Funny old world - you guys have made something of a vindicated public hero out of President Arsharra N'Gir. She pushed the necessity of the war and everything pretty much went how she told the public it would. Things looking good for that second term.

Hopefully she can show Sousa some appreciation now. :)
 
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Funny old world - you guys have made something of a vindicated public hero out Arsharra N'Gir. She pushed the necessity of the war and everything pretty much went how she told the public it would. Things looking good for that second term.

Hopefully she can show Sousa some appreciation now. :)

Well, now its up to the FDS. If they don't do as good of a job, then her lack of planning will tell.
 
Funny old world - you guys have made something of a vindicated public hero out of President Arsharra N'Gir. She pushed the necessity of the war and everything pretty much went how she told the public it would. Things looking good for that second term.

Hopefully she can show Sousa some appreciation now. :)

What's the excuse for the loss of the Enterprise? If the Council flipped their shit at the near destruction of Courageous (twice!), then I can only imagine what they'll think of the loss of their miracle of miracles flagship!

Hopefully at least the key Councillors were briefed on the matter (though not necessarily up to class 1-AAA clearance) and the public informed that the Enterprise was lost while defeating an extremely critical mentat revenge threat.
 
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@anon_user you might want to correct some of the "fleet strength changes" section on your plan to match what you're actually doing. I'll list.

Fleet Strength Changes
Miranda-A (SF Berth 1) complete 2316.Q1
Miranda-A (SF Berth 2) complete 2316.Q1
Dryad (Miranda) goes into refit 2316.Q1
Lion (Miranda) goes into refit 2316.Q1
Renaissance (Renaissance) returns from repair 2316.Q1
Renaissance-class (UP Berth 1) complete 2316.Q3
Renaissance-class (UP Berth 2) complete 2316.Q3
Renaissance-class (UP Berth 3) complete 2316.Q3
Endurance (Excelsior-A) returns from repair/refit 2316.Q3
Sojourner (Excelsior-A) returns from repair/refit 2316.Q3
Docana (Constellation) begins refit (UP Berth 2) 2316.Q3
Challorn (Constellation) begins refit (UP Berth 3) 2316.Q3

Fleet changes is incorrect. You do not have the Dryad going into refit. Instead you have the Svai going into refit. Additionally, you do not have the Docana going into refit. Instead you're sending the Sappho into refit.
 
Funny old world - you guys have made something of a vindicated public hero out of President Arsharra N'Gir. She pushed the necessity of the war and everything pretty much went how she told the public it would. Things looking good for that second term.

Hopefully she can show Sousa some appreciation now. :)

Given that the President is elected by the Council rather than the popular vote, she probably has more riding on which parties win in elections over the next few years.
 
What's the excuse for the loss of the Enterprise? If the Council flipped their shit at the near destruction of Courageous (twice!), then I can imagine what they'll think of the loss of their miracle of miracles flagship!

Hopefully at least the key Councillors were briefed on the matter (though not necessarily up to class 1-AAA secrecy) and the public informed that the Enterprise was lost while defeating an extremely critical mentat revenge threat.

It's pretty embarrassing, but coming back on the Lion with not just the full crew of the Enterprise-B but also the NCC-134 helps dazzle the Council with bullshit.
 
@anon_user you might want to correct some of the "fleet strength changes" section on your plan to match what you're actually doing. I'll list.



Fleet changes is incorrect. You do not have the Dryad going into refit. Instead you have the Svai going into refit. Additionally, you do not have the Docana going into refit. Instead you're sending the Sappho into refit.
Thank you; fixed.
***
@OneirosTheWriter, what happens to the Daedalus-class Enterprise's surviving crew, now that they're in the 2310s, 133 years into their future? Do they rejoin Starfleet after some refresher training or something? If not... I wonder where they'd wind up.
[can we get a couple points of crew out of this?]
 
Funny old world - you guys have made something of a vindicated public hero out of President Arsharra N'Gir. She pushed the necessity of the war and everything pretty much went how she told the public it would. Things looking good for that second term.

Hopefully she can show Sousa some appreciation now. :)
Speaking of which:

[><] Sousa Deal: Approach the council with a camera and a rather entertaining scolding of the president.
 
Yeah, recovering the crew means a lot. The skill of our crews is probably our biggest edge over the Cardassians, and the reason why losses hurt us so much. So losing the ship is bad, but nowhere near as disastrous as it could have been.
 
Thank you; fixed.
***
@OneirosTheWriter, what happens to the Daedalus-class Enterprise's surviving crew, now that they're in the 2310s, 133 years into their future? Do they rejoin Starfleet after some refresher training or something? If not... I wonder where they'd wind up.
[can we get a couple points of crew out of this?]
They could work as temporal agents?
 
