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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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The Federation has a history of backing off when the locals say they don't want the Federation deciding their future and declaring their independence.

The Romulans... don't.

Furthermore, note where I talk about what *I* consider desirable...

I said:
Now see, we did in fact topple the old government, entirely by accident. The question is not whether or not a government gets replaced. It is who gets to replace it.

In my eye, the only really good options are "the Licori alone," or "a joint Licori/Romulan/Federation negotiated agreement." Having the Federation dominate the replacement process isn't good but at least it doesn't harm the Federation. But having the Romulans dominate the process is just terrible from the point of view of both us and the Licori, especially any Licori who didn't want to be a Romulan puppet state.
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Try flipping 'Federation' and 'Romulan' there. :p

I don't want the Licori to become OUR puppet. I just don't want them to become a Romulan puppet, either.

AKuz said:
I took the specific wording not to mean the intention of why to vote, but how it will be publicly framed.

The "theme" around which our diplomacy will be launched.

I suspect that we'll try to push back, but the vote is how publicly and loudly we're telling the Romulans to fuck off.

I don't want to back them into a position where we've locked them into an adversarial role instead of a cooperative one.
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I can understand that, but I'm nervous as heck about some of the stated reasons why people voted for this option in light of its specific wording.
 
I'm still waiting for our Marshall plan diplo bomb to drop "So, are the Romulans promising you ALL THE INDUSTRY?!?!?! Or just some third hand D7s?"[/diplpmacysmug]
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
Simon_Jester said:
I can understand that, but I'm nervous as heck about some of the stated reasons why people voted for this option in light of its specific wording.
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Honestly I don't have any issues with wording votes like this one so long as those wordings matter.

If Briefvoice was right and the votes were simply fluff for:
[] Maximum Resistance
[] Strong Resistance
[] Light Resistance
[] No Resistance​
then the way the vote was worded would be a very serious issue since it doesn't present itself like that at all.

I however am operating under the assumption that votes actually mean what they say they do. That the way the votes are worded reflects Sousa's opinion on the subject should that vote win. I have issues with the idea that Romulan interference should always be fought, that is how we end up with Cold War style proxy wars, or that just because thousands of federation citizens died in a war we started the Licori need to become an affiliate/ally. So I didn't vote for either option because those aren't views I want Sousa to hold.
 
Yeah, I really dont like the idea of the Federation feeling /entitled/ to another people's friendship.
 
UberJJK said:
I however am operating under the assumption that votes actually mean what they say they do. That the way the votes are worded reflects Sousa's opinion on the subject should that vote win. I have issues with the idea that Romulan interference should always be fought, that is how we end up with Cold War style proxy wars, or that just because thousands of federation citizens died in a war we started the Licori need to become an affiliate/ally. So I didn't vote for either option because those aren't views I want Sousa to hold.
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And I don't want Sousa to hold the view that opposing interference in another polity by a 3rd power somehow equals "colonizing".
 
Perhaps this kind of vote would have best been implemented as a write in one instead of multiple choice, to properly capture the nuance of what advice the players want to give the president.
At the moment we are split into two groups whom have different ideas ofwhat the options each side has chosen mean.

I think the desired outcomes of both factions in this vote us closer than what the very granular choice available allows.
 
Look, however the vote was intended, this is just advice to the President. She has ignored us in the past.
 
Hazard said:
The problem with the Romulans is that your options are 'proxy/intelligence wars' and 'total war.' Their culture and diplomatic stance do not permit other results except submission to the Romulan state.
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Theoretically "Peace and trade without conflicts" is possible as well. The problem is that the Romulans have to be really 1000% convinced of that; otherwise they think they can find some way to get a bit more out of the status quo. There's always another move to make, another card to play.
 
