Hmmm, my thoughts are:
- Give the Courageous one Enterprise crew boost. She's farther from Elite than Sarek is.
- Refit the Sarek or don't, but let her hit Elite naturally.
- Two green ships, likely the one we're launching this year and another?
I'd prefer putting the +1 crew ratings on 3 green ships.

Courageous may not be as far along as Sarek is toward elite, but she surely has at least some experience towards it.

Besides, if she gets bombed/Licori-d/eaten/hijacked/Q'ed, it's really par for the course in her career :p

Serious question though: if we don't refit the Sarek, what do we do with her berth? It seems like the plan just blanks it out, which I don't agree with. So I'll stay on the refit Sarek plan.
Both plans leave a berth empty. It's either a SF 1mt berth (Sarek refit plan) or a LOCF 2.5mt berth (paired Miranda-A plan).
 
Also as it gets bigger it is more likely we have an explorer run into an event where it ends up being lost as explorer corp events have higher DCs than normal events for the same difficulty and are rolling an event each quarter which they have to try and pass.
 
Also as it gets bigger it is more likely we have an explorer run into an event where it ends up being lost as explorer corp events have higher DCs than normal events for the same difficulty and are rolling an event each quarter which they have to try and pass.
That's ... not really a reason to not increase the size of the EC.

The risk per ship doesn't change.
 
I'd like to cap the EC at nine ships personally. That makes three ships a month, so it's similar to when we started with three ships a quarter.
 
Can't wait until we find out all these juicy new Admiral bonii. Prediction:

Chen's bonus: +1 to Response rolls.

Q. Which response rolls?
A. ALL OF THEM
 
By the way, check this out on the front page.

Major Powers
Romulans - Non-Aggression Pact (Treaty of Mars)
Klingons - Khitomer Accords
Cardassians - Treaty of Celos
Ferengi - Very limited contact
Interstellar Commonwealth - First Contact

The Ferengi are listed as a "Major Power". I mean... I guess? But really?
 
Changed my vote to not refit Sarek right now - I want to have the option to give Mrr'shan another FYM.
We're sending Sarek out as a weaker ship, in that case.

Planners, any particular reason for refitting Sappho over Docana or Vigour? Docana and Vigour are blooded, Sappho isn't.
Maybe deployment issues again? Some ships can be spared from their duties earlier rather than later.

The question I have is how big we actually want the Explorer Corps to get.
Well, at 3-4 EC crew of each type per year, realistically we're never going to be adding more than about one ship per two years. Is there a point at which we stop and say "thus far, no farther?"

Where have we deployed sensor networks? And - where is that information located? Frontpage somewhere?
I don't think we can answer that, but we do HAVE sensors covering the border region. Remember how during the Grey October crisis, we were able to track and monitor Cardassian fleet movements well outside our space? Yeah, that was sensors. Some of them on starbases, some on outposts, maybe some on little 'quantum outposts' of the kind that don't have heavy fortifications.

Small enough that Oneiros doesn't explode trying to create events.
Oneiros has said that if the Corps ever got unmanageably big, he'd probably just start writing stories for the adventures of SOME of the ships and just tell us the outcomes for the others.

Roughly 1/2 or 1/3 of our Explorer-class ships. That's what we've held to throughout the game.

Although, with the Ambassadors coming to fruition, it's time to stop adding Excelsiors to the Explorer Corps.
I'd say it'll be time to do that around 2319 or so, after which point we need to hoard Explorer Corps crew to have enough people to crew Ambassador and Enterprise as Explorer Corps ships.

I'd prefer putting the +1 crew ratings on 3 green ships.
I don't agree. Reason being, it's a lot harder to get a ship from Veteran to Elite, and takes a lot longer. Being Blooded might slightly increase the (favorable) odds of ship survival... But so far, all our new-built Corps ships made it to Blooded on their first five year mission. Yes, Green ships have run into trouble on a number of occasions, but so have Blooded and occasionally Veteran ships. And putting the crew on a Green ship involves us giving up the free +1 bonus in exchange for a thing we could have gotten more easily and more cheaply.

Moreover, it's physically impossible for us to do that within the Explorer Corps even if we wanted to.

Right now we have six Corps ships (not counting Stargazer): Sarek, Courageous, S'harien, Odyssey, Atuin, and Voshov. The first two of those ships are Veteran, the next three Blooded, and the last one Green.

