Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
If we can make use of them for construction, which, given our recent struggles with crew as a limiting factor having shrunk the Rennie wave among other things, we know will not always be the case.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
If we can make use of them for construction, which, given our recent struggles with crew as a limiting factor having shrunk the Rennie wave among other things, we know will not always be the case.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
To be fair, accelerating production in existing berths doesn't necessarily work better in that kind of situation, because faster construction means crew and resources get used up faster. This is why Chen's bonus has 'created' a crew crunch for us.
Unless your repairs are three years long, it doesn't actually speed up repairs.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I can imagine circumstances where we're tracking ship repair and construction month-by-month, but given the headache such things give Oneiros when he tries, I have to admit you have a point.
We've been given the benefit of the doubt for the completion of repairs fast enough for the ships to be immediately used so far, even if technically they probably should be in the yard for the full final month.
But more to the point, the HI park only has an effect if the "construction" is 1 year or longer, so only the worst 1y repairs would even get a month if that month was tracked, which it typically isn't. 1 quarter? 3 quarters? 2 months? 10 months? All nothing.
But more to the point, the HI park only has an effect if the "construction" is 1 year or longer, so only the worst 1y repairs would even get a month if that month was tracked, which it typically isn't. 1 quarter? 3 quarters? 2 months? 10 months? All nothing.
Last edited:
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
I rather have faith that Onerios will notice that it's a silly option you're proposing, and we're already set up over on the SDB to count months rather than quarters.
- Location
- Patriarchova
There you go.
When that change was made, it was specifically noted that construction would still be tracked by quarter.
- Location
- United States
[X][MRR] Leave as Captain and appoint to shore billet
[X][NASH] Assign to Sector Task Force <Gabriel Border Zone>
[X][THUIR] Assign to Staff at Starfleet Command
[X][ROCK] Transfer to Ship Design Bureau
[X][SAAVIK] Leave in Starfleet Tactical
[X][NASH] Assign to Sector Task Force <Gabriel Border Zone>
[X][THUIR] Assign to Staff at Starfleet Command
[X][ROCK] Transfer to Ship Design Bureau
[X][SAAVIK] Leave in Starfleet Tactical
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
So the whole dealy with the heavy industrial park... I'm also not sure if it's worth the price of 115p.
There are some non-obvious benefits to it: I find it likely that we'll get a heavy industry team out of it in a state of emergency, or some other misc benefits similar to the critical infrastructure duplication stuff (some narrative, some things that could influence logistics, etc.).
On the build times: With 9 (+2 under construction) Starfleet berths and 2 (+2 under construction) UESPA berths in the Sol system, that's a max of 11 (+4) berth-months saved per year. That's about the equivalent of a single new berth, which costs about 10-20pp in Sol.
Now, it does reduce build latency, which a new berth doesn't do. But then that raises the question of how exactly monthly build time savings work.
Builds and fleet distributions are currently scheduled and planned at quarterly granularity. Changing that into monthly is going to be huge headache. If we compromise and say that planning still occurs at a quarterly granularity, and that months only matter during crises (or other times where monthly granularity makes a difference), then the benefits of single-month per quarter savings has starkly different benefits per ship class.
For example, assuming planning still occurs at quarterly granularity, all our current frigates take exactly 2 years to build and a 2 month saving would have no practical difference in conventional situations. Current 3 year cruisers and 4 year explorers would have a single quarter of build time savings.
We also don't know when exactly the monthly build savings kick in - is it at the start of each build year, or at the end? If it's the start, then that benefits repairs a lot. If not, then only 1+ year repairs can benefit.
Things are further thrown out of whack when you consider that the new ship design spreadsheet allows ship classes with monthly build granularity. So assuming the monthly build saving occurs at the end of each build year, a heavy industrial park would benefit a frigate with 2 2/12 year build time, but not a frigate with 2 3/12 year build time.
Well, regardless of the heavy industrial park, we do need clarification on whether planning is going to be moved to monthly granularity, or compromised to remain at quarterly granularity. And we need clarification on whether the heavy industrial park monthly saving occurs at the start of the build year (benefits repairs) or at the end. @OneirosTheWriter?