Good participation for the vote
Adhoc vote count started by Void Stalker on May 19, 2017 at 8:38 AM, finished with 192 posts and 71 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by Void Stalker on May 19, 2017 at 8:40 AM, finished with 192 posts and 71 votes.
  • [x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
    [x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
    [x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
    [x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
    [x][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
    [x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
    [x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
    [X][ROM] The Arcadians have the right to self-determination, we only demand they respect the safety of their neighbours
    [x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
    [X][PRIS] Release unilaterally (-15pp from disgruntled Federation members, greatly improve relations with Tartresis, improved relations with Licori)
    [x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
    [x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
    [x][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
    [x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
    [X][TALK] Shut down the broadcasts
    [X][PRIS] Release unilaterally (-15pp from disgruntled Federation members, greatly improve relations with Tartresis, improved relations with Licori)
    [x][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
    [X][TALK] Shut down the broadcasts
    [x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
    -[X] Except for any full-conversion Mentats, who will have to be carefully vetted before we release them.
    [x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
    [x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
    [x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
    [x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
    [x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
    [x][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
    [X][PRIS] Release unilaterally (-15pp from disgruntled Federation members, greatly improve relations with Tartresis, improved relations with Licori)
    [x][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
    [x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
    [x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
    [x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
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AKuz said:
I'm still waiting for our Marshall plan diplo bomb to drop "So, are the Romulans promising you ALL THE INDUSTRY?!?!?! Or just some third hand D7s?"[/diplpmacysmug]
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You may be waiting a long time. Take a look at the actual text of the winning 'deal' again. It's much more about economic aid for the Federation and its allies, with the Licori being a distant "will also need" after-thought.

Approach the development faction about putting together a general recovery program for the aftereffects of the Licori war. Some of our economies will suffer from war mobiliziation, our allies the Ked Paddah and Gaeni have suffered even more greatly economically, and the Licori themselves will need help on both economic and sophontarian grounds. Regardless of the details of the eventual peace deal we will need to be ready for action across the board.
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OneirosTheWriter said:
[ ][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
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So uh, it comes to mind that taking this means we're technically at -1 pp. That's right, negative one political will.

Q2 Snakepit: 185pp
Q2 Snakepit results: -176pp
Q2.M1 Captain's Logs: 10+5-10-10 = -5pp
Q2.M2 Arcadian Crisis: -5pp
Total: -1pp

Pretty sure such a small deficit won't result in a political backlash (at least not a significant one), but very worrying.

Also, +25 Ked Paddah now means they're at 107.

@OneirosTheWriter, as long as Ked Paddah relations remain 100+ by EOY, are they considered as affiliates now for EOY income?
 
AKuz said:
Theoretically "Peace and trade without conflicts" is possible as well. The problem is that the Romulans have to be really 1000% convinced of that; otherwise they think they can find some way to get a bit more out of the status quo. There's always another move to make, another card to play.
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No.

The Romulans would have to be convinced that peace and trade without conflict is their best possible option and that not playing another card or making another move to try and shift things around in their favour is the better option because it'd inevitably give a poorer result.

And you'll never convince them of that. It's culturally impossible to accept as a notion.
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
Okay, I'm in way too much pain to make a Captain's Log post that isn't going to suck. Here's hoping for tomorrow being better. The dentist tells me that the second day is the roughest, so hopefully it's all plain sailing from here.
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Second day is always the roughest after procedure. You're in shock and still anesthesized the first day. Second day you actually wake up, inflammation is the worst, people expect they'll be better by now, etc etc. After this, you'll be good (or, well, better)
 
Void Stalker said:
Good participation for the vote
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For me it was a combination of good timing on when I saw the vote open and the options, having a few specific options, the options being clearly understandable, and not having to do spreadsheets to figure out the nuances.
EDIT: Also I felt like I could see and understand the impact of the choices. They each felt meaningful.
 
KnightDisciple said:
For me it was a combination of good timing on when I saw the vote open and the options, having a few specific options, the options being clearly understandable, and not having to do spreadsheets to figure out the nuances.
EDIT: Also I felt like I could see and understand the impact of the choices. They each felt meaningful.
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Was aiming for that, glad to see I got closer to the mark this time :D
 
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