Our options are:
1) Give +1's to Courageous and Sarek to get two Elite ships, then give the third +1 to a Blooded ship, upgrading her to Veteran.
2) Give +1's to Courageous and Sarek to get two Elite ships, then give the third +1 to Voshov, upgrading her to Blooded.
3) Upgrade Courageous OR Sarek to get one Elite ship, upgrade two Blooded ships to Veteran.
4) Upgrade Courageous OR Sarek to get one Elite ship, upgrade a Blooded ship to Veteran, and Voshov to Blooded.
5) Upgrade all three Blooded ships (S'harien, Odyssey, Atuin) to Veteran, giving us five (!) Veteran explorers.
6) Upgrade two Blooded ships to Veteran, and Voshov to Blooded.

I oppose giving the +1 to Voshov because, based on past experience, she's already 40-50% of the way to Blooded status, and Captain Sulu shows every sign of being able to keep her ship alive to that point in time.

Now, new options appear if we leave part of the Enterprise crew inactive for 2316 so that they can be assigned to the new explorer (probably named Tarrak) coming out in 2317. But that seems like a bit of a stretch.
 
Last edited:
[X][BETA] Oreasa Starfleet Shipyards
[X][CREW1] Crew with Explorer Corps
[X][CREW2] Crew with Standard Crew
[X][NAME1] Tarrak
[X][NAME2] Pleezirra
[X][AMBY] Heavy Ambassador
[X][BUILD] 2316 2 Ambassadors, Resume 1 Miranda-A, 1 Excelsior refit, 2 Miranda-A refits, 2 Constellation Refits
 
Last edited:
[X][BETA] Oreasa Starfleet Shipyards
[X][CREW1] Crew with Explorer Corps
[X][CREW2] Crew with Standard Crew
[X][NAME1] Tarrak
[X][NAME2] Pleezirra
[X][AMBY] Heavy Ambassador
 
We're going to need to do some heavy thinking about the 2317 shipyard ops plan, though. I have some stuff penciled in right now, but I'm by no means sure about it. We need to have a long think about what we're going to be looking for in Starfleet's fleet composition. How many frigates do we really need/want? Should we build Constellation-As? If so, how many is "enough?" Should we build more Miranda-As?
 
Also as it gets bigger it is more likely we have an explorer run into an event where it ends up being lost as explorer corp events have higher DCs than normal events for the same difficulty and are rolling an event each quarter which they have to try and pass.
As you note, that effect is purely linear. If we have a 10% chance of losing a ship every year in a five-ship Corps, we have (roughly) a 20% chance of losing one every year in a ten-ship Corps and a 30% chance in a fifteen ship Corps...

But we also just plain have more ships and consequently get more of everything else. The only way this becomes a limiting factor is if we're losing Explorer Corps ships as fast as we can build them, that is to say about one every 6-8 quarters. Given the Corps' historical casualty rate we'd need something like a 15-20 ship Explorer Corps before there was much danger of this happening. And if we had an Explorer Corps that big, it would be easy for us to expand our mining and berthing facilities (less so our crew capacity), so we could keep pushing harder at least to an extent.

I'd like to cap the EC at nine ships personally. That makes three ships a month, so it's similar to when we started with three ships a quarter.
Did we promise ourselves not to build any more Explorer Corps ships back then, or did we plan around the idea of building more as soon as we could?

By the way, check this out on the front page.

The Ferengi are listed as a "Major Power". I mean... I guess? But really?
Think less DS9 and more TNG. Imagine the Ferengi as being something like the Phoenicians of ancient times: Hard-driving merchants who go everywhere and meet everyone and have quite sizeable fleets of excellent, modern ships, based at their rich, well-fortified city planet-states.

Carthage was powerful enough to vie with Rome for control of the Mediterranean, remember. And Carthage was a Phoenician city-state, once- and not the strongest of them, either. Not until Alexander the Great swept through the Levant

We picture them as weak, cowardly, and 'minor power' because that is how they were largely portrayed in Deep Space Nine. DS9 already had the Cardassians and Dominion to worry about, plus occasional intrusions by Klingons and Romulans. They really didn't need yet a third major power appearing on its strategic radar.

But I can think of a lot of ways for the Ferengi to be militarily stronger in 2315 than in 2365 or 2375. Just shifting their favorite Rule of Acquisition more from "war is good for business" to "peace is good for business" would do it.
 
