able to maintain our Hard Shell system is a good idea.

Thus: more ships, FD tech, more auxiliaries, and some of the items from the Development Sousa deal I proposed.
 
Starfleet Goal: Maintain a strong Forward Defense. (Complete all T2 Forward Defense Technologies, put a Starbase in every Border Zone, and complete first slide of Foreign Analysis Research for all accessible major powers.)

This is sort of a combo goal, but I think putting it all together expresses a definite philosophy of a forward-leaning defense of the Federation. It also encourages us heavily to complete that Klingon Research and get a Foreign Analysis team researching the Interstellar Commonwealth. ("Accessible" excludes the Ferengi, whom we are too far away to contact yet.) It's true we don't yet have the option for a Starbase in the Gabriel Border Zone or Licori Border Zone, but I'm sure that will appear well before the decade is out.
 
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