Enough that we know the completion dates of ships already ordered. And the Sarek refit would be 1y plus 5y mission, vs 5y mission then 1y, so the timing is definite there too.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
There will be another beloved EC captain who needs a slot 5 years from now I'm sure. If we don't refit the Sarek now we lose our chance for five years. Mrr'shan didn't move off the EC Panel when she went to her desk job; I see no reason she can't handle the EC ship that's going to come out in 5 years.
By the way, I have updated my sheet so that you can now build the SUPER-MIRANDA prototype and build SUPER-MIRANDAS after that. I know we won't actually call them that, but that's the placeholder names and codes I'm using.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
IF we were building a starbase at Indoria, could we also risk heavy berths there? Or what better, central but near to border and protected alternative is there?
- Location
- Infraspace
OK, extra votes. I'm ambivalent about the shipyard name, so:
[X][CREW1] Crew with Explorer Corps
[X][CREW2] Crew with Standard Crew
[X][NAME1] Tarrak
[X][NAME2] Pleezirra
[X][AMBY] Heavy Ambassador
[X][BUILD] 2316 2 Ambassadors, Resume 1 Miranda-A, 1 Excelsior refit, 2 Miranda-A refits, 2 Constellation Refits
[X][CREW1] Crew with Explorer Corps
[X][CREW2] Crew with Standard Crew
[X][NAME1] Tarrak
[X][NAME2] Pleezirra
[X][AMBY] Heavy Ambassador
[X][BUILD] 2316 2 Ambassadors, Resume 1 Miranda-A, 1 Excelsior refit, 2 Miranda-A refits, 2 Constellation Refits
Amarkia is ideal.
If we refit the Sarek now, she'll be back in space long before the Ambassador launches. But I have to dispute what you just said... the Courageous is unquestionably our bestship right now! I know because it has one of my OCs on board!
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Er, depends on whether you mean refit elite Sarek or a non-refit elite Sarek. Pretty much any build plan plus whatever effects of the heavy industrial park are likely to allow the Sarek to be available during the Ambassador launches. At most, there may be a two quarter period between Amby launch and potential Sarek duel.
Yeah, but like I said, the Sarek is the ship that least needs the refit, so waiting 5 years for a refit doesn't bother me that much. The soon-to-be-elite Sarek is going to be just as good as the Enterprise-B, and look how she fared. I'm honestly ambivalent either way.
The Courageous gets blown up too often to be flagship.
On other other other hand, 2316 seems like it'll be a decently quiet year to take Sarek out for a refit even if it doesn't "need" it... and it also bothers me a little to have an Elite crew not given the best technology to work with.
- Location
- Patriarchova
laughingcardassians.spoon
I keep seeing people say that but I'm not sure I agree with this position. The Ambassador isn't that much more expensive then an Excelsior-A:
Bulk Resources:
Excelsior-A: 57.5br/yr
Ambassador: 63br/yr (+10%)
Special Resources:Ambassador: 63br/yr (+10%)
Excelsior-A: 40sr/yr
Ambassador: 50.5sr/yr (+26%)
Officers:Ambassador: 50.5sr/yr (+26%)
Excelsior-A: 1.5O/yr
Ambassador: 1.5O/yr (+0%)
Enlisted:Ambassador: 1.5O/yr (+0%)
Excelsior-A: 1.3E/yr
Ambassador: 1.5E/yr (+15%)
Technicians:Ambassador: 1.5E/yr (+15%)
Excelsior-A: 1.3T/yr
Ambassador: 1.3T/yr (+0%)
The only major problem is that massive jump in SR expenditure. If we want to keep our current Explorer expenditure steady, equvilant of 2 Excelsior per year, we'd be making four Ambassadors instead of six Excelsior-As. If we increase our SR budget that goes to roughly three Ambassadors to every four Excelsior-As.Ambassador: 1.3T/yr (+0%)
Given that we're five years away from laying down the first production Ambassadors and ten years away from those first production Ambassadors leaving the shipyards I don't think it's unreasonable to assume we'd switch over to replacing Ambassadors instead of Excelsiors.
For some reason people have started dropping the 'Starfleet' from the name I proposed.
It's part of the name! Betazoids call their main yards Rixx Loxhanada Defense Yard, and the Starfleet yards should be called Oreasa Starfleet to differentiate!
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I figure that from here on out we should start refitting EX Excelsiors as they return from FYM.
Refit the rest between EC refits.
Note that we've got a couple of berths that can handle Excelsiors but not Ambassadors. We could dedicate those to the refits.
We also need to start refitting Constellations soon. Pacifist model Constellations aren't QUITE worth building as response platforms (they would be if they had one more P or D) or but they're massively improved over stock.
Refit the rest between EC refits.
