Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
Narratively we get to build the Enterprise C in Sol, which I think was the driving motivation behind this entire situation.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@Iron_wolf and I were joking that I should have called the Omake r/atheism.
There are people on this very site who would argue that Korek is a soft touch and should go straight to the camps. None of this faffing about.
That is exactly what I was going for. Korek is not a cynical man. He genuinely believes and wants to do good. But the intellectual tools handed to him by the Cardassian Union are so limited that he can only do damage.
Even Pa'Dur, who has the best tools that Cardiassa has for the problem, doesn't really disagree in kind. She just thinks things should be taken slower to avoid too much breakage, not avoiding intervention altogether. She has contempt for Korek's heavy handedness and impatience, not his general goals.
The tragedy of the Cardassian Union is that it gives its people such a broken set of tools and instructions that good men seeking to do good can only be petty despots.
I think Someone said that they had fascination/worry with that point where good intentions turns to tyranny. That's something I share because I see the potential in myself.
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The vote that T'Lorel won?
- Location
- Australia
Do you really want another vote task there? Might get pretty irritating to have to vote on each year if you get another industrial park.Good to hear.
A suggestion: for the 115+ pp expense of a heavy industrial park, it should have capabilities along the lines of what a heavy industry team in the Arcadian crisis could provide:
Maybe some additional vote each Shipyard Ops phase?
The "prepare components" stuff is non-applicable or behind-the-scenes (unless you want to keep track of such components). That does remind me: the ability to buy repair yard berths would be nice
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Slept through that bit I guess.
Seems better just to make the thing more effective.
Maybe 1 month per half year (4 years = 40 months = 3 1/2 years by quarters, 2 years = 20 months = 1 3/4 years by quarters).
Maybe have it reduce BR and SR cost in that system by 5% or 10%. Or by 5 each per frigate/cruiser, 10 each per explorer? Something like that.
Maybe 1 month per half year (4 years = 40 months = 3 1/2 years by quarters, 2 years = 20 months = 1 3/4 years by quarters).
Maybe have it reduce BR and SR cost in that system by 5% or 10%. Or by 5 each per frigate/cruiser, 10 each per explorer? Something like that.
- Location
- Patriarchova
This actually brings me back to a conversation I had with Iron Wold and Anon User the other day, about Bajoran society as portrayed both in DS9 and in this quest.
On one hand, they're independently warp-capable and unified under a one world government. On the other, a significant number of them are living in rural farming and crafting villages, using techniques that wouldn't have been out of place in Earth's nineteenth century. This wouldn't be surprising at all if they were divided into multiple nation states with unequal wealth, but for a global polity it does seem odd.
Its one of several things that makes me suspect that Bajoran society was in a very weird place when the Cardassians showed up.
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From the list of what a Heavy Industrial Park during a SoE cam do there is a fairly consistent theme; it makes parts. The "Prepare Components for X" are pretty clear and straight forwards. The two rush construction options involve adding the HIP's construction capacity to the shipyard and only vary in determining if that capacity is focused or split. Finally the brute force repairs is outright replacing damaged parts instead of repairing them, hence the heightened cost involved.
So I would say a system with a HIP should generally see faster construction times of well anything. If we switch over to monthly tracking of construction, which stuff like the HIP and ship construction times on the spreadsheet suggests you want, then the current bonus, maybe upped a bit to -2 months per 12, applied to all in system construction could work. For a system like Sol that effectively would be Starships and Shipyards since any other infrastructure goes under our radar.
Otherwise you might want to increase the bonus from a HIP to starship construction to -1 quarter per year. Under SoE HIPs operate at -1Qtr per 3 Qtrs but they are probably running at over 100% capacity for that so dropping it down to one per year in regular time makes sense.
- Location
- Australia
Vote closes in two hours.
Perhaps a reduction of 1 Qtr per 6 Qtrs, minimum 1 Qtr reduction, and say it gives a 10 or 20% discount in pp requirements for any other infrastructure projects in the same sector?
- Location
- Infraspace
Well, given that UP didn't exist at the start of the quest, that's not really true...
Shouldn't be the opposite be the case in regards to the political cost since the other member worlds also want a piece of the pie that gets higher the more we centralize? I mean if we look at countries with strong connections between mandate and location, like the US for example, we often see deals that favour a decentralised approach since everbody wabts to have something in his home state/county. Or the EU which also takes that sort of thing into account.
- Location
- Patriarchova
We literally built UP during the time of this quest. Not a single Enterprise has ever been made at UP.
The same system pp reduction would lead to us never building slips outside of Sol again - too powerful sorry.
Can you imagine just how big UP would get ....