Our options are:
1) Give +1's to Courageous and Sarek to get two Elite ships, then give the third +1 to a Blooded ship, upgrading her to Veteran.
2) Give +1's to Courageous and Sarek to get two Elite ships, then give the third +1 to Voshov, upgrading her to Blooded.
3) Upgrade Courageous OR Sarek to get one Elite ship, upgrade two Blooded ships to Veteran.
4) Upgrade Courageous OR Sarek to get one Elite ship, upgrade a Blooded ship to Veteran, and Voshov to Blooded.
5) Upgrade all three Blooded ships (S'harien, Odyssey, Atuin) to Veteran, giving us five (!) Veteran explorers.
6) Upgrade two Blooded ships to Veteran, and Voshov to Blooded.

I oppose giving the +1 to Voshov because, based on past experience, she's already 40-50% of the way to Blooded status, and Captain Sulu shows every sign of being able to keep her ship alive to that point in time.

Now, new options appear if we leave part of the Enterprise crew inactive for 2316 so that they can be assigned to the new explorer (probably named Tarrak) coming out in 2317. But that seems like a bit of a stretch.

Or give Courageous and Sarek +1 so both are elite and then give the other +1 to a blooded ship, I think there was one that leveled up to blooded in Q3 or Q4
 
The Ferengi are listed as a "Major Power". I mean... I guess? But really?
I think people tend to underestimate how powerful the Ferengi were 'supposed' to be -- basically Klingons-But-Venture-Capitalists. The D'Kora was not seen as a slouch, being mentioned in the TNG tech manual alongside the Cardassians and Romulans. although I suspect the Ferengi hire a lot of mercenaries to help operate their fleet.

Classifying them as a major power also keeps them out of the reach of our affiliate-tentacles.

Actually this reminds me -- I've felt for a while the relation with our affiliates and major powers sort of resembles Civ V, with affiliates being the various city-states and the major powers the other players.
 
5) Upgrade all three Blooded ships (S'harien, Odyssey, Atuin) to Veteran, giving us five (!) Veteran explorers.
this sounds like a plan. as much as i would like elite 5 vets sound`s like a much better deal
 
We're going to need to do some heavy thinking about the 2317 shipyard ops plan, though. I have some stuff penciled in right now, but I'm by no means sure about it. We need to have a long think about what we're going to be looking for in Starfleet's fleet composition. How many frigates do we really need/want? Should we build Constellation-As? If so, how many is "enough?" Should we build more Miranda-As?
We're at... fairly high risk of Cardassian attack in the next few years. Probably as high as the risk we thought we faced back when we laid down Agile and the other 'A-series' Miranda-As immediately after we got the refit option. I think continued Miranda-A production is justified.

Constellation-A production is justified if we find ourselves long on enlisted, short on special resources, and with plenty of one-megaton berth space to play with. A Constellation-A is ALMOST as good for local event response as a Rennie and considerably cheaper in crew and resources. I think we should continue Excelsior-A production to the best of our abilities, given that the Excelsiors we lay down in 2317 will still be coming out of the yards before the Ambassador prototypes, and that we may need them urgently by 2321 to fill holes in our fleet created by a war with Cardassia.

Or give Courageous and Sarek +1 so both are elite and then give the other +1 to a blooded ship, I think there was one that leveled up to blooded in Q3 or Q4
Yes, that was my option (1).
 
Last edited:
We're sending Sarek out as a weaker ship, in that case.
For a value of weaker that includes being the strongest ship in known space, yes.

Maybe deployment issues again? Some ships can be spared from their duties earlier rather than later.
Sappho's currently in Vulcan, Huascar's replacing her when she's refitted.

Docana's at Andor, no reason Huascar can't replace her instead.

Same for Vigour, she's at Tellar.
 
I actually think that as we build our new Ambassadors, as each rolls off the line we should take one of the Excelsior out of the EC and move the crew to the Amby while putting the Excelsior into garrison duty. Get maximum amby in the EC without worrying overmuch about where the EC crew is coming from
 
On the flip side it is easier to add more berth space, and getting crew expansions up front also gives us a cushion against casualties. Plus heavy industry park in Sol is going to speed up our construction some what. I do think we want to grab the expansion again this year at least. Crew is also the one that takes the most time to catch up when we need it as it comes in small yearly increases. Berth space can be expanded rapidly if needed. Also I anticipate SR income increasing both from SR mining techs and more SR colonies (and we did find a 35 SR colony to work on at the snakepit).

To turn it around again, we're going to be getting crew (and resource) income increases anyway from all the upcoming member ratifications and major affiliations (300+ relations). And we don't get new berths from member ratifications.