Note that we've got a couple of berths that can handle Excelsiors but not Ambassadors. We could dedicate those to the refits.
We also need to start refitting Constellations soon. Pacifist model Constellations aren't QUITE worth building as response platforms (they would be if they had one more P or D) or but they're massively improved over stock.
Hmmm, my thoughts are:
- Give the Courageous one Enterprise crew boost. She's farther from Elite than Sarek is.
- Refit the Sarek or don't, but let her hit Elite naturally.
- Two green ships, likely the one we're launching this year and another?
Serious question though: if we don't refit the Sarek, what do we do with her berth? It seems like the plan just blanks it out, which I don't agree with. So I'll stay on the refit Sarek plan.
- Give the Courageous one Enterprise crew boost. She's farther from Elite than Sarek is.
- Refit the Sarek or don't, but let her hit Elite naturally.
- Two green ships, likely the one we're launching this year and another?
Serious question though: if we don't refit the Sarek, what do we do with her berth? It seems like the plan just blanks it out, which I don't agree with. So I'll stay on the refit Sarek plan.
Omake - Light of Indoria - Iron Wolf
The Light of Indoria
The stars sang to the Indorians, and that song had only been amplified by the likes of telescopes and deep space probes. But the gulf of space was vast, and the conventional drives that had been crafted after centuries of work too slow. The progress was too slow. Many on the Indorian homeworld had given up on the stars, aware that the iterative process of pushing themselves outwards was impossible. Even as their telescopes caught the terrible gamma radiation wash of a Gorn-Orion-Tholian battle, they wrote it off as a stellar quirk and convinced themselves that if sentient life did exist, it clung to its home systems, small rafts of life sent out slowly to nearby worlds to found less an interstellar empire and more a sister-world.
Until they found the spacecraft. Ancient slabs of metal, buried under Indoria. Ones bearing dust that materials engineers claimed could only have come from out there.
The upheaval was slow and drawn out, two great ideologies grappling in a death struggle. The Outer-Originists realized that they had come from the stars, and all the advancements they stood on came from the work of far older, possibly even other? beings. The Old Way suggested that the miracles of modern life -- the electricity that flowed even before written history, the complex inertial bearing systems that guided them across oceans without need of a compass -- were granted directly from the Mind-Fire, a force of pure creation that occasionally dropped a spark into the mind of an Indorian that led to something new.
They say Tarrak caught more than a spark of that Mind-Fire, that he was born under a blood-red moon, or maybe it was a comet, or sometimes a blood-red comet crossing a dusky blue moon. It was this that gave him a peculiar spark, a dangerous, wild intelligence that Indorians would later find rampant with the Gaeni. Tarrak was not interested in the upheaval, though he would later end it. He was interested in those dark-dusted shuttles. He wanted to make them go back into the dusk.
He was tired of going too slow.
His first step was to secure the shuttles. His quiet, burning intensity attracted followers, some who would become heroes in their own right -- names like Merolin, Panora, Vejonore -- and within a year they had driven off the bandits and the looters, the Old Way kooks trying to grasp onto their sacred artifacts. He plumbed the depths of the facility, dodging energy-beams from ancient security systems and the dangerous decay of the structure itself. He took forty years of study from materials engineers and synthesized the fuel used by the spacecraft in five. He became a linguist and a coder, and realized the alien code in the databanks had the same underlying structure as the one that ran in the great Temple-Machine in the ancient canyons of Nonia-Harash, the one jealously defended by fanatics as the avatar of the Mind-Flame, now desperately sought as yet more proof of the outer-origin theory. Tarrak gathered a team and snuck into the depths of the temple, dodging rectors and priest-soldiers, and used the Temple-Machine to translate the code inside the shuttle computers.
He would spent the next decade reading every word. He was 38 years old at the end of it. Others took that knowledge and flew the shuttles, the famed Panora circling the nearest star in a week-long expedition. But Tarrak stayed ground-bound. He learned these shuttles were nothing compared to the potential. He learned the full depth of the scientific method, something only scratched at by the Indorians over the four millennia they had the written word.
Tarrak was not a man satisfied with the low-power castoffs of an ancient power. But it would have to wait. To build a stardrive of his own, he would need the resources of the planet. He would need to set up schools and engineering offices. Maybe some other species could have cobbled one together in a bunker with a box of scraps, but Tarrak intuitively grasped that if they were going to see the project completed in his lifetime -- something considered almost ludicrous for any other development -- the whole planet would have to be united.
The longest work of Tarrak's life was doing that. He rejected the easy option -- the bombing from orbit of his adversaries, whispered of with almost sadistic glee by some of his advisors. But he rejected the idea that the Indorians would be able to craft a strong structure of cooperation and peace by dropping an asteroid on Old Way fanatics. And their knowledge, while esoteric, was valuable.