Edit
If we do build the Industry Park, does the Human Luna ship yard also get the benefits?
If it does, I can some of the other nembers where we have same system yards advocating additional industrial parks in their systems.
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- Location
- Australia
Yeah, I might just go with replicating Patricia Chen's bonus (even if she ceases to be). Instead of pp reductions, -1qtr time reductions.
So stacking with Chen will instead mean -1qtr to each build. Potentially something for serial builds but I don't nevessarily want to further disincentivise new ship types
So stacking with Chen will instead mean -1qtr to each build. Potentially something for serial builds but I don't nevessarily want to further disincentivise new ship types
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It basically requires that there be an industrial economy that functions under the caste system... PLUS the existence of 'traditional' castes like "literally an ox-driver that is what you do forever" that require the existence of a 'traditional' society that does not participate in this economy.
The hard part is actually (1) in my opinion. The best I can come up with to explain that is something like, oh...
Suppose that under the Bajoran system, the first two children born to any couple that reach adulthood are 'bound' to their parents' caste(s). However, third and subsequent children can be ritually reassigned to a new caste under certain specific conditions, by the priesthood. Say, an adoption ritual that the priests are responsible for mediating.
This serves several practical functions:
-It prevents local population of any one caste from growing beyond the local economy's ability to support (i.e. 'there aren't enough plots of land for every farmer-caste to be a farmer')
-It provides a partial mechanism by which the priests gain the power to reallocate labor, or at least small amounts of labor, in each generation. As the population grows, 'obsolete' castes like "literally ox-drivers" cannot normally shrink, but castes that are in heavy demand can 'grow' more rapidly than the population as a whole.
-And, obviously, it empowers the priesthood by giving them control over Yet Another Thing.
The long term effect of a system like this is that you have a planet that had a population of 1.5 billion subsistence farmers and petty craftsmen when its industrial revolution happened. Several hundred years later, much of the planet is industrialized and urbanized, but 0.5 to 1.0 billion of the descendants of the original 1.5 billion are STILL subsistence farmers and petty craftsmen, because they're "locked into" castes that can't change, generation after generation. Youngest children of large families can move into new job descriptions over time, but any given multi-generational family will ALWAYS contain two subsistence farmers or two carpenters that work with hand tools in a furniture-factory age or something.
- Location
- USA
I like this option the best keep the focus on shipbuild time reductions
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Just to add something to the caste system, this also means that the Bajoran equivalent of the Industrial Revolution, while it probably took a lot longer to happen and moved more slowly, would have been their maximum time of social flexibility under the caste system, because of numerous large families with extra children surviving to adulthood who would be 'reallocable.'
Reallocation would serve as a form of safety valve, permitting the system to bend slightly under the pressures of outside realities, rather than breaking entirely. Most long term stable systems of oppression have this.
After the planetary population reached carrying capacity, this safety valve was largely shut off, and the Bajoran system would tend to become more 'locked in...' freezing them in a stasis comparable to, say, our late 20th and early 21st century, with a significant pseudo-Amish population still stuck living in rural areas as small farmers, while the rest of the population gradually develops technology up to the level of (extremely crude) warp drive ships.
Reallocation would serve as a form of safety valve, permitting the system to bend slightly under the pressures of outside realities, rather than breaking entirely. Most long term stable systems of oppression have this.
After the planetary population reached carrying capacity, this safety valve was largely shut off, and the Bajoran system would tend to become more 'locked in...' freezing them in a stasis comparable to, say, our late 20th and early 21st century, with a significant pseudo-Amish population still stuck living in rural areas as small farmers, while the rest of the population gradually develops technology up to the level of (extremely crude) warp drive ships.
- Location
- Patriarchova
Those traditional farmers and craftsmen wouldn't be able to compete with industrial production, though. The economy just wouldn't be able to support them.
Unless, of course, the priests foresaw this problem and cracked down on the emergent "capitalist" class before it could properly form, and then placed strict limits on the industrial production of goods that compete with the niche of the traditional craftsmen and farmers. Artificially propping up the pseudo-Amish and keeping society dependent on them.
Like I said. The Bajorans were in a very weird place.
- Location
- Australia
Vote closed.
And whee, statistically anomalous amount of Hard events. Well, you have ships back in sectors now, let's see how they cope.
And whee, statistically anomalous amount of Hard events. Well, you have ships back in sectors now, let's see how they cope.
I don't know whether to be gleeful or scared.