Historically, new larger members have contributed around 3 crew (like Amarkia), while new smaller members have contributed around 2 crew (like Betazed), excluding their existing major affiliation bonuses and lost tech-based affiliation bonuses. New major affiliations have varied from 0.15 (Risa) to 1.05 (Seyek), and the tech-based affiliation bonus totals 0.45, although the latter is lost when the affiliate becomes a member.

So estimating the amount of crew increases, assuming a max of two ratifications per year:
Caldonians (member @ 2318): O+0.1 E+0.1 T+0.2 => O+0.5 E+0.5 T+1
Gaeni (member @ 2318): O+0.1 E+0.1 T+0.2 => O+0.5 E+0.5 T+1
Orions (member @ 2319): O+0.1 E+0.2 T+0.2 => O+0.5 E+1 T+1
Qloathi (member @ 2319): O+0.25 E+0.25 T+0.35 => O+1 E+1 T+1
Seyek+Fiiral (member @ 2320)*: O+0.35 E+0.35 T+0.35 => O+1.25 E+1.25 T+1.25
Risa (member @ 2320)**: O+0.05 E+0.05 T+0.05 => O+0.5 E+0.5 T+0.5
6 lost affiliates due to above ratifications: O-0.9 E-0.9 T-0.9
Kadeshi (major affiliate @ 2316)**: O+0 E+0 T+0
Honiani (major affiliate @ 2317): O+0.2 E+0.2 T+0.2
Yan-Ros (major affiliate @ 2320): O+0.1 E+0.1 T+0.1
Ked Paddah (major affiliate @ 2320): O+0.2 E+0.2 T+0.2
# minor affiliates should remain around the same (5) so no gain/loss in terms of tech-based bonus
Tech research of affiliate bonus of 0.15=>0.2 @ ~2322: O+0.4 E+0.4 T+0.4

... that's a lot of new crew income. Not gonna bother to math the total amount of new crew over the next 5 years from these estimates, but it's obvious that it's a lot.

* These guys were already on the verge of being a significant power like the Apiata.
** Yes, Risa's major affiliation only netted us an additional 0.15 total crew, when even the Betazed major affiliation increased by 0.4 total crew - so only 1.5 total crew when ratified may already be high-balling.
*** lolwut - honestly wouldn't be surprised if Kadeshi were either blocked from major affiliation or had 0 new crew income

edit: This isn't counting the EC crew income increases either.
 
Last edited:
We're going to need to do some heavy thinking about the 2317 shipyard ops plan, though. I have some stuff penciled in right now, but I'm by no means sure about it. We need to have a long think about what we're going to be looking for in Starfleet's fleet composition. How many frigates do we really need/want? Should we build Constellation-As? If so, how many is "enough?" Should we build more Miranda-As?
In regards to this with construction:
5 Oberths
16 Miranda and Miranda-A
8 Centaur-A
7 Constellation and Constellation-A
9 Constitution-B
6 Renaissance
1 Constitution-A
16 Excelsior and Excelsior-A
2 Ambassadors

I would likely prioritize more Renaissance to form the backbone of the combat fleet, with one or two Excelsior-A a year. Also I would consider sneaking in a few Constellation-A builds over the year as we have time. For escorts, I think with 24 we would use in combat 6 more started from 2317 to 2319, if we have spare SR I would favour the Centaur-A, that extra science gives a bit more evasion while taking it away from the enemy and they work a lot better in peace time. More likely a mix of 4 Miranda and 2 Centaur.
 
We're going to need to do some heavy thinking about the 2317 shipyard ops plan, though. I have some stuff penciled in right now, but I'm by no means sure about it. We need to have a long think about what we're going to be looking for in Starfleet's fleet composition. How many frigates do we really need/want? Should we build Constellation-As? If so, how many is "enough?" Should we build more Miranda-As?
As stated before I'd like one Constellation-A in every home sector, so probably 2 more in the immediately foreseeable future (Rethelia is probably going to be a new sector). An argument for putting two in the largest sectors could be made.
 
For a value of weaker that includes being the strongest ship in known space, yes.


Sappho's currently in Vulcan, Huascar's replacing her when she's refitted.

Docana's at Andor, no reason Huascar can't replace her instead.

Same for Vigour, she's at Tellar.
It also could be to keep from taking too many experience ships out, by doing 1 experience and 1 non-experienced refit at a time we keep 2 of our 3 experienced Constellations in the field where they are good event responders currently.
 
Back
Top