In his time, Tarrak resisted the attempts of well-meaning contemporaries to elevate his role in the unification of the planet. Tarrak always said that while he did some diplomacy with the more science-minded hold outs, and was instrumental in getting the final days in convincing the Old Way to finally see the light of reason, for the most part he left the unification of the planet to political engineer Merolin, a genius in his own right. Tarrak provided the facts, gleaned from the ancient computers and spun into comprehension by his own mind, Merolin found the people best suited to spreading these facts, crafting logic as solid as any building, finding people who could crush their opponents in debate and advance the cause. And where it was regrettably necessary, pick up the slug-thrower and command the armies in defense. And in the end, the Old Way surrendered, turned over the double-defended Temple Machine to the Outer-Originists, their old ideas and ideologies soundly defeated, no one left who cared to listen. These adherents were not outcast, however, except for the most fanatic and stubborn of them. Instead, under Tarrak's guidance, they founded the first school for computer science, which is why to this day the New Path Temple is called as such, instead of the New Path Academy.
Tarrak spent the next decade establishing such schools across the planet, teasing already existing traditions into metallurgy and optics and power generation and magnetism into schools worthy of a the name. Then, while he waited for those orchards of thought to bear fruit, he began the groundwork for the stardrive. Progress was slow. Few had the capacity to intuitively grasp the things Tarrak had learned in the ancient archives, and he was frustrated by the slow progress. He became an obsessive micro-manager, and in this way the man who had worked so hard to plant the fruit of knowledge contributed in some way to its strangling, sleeping for only an hour to wake up, eyes bloodshot, to direct some part of the project, the workers never learning for themselves, only following his rote command. Others on the project made only token efforts, for fear they would displease Tarrak and his singular vision.
These were the worst days of Tarrak. Ones he would apologize for, that the great unifier had let himself be blinded by ego and ambition. These dark days ended when he collapsed, the sleepless nights and malnutrition catching up to him. He languished for two years, kept away from the project by his own followers, limited to reviewing reports and offering distant advice. But even this was the steady pressure of a drumbeat, always echoing "more, more, more."
He returned mid-way to find the first crop of his schools working on the project, and began work alongside them. He removed himself as project manager, putting the trusted Merolin on oversight duty. Merolin was known as the one Indorian who could say no to Tarrak, the only one who could snap him out of an intense focus to order him to bed, or to eat. To moderate Tarrak's occasional outbursts. The project grew, and in fits and starts, eventually came to fruitition. This stardrive was inefficient next to the extant drives on the shuttles, sure, but it was more powerful, and engineering with Indorian care to be able to go further, longer. Tarrak watched, tears in his eyes, as the great drive was tested as a sort of radio, broadcasting his voice to a shuttle orbiting a distant star. The audio recording still exists, and you can hear his exhale when the shuttle replies, the comms system on the craft finally able to find a new companion in the stars. He immediately drew up plans for the first Indorian star-crosser, to be built partly in orbit, and to go further than the shuttles ever had. The computer he wrote it on, the original drafting files still on them, sits in a museum, that design copied almost to the weld four years later.
Tarrak's drafting of that design would the last spark of his genius that would land in the world. His life had been hard, scars and the invisible cracks of bones telling a story of struggle and adventure in his youth. His body had never fully recovered from his collapse, and a few days after presenting the ship design to his design team, he collapsed in the shower. He was not found for several hours, and when he was, the light of Indoria was dead. No one ever wanted to discuss if it was possible, had they discovered them earlier, he could have been saved. The guilt if that was so would weigh too heavy. The truth of this, the coroner took to his grave, an irony given how strongly Tarrak struggled to bring the truth of their origins to every Indorian.
The first act of the Star-Crosser Tarrak was to commit his preserved body to the void, on a suborbital trajectory that meant his remains would be a part of every Indorian forever.
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- Location
- USA
On the flip side it is easier to add more berth space, and getting crew expansions up front also gives us a cushion against casualties. Plus heavy industry park in Sol is going to speed up our construction some what. I do think we want to grab the expansion again this year at least. Crew is also the one that takes the most time to catch up when we need it as it comes in small yearly increases. Berth space can be expanded rapidly if needed. Also I anticipate SR income increasing both from SR mining techs and more SR colonies (and we did find a 35 SR colony to work on at the snakepit).
I would rather get her up to the A refit and make her Elite to give that just bit more of an oomph when we need it. Right now I think bumping both Courageous and Sarek to Elite and then seeing if we can use the remaining boost on the Excelsior under construction so it starts at blooded.