Captain T'Vin:

"Consultation of Starfleet records indicates that you are my grand-nephew."

Stol:

"Indeed so."

T'Vin:

"I find the prospect of great-aunt responsibilities... gratifying. The only logical course of action is to seek out facilities for the preparation of such items as the Earthlings call 'cookies.' "

Stol:

"Absent responsibilities as helmsman of the Enterprise, I find myself... insufficiently occupied. Might I request the opportunity to assist you?"
 
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Funny old world - you guys have made something of a vindicated public hero out of President Arsharra N'Gir. She pushed the necessity of the war and everything pretty much went how she told the public it would. Things looking good for that second term.

Hopefully she can show Sousa some appreciation now. :)

Well, it will be Sousa's job to make her career hell when she retires, since we don't play politics. Godspeed, Admiral o7
 
Comparing @anon_user 's plan to Briefvoice's...

Anon's plan puts a Centaur-A in place of a Constellation in Sol Sector, a Blooded Constellation in place of a Green one in Vulcan Sector (presumably due to a delay in refitting Docana), and no functional difference in Tellar and Andor sectors (still one ship each). Your plans are functionally identical for Amarkia Sector.

________________________

Hmm... thoughts.

Both of you have really lightweight forces on the Cardassian Border Zone and I am NOT happy with that; I'd honestly rather have at least one more ship (say, a Rennie) available on the CBZ even if it meant pulling them off the Gabriel Expanse. One Excelsior plus a science vessel is unlikely to cut it if something strange happens (say, a Goshawnar raid or another outbreak of crazy among the Seyek).

However, it's not a reason to vote for one plan as opposed to the other since you both did the same thing.

I have similar feelings about the Klingon and Romulan border zones; I'd rather have an extra ship (see below) on each of those borders. Remember that the Klingons and Romulans just went to war while we were off fighting the Licori. All our concerns about crazy crap happening on that border are now fully in play.

But, again, you both do the same thing so it's not a reason to prefer one of your plans above the other.

...

@Briefvoice, I like the part where one of the refitted Excelsiors goes to Rigel Sector rather than being added to the massive swarm of ships in the Gabriel Expanse. I feel like the extra stat boost is more likely to make a difference near Rigel (where we may get key events affecting our relations with the Yrillians and Honiani, among others), thna as just one more ship out of a big pile.

Anon_user puts a low-Presence stock Constellation on the Licori border and a Blooded Centaur in Apinae sector, whereas your plan puts the Blooded Centaur on the Licori border and a green Centaur in the Apinae sector. I... kind of think that you have the right of it there too.

On balance, I think I have a narrow preference for your plan, Briefvoice. But I'm unhappy with BOTH plans emphasizing a huge Combat 90-or-so fleet in the Gabriel Expanse, to the point of neglecting defenses on our other border zones.

As noted I'd be happier if, say, Challorn stayed on the KBZ or RBZ until her refit starts, Winterwind were dispatched to the KBZ/RBZ in the near future, with at least one cruiser being dropped on the Cardassian Border Zone until further notice and possibly another cruiser being sent to replace Challorn when she comes out of refit.

Note that I am not going to bother to specify which cruiser; either a ConnieBee or a Rennie would be perfectly satisfactory. Arguably a ConnieBee would be the better choice on the Romulan or Klingon borders; they have the same Science and Defense stats as a Rennie so they're just as capable of intercepting cloaked ships, and the ConnieBee's greatest disadvantages, lower durability and Presence, are less likely to matter.



I now feel hungry for cookies. :V
Stol has been flying the Enterprise-B since the 2290s, possibly literally ever since Demora Sulu climbed out of that chair. He just had his ship shot out from under him.

Stol is too stoic to admit it, but he needs all the cookies right now.
 
Comparing @anon_user 's plan to Briefvoice's...

Anon's plan puts a Centaur-A in place of a Constellation in Sol Sector, a Blooded Constellation in place of a Green one in Vulcan Sector (presumably due to a delay in refitting Docana), and no functional difference in Tellar and Andor sectors (still one ship each). Your plans are functionally identical for Amarkia Sector.

________________________

Hmm... thoughts.

Both of you have really lightweight forces on the Cardassian Border Zone and I am NOT happy with that; I'd honestly rather have at least one more ship (say, a Rennie) available on the CBZ even if it meant pulling them off the Gabriel Expanse. One Excelsior plus a science vessel is unlikely to cut it if something strange happens (say, a Goshawnar raid or another outbreak of crazy among the Seyek).