There are some non-obvious benefits to it: I find it likely that we'll get a heavy industry team out of it in a state of emergency, or some other misc benefits similar to the critical infrastructure duplication stuff (some narrative, some things that could influence logistics, etc.).
On the build times: With 9 (+2 under construction) Starfleet berths and 2 (+2 under construction) UESPA berths in the Sol system, that's a max of 11 (+4) berth-months saved per year. That's about the equivalent of a single new berth, which costs about 10-20pp in Sol.
Now, it does reduce build latency, which a new berth doesn't do. But then that raises the question of how exactly monthly build time savings work.
Builds and fleet distributions are currently scheduled and planned at quarterly granularity. Changing that into monthly is going to be huge headache. If we compromise and say that planning still occurs at a quarterly granularity, and that months only matter during crises (or other times where monthly granularity makes a difference), then the benefits of single-month per quarter savings has starkly different benefits per ship class.
For example, assuming planning still occurs at quarterly granularity, all our current frigates take exactly 2 years to build and a 2 month saving would have no practical difference in conventional situations. Current 3 year cruisers and 4 year explorers would have a single quarter of build time savings.
We also don't know when exactly the monthly build savings kick in - is it at the start of each build year, or at the end? If it's the start, then that benefits repairs a lot. If not, then only 1+ year repairs can benefit.
Things are further thrown out of whack when you consider that the new ship design spreadsheet allows ship classes with monthly build granularity. So assuming the monthly build saving occurs at the end of each build year, a heavy industrial park would benefit a frigate with 2 2/12 year build time, but not a frigate with 2 3/12 year build time.
Well, regardless of the heavy industrial park, we do need clarification on whether planning is going to be moved to monthly granularity, or compromised to remain at quarterly granularity. And we need clarification on whether the heavy industrial park monthly saving occurs at the start of the build year (benefits repairs) or at the end. @OneirosTheWriter?
- Location
- United States
anyone know off the top of their heads when the Stop on new full members getting added to the Federation were?
- Location
- Patriarchova
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
It was a five year hold starting in 2312 Q2. So it should expire 2317 Q2, about two years from now.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I suspect that the new members are going to be added gradually, just to keep things semi-orderly. Although I'm really not sure the Developmentalists thought things through, given the effects of the 'hold.' Not sure whether it'll pay off or not from their point of view.
Maybe she's flattered that we-all care so much.
I should do her epilogues and finish up the Dreams sequence some time.
Well, she may look mopey, but she must be happy about something- or her eyes wouldn't glow so much, without a ship to embody.
Maybe she's flattered that we-all care so much.
I should do her epilogues and finish up the Dreams sequence some time.
- Location
- Patriarchova
Of course, the way things are looking we might need another moratorium immediately after that.
Of course, the way things are looking we might need another moratorium immediately after that.
Infrastructure Ho!
Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
It may require moving the current excelsior builds that are currently ongoing to San Fransisco or some other yard but it's doable. Apparently.
- Location
- Patriarchova
Why is it preferable, though?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
We get an Ambassador-class Enterprise-C constructed at Utopia Planitia year(s) before it would otherwise be possible.
If you do not consider having the ship constructed there a benefit, then it would seem pointless, of course
If you do not consider having the ship constructed there a benefit, then it would seem pointless, of course
- Location
- Australia
I'll look over the heavy industrial park again. For 125pp or so, it was meant to have a pretty notable impact, but I didn't want it to be totally OP/cheesable. I did also intend that it would provide an industrial asset, but I need to reconsider how those are handled in future as well.
- Location
- Patriarchova
Well, does building it at UP offer any benefit over building it at 40EA?
Mostly keeping it in the same location as the designers. If the industrial park is workable, Sol is the only logical location to put one down for an additional boost
Plus we have some Humans First posters
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Good to hear.
A suggestion: for the 115+ pp expense of a heavy industrial park, it should have capabilities along the lines of what a heavy industry team in the Arcadian crisis could provide:
Maybe some additional vote each Shipyard Ops phase?
The "prepare components" stuff is non-applicable or behind-the-scenes (unless you want to keep track of such components). That does remind me: the ability to buy repair yard berths would be nice
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
It's one of the few places we could parallel-build it with Ambassador and also pretty much every Enterprise we know of has been built at UP. No reason to break tradition.