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 1978 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.2
Task: MRR
[X][MRR] Leave as Captain and appoint to shore billet
No. of Votes: 29
Derek58
AlphaDelta
anon_user
Artemis1992
Briefvoice
Chaos Blade
DarknessSmiles
Gingganz
Iron Wolf
JesseJ
Joshrand1982
Jrin
KnightDisciple
lbmaian
Leila Hann
McLuvin
Mr Tebbs
MS-21H 'Hawke'
Muer'ci
Nervos Belli
Night
pheonix89
Random Member
SynchronizedWritersBlock
tenchifew
tryrar
UbeOne
UberJJK
Void Stalker
AlphaDelta
anon_user
Artemis1992
Briefvoice
Chaos Blade
DarknessSmiles
Gingganz
Iron Wolf
JesseJ
Joshrand1982
Jrin
KnightDisciple
lbmaian
Leila Hann
McLuvin
Mr Tebbs
MS-21H 'Hawke'
Muer'ci
Nervos Belli
Night
pheonix89
Random Member
SynchronizedWritersBlock
tenchifew
tryrar
UbeOne
UberJJK
Void Stalker
No. of Votes: 5
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: NASH
[X][NASH] Assign to Sector Task Force <Gabriel Border Zone>
No. of Votes: 25
No. of Votes: 5
[X][NASH] Promote to Rear Admiral
No. of Votes: 3
[X][NASH] Demote to explorer captain. Assign Amby Enterprise when it launches.
No. of Votes: 1
[X][NASH] Assign to Sector Task Force: GBZ Task Force One
No. of Votes: 1
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: THUIR
[X][THUIR] Promote to Rear Admiral
No. of Votes: 21
No. of Votes: 6
[X][THUIR] Assign to Staff at Starfleet Command
No. of Votes: 3
[X][THUIR] Assign to Sector Task Force - Licori Border Zone
No. of Votes: 2
[X][THUIR] Assign to Staff at Starfleet Tactical
No. of Votes: 1
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: ROCK
[X][ROCK] Transfer to Ship Design Bureau
No. of Votes: 17
No. of Votes: 14
No. of Votes: 2
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: SAAVIK
[X][SAAVIK] Leave in Starfleet Tactical
No. of Votes: 19
No. of Votes: 11
[X][SAAVIK] Transfer to Starfleet Academy
No. of Votes: 2
Total No. of Voters: 35
Captain's Log - 2315.Q3.M1
- Location
- Australia
[X][MRR] Leave as Captain and appoint to shore billet
[X][NASH] Assign to Sector Task Force <Gabriel Border Zone>
[X][THUIR] Promote to Rear Admiral
[X][ROCK] Transfer to Ship Design Bureau
[X][SAAVIK] Leave in Starfleet Tactical
[X][NASH] Assign to Sector Task Force <Gabriel Border Zone>
[X][THUIR] Promote to Rear Admiral
[X][ROCK] Transfer to Ship Design Bureau
[X][SAAVIK] Leave in Starfleet Tactical
==================
Captain's Log, USS S'harien, Stardate 25889.3 - Captain T'Rinta
As a part of ongoing armistice talks, advanced research into next generation torpedo technology was handed over to Starfleet by House Tartresis. It was decided that this technology should be investigated, and that the S'harien should undertake some initial tests.
[Chief of Staff's NB: I would have phrased this as, 'Captain T'Rinta strongarmed the entire SDB and Explorer Corps into letting her try out the new tech'.]
-
Captain's Log, USS Winterwind, Stardate 25889.7 - Captain Abigail Taggart
There is a Caldonian minor colony world not far from the Mu Proxima system, rather distant to the rest of their colony worlds. It has a reputation for being what the Caldonians would consider, "rugged frontier types". Unfortunately, it seems that they have a bit of a bone to pick with the Directorate, who have asked us to rush over and help keep the peace.
-
Captain's Log, USS Voshov, Stardate 25890.2 - Captain Demora Sulu
After returning from our rendezvous with the citizens, we are swiftly into a mapping mission near Yrillian space. In addition to being a promising area of space, it helps establish a good cover story as to why we were in the area, should anyone grow suspicious.
-
Captain's Log, USS Bull, Stardate 25890.5
Seems that with the moratorium on new memberships over half-way through, there are some moves afoot to prepare for the potential rush at the end of it. The Ferasa Sector ships are headed out to Qloath and Seyek, ourselves to the former, Huascar to the latter. While there we will conduct talks on future interest in joining the Federation, future obstacles and stumbling blocks, and what the Federation has to offer.
-
Captain's Log, USS S'harien, Stardate 25891.2
The "quantum" torpedo is a ... inspired piece of engineering. I would have like to meet the Mentat whose work paved the way to these initial prototypes. Alas, they were killed in the Battle of Ixaria Approach, lost to the Enterprise's phasers. However, we have been given their research notes and papers, even if it is ... difficult to decipher some of the Mentat's enthusiasm.