However, it's not a reason to vote for one plan as opposed to the other since you both did the same thing.

I have similar feelings about the Klingon and Romulan border zones; I'd rather have an extra ship (see below) on each of those borders. Remember that the Klingons and Romulans just went to war while we were off fighting the Licori. All our concerns about crazy crap happening on that border are now fully in play.

But, again, you both do the same thing so it's not a reason to prefer one of your plans above the other.

...

@Briefvoice, I like the part where one of the refitted Excelsiors goes to Rigel Sector rather than being added to the massive swarm of ships in the Gabriel Expanse. I feel like the extra stat boost is more likely to make a difference near Rigel (where we may get key events affecting our relations with the Yrillians and Honiani, among others), thna as just one more ship out of a big pile.

Anon_user puts a low-Presence stock Constellation on the Licori border and a Blooded Centaur in Apinae sector, whereas your plan puts the Blooded Centaur on the Licori border and a green Centaur in the Apinae sector. I... kind of think that you have the right of it there too.

On balance, I think I have a narrow preference for your plan, Briefvoice. But I'm unhappy with BOTH plans emphasizing a huge Combat 90-or-so fleet in the Gabriel Expanse, to the point of neglecting defenses on our other border zones.

As noted I'd be happier if, say, Challorn stayed on the KBZ or RBZ until her refit starts, Winterwind were dispatched to the KBZ/RBZ in the near future, with at least one cruiser being dropped on the Cardassian Border Zone until further notice and possibly another cruiser being sent to replace Challorn when she comes out of refit.

Note that I am not going to bother to specify which cruiser; either a ConnieBee or a Rennie would be perfectly satisfactory. Arguably a ConnieBee would be the better choice on the Romulan or Klingon borders; they have the same Science and Defense stats as a Rennie so they're just as capable of intercepting cloaked ships, and the ConnieBee's greatest disadvantages, lower durability and Presence, are less likely to matter.



Stol has been flying the Enterprise-B since the 2290s, possibly literally ever since Demora Sulu climbed out of that chair. He just had his ship shot out from under him.

Stol is too stoic to admit it, but he needs all the cookies right now.

It occurs to me that the Vulcans could completely dominate the upper ranks of Starfleet, had more of them the inclination.
 
Both of you have really lightweight forces on the Cardassian Border Zone and I am NOT happy with that; I'd honestly rather have at least one more ship (say, a Rennie) available on the CBZ even if it meant pulling them off the Gabriel Expanse. One Excelsior plus a science vessel is unlikely to cut it if something strange happens (say, a Goshawnar raid or another outbreak of crazy among the Seyek).

However, it's not a reason to vote for one plan as opposed to the other since you both did the same thing.

I have similar feelings about the Klingon and Romulan border zones; I'd rather have an extra ship (see below) on each of those borders. Remember that the Klingons and Romulans just went to war while we were off fighting the Licori. All our concerns about crazy crap happening on that border are now fully in play.

But, again, you both do the same thing so it's not a reason to prefer one of your plans above the other.

Whereas I think you are underestimating the odds of a Cardassian push in the Gabriel Border Zone, and over-valuing what an extra Constitution-B or frigate could do in the three other border zones you identify.

You say "on Excelsior plus a science vessel is unlikely to cut it", but an Excelsior is never reinforced for Events anyway, and the science vessel is super-good at making science checks (the most common type of Event resolution).
 
Funny old world - you guys have made something of a vindicated public hero out of President Arsharra N'Gir. She pushed the necessity of the war and everything pretty much went how she told the public it would. Things looking good for that second term.

Hopefully she can show Sousa some appreciation now. :)

Ugh, she basically asked us to do the impossible and our crews and commanders managed to do it. This is going to set unrealistic expectations in the future.
 
Both of you have really lightweight forces on the Cardassian Border Zone and I am NOT happy with that; I'd honestly rather have at least one more ship (say, a Rennie) available on the CBZ even if it meant pulling them off the Gabriel Expanse. One Excelsior plus a science vessel is unlikely to cut it if something strange happens (say, a Goshawnar raid or another outbreak of crazy among the Seyek).

However, it's not a reason to vote for one plan as opposed to the other since you both did the same thing.

I have similar feelings about the Klingon and Romulan border zones; I'd rather have an extra ship (see below) on each of those borders. Remember that the Klingons and Romulans just went to war while we were off fighting the Licori. All our concerns about crazy crap happening on that border are now fully in play.

But, again, you both do the same thing so it's not a reason to prefer one of your plans above the other.