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
[X][BETA] Oreasa starfleet Shipyards
[X][CREW1] Crew with Explorer Corps
[X][CREW2] Crew with Standard Crew
[X][NAME1] Tarrak
[X][NAME2] Pleezirra
[X][AMBY] Heavy Ambassador
[X][BUILD] 2316 2 Ambassadors, Resume 1 Miranda-A, 1 Excelsior refit, 2 Miranda-A refits, 2 Constellation Refits
not totally sure i feel we are missing something, but for now ya this sounds good
[X][CREW1] Crew with Explorer Corps
[X][CREW2] Crew with Standard Crew
[X][NAME1] Tarrak
[X][NAME2] Pleezirra
[X][AMBY] Heavy Ambassador
[X][BUILD] 2316 2 Ambassadors, Resume 1 Miranda-A, 1 Excelsior refit, 2 Miranda-A refits, 2 Constellation Refits
not totally sure i feel we are missing something, but for now ya this sounds good
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I suspect that Sarek and Courageous are going to spend the next seven years in escalating, increasingly absurd competition for the 'flagship' title until, some time around 2322 or so...
"Hi everybody, I'm back!"
It would be extremely unwise of us to build Oberths at a time when we're this close to being able to build Keplers, because any techs we commit to Oberths are techs that will NOT be available to man Keplers.
Closer to the front, Indoria is risky but might be a good idea; the Indorian fleet isn't nearly as weak as I had previously feared (months ago). The main problem is that it's so close to Bajor and other Cardassian bases that it would be an obvious target for their first attack.
Apinae is a good possibility too, because the Apiata fleet is extremely strong for a 'minor power' and they have the means to grow their combat fleet very rapidly (as they are now doing). Apinae is about as secure as any forward position along the Cardassian border can possibly be, especially if the Cardassians lose the ability to rely on Sydraxian support in attacking Apiata space.
We have a number of outposts and installations in the space between Amarkia and Indoria/Apinae, but all of them are relatively lightly defended and spatially isolated, making them more vulnerable to a raiding squadron that somehow penetrates our border defenses and sensor networks. Plus, we've literally never been offered a chance to build a shipyard anywhere besides a Federation member world's homeworld.
"Hi everybody, I'm back!"
I have no doubt that we will, but in the very near future we're designing the Kepler-class, a frigate or light cruiser designed as a science vessel. While we aren't sure exactly what the Kepler's statline is going to be, it's going to make the currently available Oberth-class look like a dinky undergraduate science tugboat, having combat stats far superior to the Oberth's AND better Presence than a Centaur-A.
It would be extremely unwise of us to build Oberths at a time when we're this close to being able to build Keplers, because any techs we commit to Oberths are techs that will NOT be available to man Keplers.
Amarkia is a good choice as SWB notes.
Closer to the front, Indoria is risky but might be a good idea; the Indorian fleet isn't nearly as weak as I had previously feared (months ago). The main problem is that it's so close to Bajor and other Cardassian bases that it would be an obvious target for their first attack.
Apinae is a good possibility too, because the Apiata fleet is extremely strong for a 'minor power' and they have the means to grow their combat fleet very rapidly (as they are now doing). Apinae is about as secure as any forward position along the Cardassian border can possibly be, especially if the Cardassians lose the ability to rely on Sydraxian support in attacking Apiata space.
We have a number of outposts and installations in the space between Amarkia and Indoria/Apinae, but all of them are relatively lightly defended and spatially isolated, making them more vulnerable to a raiding squadron that somehow penetrates our border defenses and sensor networks. Plus, we've literally never been offered a chance to build a shipyard anywhere besides a Federation member world's homeworld.
That's a fair point. Especially if we don't demobilize our existing Explorer Corps Excelsior-As and shift the Explorer Corps personnel onto Ambassadors as they become available, we could well have a lot of room for regular fleet garrison Ambassadors.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Changed my vote to not refit Sarek right now - I want to have the option to give Mrr'shan another FYM.
Planners, any particular reason for refitting Sappho over Docana or Vigour? Docana and Vigour are blooded, Sappho isn't.
Planners, any particular reason for refitting Sappho over Docana or Vigour? Docana and Vigour are blooded, Sappho isn't.
- Location
- Patriarchova
The question I have is how big we actually want the Explorer Corps to get.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Where have we deployed sensor networks? And - where is that information located? Frontpage somewhere?
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Small enough that Oneiros doesn't explode trying to create events.
Roughly 1/2 or 1/3 of our Explorer-class ships. That's what we've held to throughout the game.
Although, with the Ambassadors coming to fruition, it's time to stop adding Excelsiors to the Explorer Corps.
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pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
How many Captains logs is the QM ok with writing per quarter?
The Explorer corps has amazing return on investment in peacetime and serves as one hell of a trump card at war.