I will be conducting a firing test on a lifeless rock-based planet shortly.
-
Captain's Log, USS Winterwind, Stardate 25891.5
There was a riot, and I have lost dozens of officers and crew who had been taking part in diplomacy and peacekeeping operations on the surface. It is another semi-cult that is promoting some alternative path of science from that of the Directorate. I'm disgusted with myself that I didn't see the growing signs. They were there, but with an actual war ending, I let my optimism blind me.
The Medonda has arrived with an escort, and immediately started T'Lorel-Pattern orbital suppression, eliminating the key communications hubs neatly. We are still assisting them in bringing the rioting under control as the Caldonian Prefects deploy to the surface. I remember when those Prefects used to walk the streets in simple tunics and barely a baton at their side. In a few short years, they have begun to deploy with short-barrel phaser-rifles and energy dampening plate. I worry for the Caldonian, whose colonies continue to be racked by these revolts.
[-10pp, -1 Enlisted casualties]
-
Captain's Log, USS Kearsage, Stardate 25891.8
Together with the Zephyr we have successfully kept secret and unobserved a meeting between the FDS aboard an Amarkian ship, and a group of Sydraxian dissidents. There was nearly an approach by an Yrillian cargo ship, but we were able to interdict them well short of sensor range.
[No Treaty of Celos problems]
-
Captain's Log, USS Bull, Stardate 25892.2
Our mission to Arqueniou is proceeding very promisingly. There is considerable interest among both the Senate and People of the Qloathi in the Federation. While our entry into a war was considered a cause for serious alarm, my crew and I were able to explain the reason and the conduct of the Federation successfully. The local ambassador is very encouraged.
[Gain +25 relations with Qloathi, +5pp, gain +0.1 O/yr recruiting]
-
Captain's Log, USS Huascar, Stardate 25892.5
I regret to report that our maiden foray into diplomacy was ... I don't want to say an unmitigated failure. We identified many potential obstacles that can be worked upon in the future to help pave the way for future integration. I have counselled a number of my crew, and sought feedback from the local diplomats to see what went wrong.
[Chief of Staff's NB: They may not want to say it, but it was an unmitigated disaster. FDS friendly political shows are asking for your head again.]
[-10pp, -10 relations with Seyek, Huascar gains permanent +1 P from learning experience]
-
Captain's Log, USS S'harien, Stardate 25892.8
There are some ... incidental problems yet to be worked out of the system. However, it was a fascianting scientific experiment. My science and engineering crews adapted to the unexpected collapse of the torpedo into a quantum filament as it reacted with our shielding in unanticipated ways. A significant part of the planet's surface was damaged by collision with the quantum filament, which required considerable effort to unknot from the local space-time topography.
[Gain +15rp, major bonus to future quantum torpedo research]
-
Captain's Log, USS Voshov, Stardate 25893.5
A series of unusual reptilian lifeforms occupied a very rich vein of coralinite, an important bonding agent in Tritanium-Duranium alloys. It took some very adept research from my biologists to determine what the impact on the local wildlife of pulling up this vein would be, and if it was safe to do so. In the end, we have been able to fill a number of cargo pods with the material, which is always one of the elements that Shipyard Ops clamours out for more of.
[Gain +35br]
-
- Location
- Central Standard Time
Thoughts on the Industry Park:
Right now, it does feel underpowered. A yearly monthly reduction falls under the resolution limit.
If it's >100pp, we should get some crunchy and flavorful benefits.
Thus, I like the idea of a permanent heavy industry team.
What if there was one vote with options every Chen-vote?
For example, a passive parallel reduction and serial reduction would be the default.
However, if we need new modules, or part kits for field repair, we could order the park to step down shipbuilding efforts and step up associated fabrication efforts.
Something like this:
Select a park focus for the year:
[][PARK] Additional Ship frame prefabrication (-X Q to all ship jobs in system, 12 M)
[][PARK] Ship module fabrication (6 M)
[][PARK] Ship field repair kit fabrication (3 M)
[][PARK] Colony part prefabrication (build time reduction, allows extra colony ship allocation, 3 M)
[][PARK] Outpost part prefabrication (build time reduction, allows extra engineering ship allocation, 3 M)
[][PARK] Station part prefabrication
[][PARK] Minefield prefabrication
[][PARK] System defense prefabrication
Basically, part prefabrication reduces build times and also allows for additional construction to take place.
Personally, I think a serial production bonus won't discourage construction of new classes.