The reason I didn't object to this is that I'm starting to think of ship deployment in terms of "theaters". Well not exactly that, now that we actually have explicit theaters. But more like, neighboring sectors that can pull forces together in the event of an incoming enemy fleet. The primary purpose of sectors is to react to events within the sector, rather than the actual defense of that sector versus major enemies.

My view on this will change as we research further into the Forward Defense doctrine tree, but as it stands from a defense standpoint, the border zones mostly act as buffer zones with the occasional critical strongholds (homeworlds and starbases).

The specifics of each border zone also differ greatly:

CBZ: We know the Cardassians are not raiding the CBZ anymore, and that a large-scale intrusion will be detected quickly enough to pool ships from surrounding sectors, including the huge mass of ships in the GBZ and Apinae+Amarki+Indoria+Ferasa home defense fleets.

RBZ and KBZ: We know that the Romulans and Klingons aren't going to invade us, and the main "threat" is preventing cloaked flanks navigating through our space. Listening/sensor outposts (that probably already exist, narratively at least) are probably more important here than ships.

SBZ: The situation with the Sydraxians is more complicated. It's still important enough to keep 2+ ships here, but with the Sydraxians having internal distractions and becoming more isolationist, and with the overall decline of raiding (both Sydraxians and Yrillian) recently, it's no longer as necessary to provide a very strong Excelsior-based garrison here.

LBZ: Well, this Licori "border zone" more akin to the Anti-Syndicate Task Force "sector" than an actual border zone, just with the event mechanics more unknown.


Honestly, the differences between the two plans are so minor than I don't care much which one wins. anon_user prioritizing the refit of Svai of Biophage fame at my request was what tipped me over :p
 
LBZ: Well, this Licori "border zone" more akin to the Anti-Syndicate Task Force "sector" than an actual border zone, just with the event mechanics more unknown.

Speaking of the LBZ...

@OneirosTheWriter:

1) What does the LBZ cover now? Is Gaeni still in Sol sector, or is it now considered part of the LBZ? Likewise with Betazed?

2) How much do the new outposts contribute to sector defense? Betazed's new starbase is already factored in the deployment plans as D5. But by Q3, we'll have the following outposts operational: Onos (Sol sector?), Clover (definitely LBZ), Kappa Tau (definitely LBZ). What does that translate into in terms of garrison requirements?
 
It occurs to me that the Vulcans could completely dominate the upper ranks of Starfleet, had more of them the inclination.
True. On the other hand, "Vulcans are superhuman in nearly all quantifiable respects but lack the spark/drive/ambition to use those abilities to set the tone of the Federation" is a recurring theme in Star Trek.

Whereas I think you are underestimating the odds of a Cardassian push in the Gabriel Border Zone, and over-valuing what an extra Constitution-B or frigate could do in the three other border zones you identify.
I am very far from sure that the ONLY thing which will happen on the RBZ and KBZ is the usual sort of randomly generated event. We may have to deal with (for example) Romulan or Klingon cloaked ships trying to infiltrate our space, and getting to do something like T'Mir's rolls for the infiltration of Betazed. Note that [i}T'Mir's[/i] success came in part from being able to slip between patrolling units. Thicker patrols make that kind of thing harder to do.

Another possible threat is, say, a rogue group of Klingon warships belonging to a Great House. Something weak enough that a Federation squadron could probably stop it, but a lone Federation ship might fail to do so.

As to the Cardassian border... The Cardassians didn't hit us while the vast majority of our navy was over on the other side of the quadrant. They might just happen to hit us in the next quarter or two before we have time to rush mass reinforcements over there. But if that's the prevailing concern, then our main priority is to be very cautious about moving ships OUT of the Gabriel Expanse in the next quarter or two. Not to build up and prepare for heavy fighting by making the fleet the Cardassians already weren't going to attack into an even bigger fleet.

You say "on Excelsior plus a science vessel is unlikely to cut it", but an Excelsior is never reinforced for Events anyway, and the science vessel is super-good at making science checks (the most common type of Event resolution).
On further reflection, because the science vessel in question is T'Mir, I withdraw this objection. I would still prefer to have three ships on the Cardassian Border Zone. This is not just because of reinforcement rolls, it's because a random accident could easily incapacitate one of our ships. We know multiple events in a quarter can happen, and given that our event probability in border zones is either increased or going to increase soon, that is even more likely on borders. Furthermore, if something totally unexpected happens with the Cardassians, it would be kind of nice to have, say, a squadron of four ships or so, something powerful enough to meaningfully reinforce the Indorians.

I grant that that may not be practical right now, but I think it's extremely unwise for us to treat the CBZ as a 'secure' border that we don't have to worry about garrisoning against enemy attacks, the way we regard the KBZ and RBZ.
 
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