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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Glassware said:
As far as the Sousa deal goes, I'd be thrilled if she were to put her wheeling and dealing skills to use to try to get broad political support for as many member world starbases as possible, putting Councillors from worlds that need one in contact so they can push for them together and individually, it'd be useful from a standpoint of further hardening our sectors against attack, opening new command positions for officers, et cetera. Indoria for example still lacks a major starbase.
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Indoria is currently the only homeworld without a Starbase. Plus we're starting to realize that Starbases are a major drain on our logistics. While we definitely should get a Starbase for Indoria this year, I don't think we need to go further.
 
Briefvoice said:
Indeed. Can they keep up that pace, or is it a stockpile from the years we weren't building auxiliary ships?
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Does it matter? We need new hospital ships ASAP, for example, but as it stands it'll be a decade or more before we get them all into service. The Council gives us projects, they've got to pony up the resources to complete them.
 
Night said:
Does it matter? We need new hospital ships ASAP, for example, but as it stands it'll be a decade or more before we get them all into service. The Council gives us projects, they've got to pony up the resources to complete them.
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The Council hasn't set us any timetable. So there's no reason to think they're going to hand us a blank check to get it done as quickly as possible.
 
Night said:
Does it matter? We need new hospital ships ASAP, for example, but as it stands it'll be a decade or more before we get them all into service. The Council gives us projects, they've got to pony up the resources to complete them.
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It matters if we force through a bunch of auxiliary berths nobody asked for and then they sit empty because Auxiliary Command isn't building anything in them. I note that all of the perception this is a problem comes from complaints Starfleet doesn't have enough auxiliary ships, but we never get any complaints Starfleet doesn't have enough auxiliary berths.

Nervos Belli said:
So, the Snakepit should be coming up sometime soon, maybe this week depending on how long the battle for Gammon takes. Do we have any thoughts on what we want to do for our deal this year?
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This is what I had come up with:

[ ][FACTION] Approach the Developers - Crew recruitment and training is an issue not just for Starfleet, but for all Member World fleets. Propose founding a joint Federation Space Academy based on input from Starfleet and all Member World fleet organizations with the goal of unifying starship crew training standards across the Federation, allowing Starfleet Academy and similar member world institutions to focus solely on service-specific training. (Desired mechanical effect- Improve Crew income, especially officers.)
 
Actually, here is what I was thinking for the Snakepit, based on 185 political will available,
  • Request Mining Colony at Piara V, 25br/yr base, 8pp, 4 turns
  • Request Mining Colony at Kappa Tau, 8pp, 15 (20) br/yr, 4 turns
  • Request Mining Colony at Cronulla VI - 5rp/yr (base), 8pp, 4 turns
  • Request development of Utopia Planitia, 28pp, (4 turns, gain 1 3mt, 1 1mt berth)
  • Request new Starbase I [Indoria - Apinae Sector] 15pp + 12pp = 27pp
  • Request Academy Development, 40pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
  • Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau (Sensors and Weapons), 20pp
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species (Yrillians), 20pp
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species (Ashidi), 20pp
That's 179. The Ashidi are the species we encountered being pressured by the Konen, if you recall.
 
Briefvoice said:
Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species (Yrillians), 20pp
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Given the total lack of results we've gotten from our Yrillian endeavors so far, I really can't support further pushes on them-I just don't think that they're accomplishing anything and the political will is better spent on another species, such as the Honiani to push them to major affiliate, or the Laio, Obar, or Ked Paddah in order to affiliate them.

EDIT: On the bright side, don't we get one free diplomatic push at random this year?
 
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Void Stalker said:
Honestly I hope the special stations are unique or hard to reproduce. Otherwise any system combat is going to be a drag.

I think mines and stations already provide sufficient system defense as it is
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Isn't that the point of fortifications, to make any assault on them such a painful cost for resources that the only option they have is to place the fortress under siege?
 
Regarding logistics, there's still too much uncertainty about it.

I have no doubt that member worlds are disgruntled, and the Amarkians have got to be chafing a bit when we told them to focus on shipping again instead of Riala-A.

But this is a case where Oneiros will need to step in and put some hard numbers in, penalties or quotas or whatever, before we can be confident of any action we take regarding the auxiliary ship situation. I say this, because although Starfleet itself is extremely stretched in auxiliary ships, the vast majority of member fleets have a lot of auxiliary slack.

edit: And I'm saying this as one of the players that has most deeply delved into the logistical details in this game.

Nervos Belli said:
Indoria is currently the only homeworld without a Starbase. Plus we're starting to realize that Starbases are a major drain on our logistics. While we definitely should get a Starbase for Indoria this year, I don't think we need to go further.
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Correction: Remote Starbases like Lapycorias are a drain on logistics. Local Starbases don't require any warp-capable logistics support, and are probably implicitly supplied by the swarm of civilian ships in major world(s) in the local system.

As I've said before, it's hard to read much into the pp costs of starbases - we don't know how much of it is due to construction costs, support/logistic costs, or politics (the latter can easily explain the increasing cost of starbases in the same sector - member world(s) in a sector will raise a stink if they see another sector get more starbases while they're themselves "neglected").

Glassware said:
Given the total lack of results we've gotten from our Yrillian endeavors so far, I really can't support further pushes on them-I just don't think that they're accomplishing anything and the political will is better spent on another species, such as the Honiani to push them to major affiliate, or the Laio, Obar, or Ked Paddah in order to affiliate them.
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That's not quite fair. For all we know, it's because of our diplomacy with the Yrillians that we have received this opportunity at Sydraxian reconciliation. If it turns out that our overtures to the Yrillians was critical to that, we should consider doubling down on it. And we still haven't reached the nominal 300pt threshold.
 
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Glassware said:
Given the total lack of results we've gotten from our Yrillian endeavors so far, I really can't support further pushes on them-I just don't think that they're accomplishing anything and the political will is better spent on another species, such as the Honiani to push them to major affiliate, or the Laio, Obar, or Ked Paddah in order to affiliate them.

EDIT: On the bright side, don't we get one free diplomatic push at random this year?
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Agreed. We'll need to either sort out the internal blocking (Call it the 'Fear of the Death of Freedom' where a strong local faction is worried that the Federation will clip their wings from freelance piracy er, work.) or the external issues with Cardassian, and I'd bet Sydraxian, ties.
 
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Glassware said:
A Gretarian push may be suboptimal at this time. Remember what happened when we tried to push Bajor while the Cardassians were distracted. I think we can win the Gretarians their freedom by appealing to the new Sydraxian government...
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We don't know there is, or will be, a new Sydraxi government.
 
Glassware said:
And I think that your proposal squanders this opportunity to use the Sydraxians to shatter the Ashalla Pact as a whole instead of further turning them against us.
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We wasted the opportunity of Ghosts and Whispers by waiting a full year before using it. We would be making an identical mistake again if we did not take advantage now.

In addition, the Sydraxian weakness is not merely political - they simply don't have ships with which to take significant action.
 
I'm pretty sure the Sydraxians are no longer covered by the Treaty of Celos. Would a diplopush on them represent supporting the rise of a friendly regime?

If so, we need to push the Sydraxians.
 
Leila Hann said:
I know. I don't care. We follow the letter of the law, not the self-serving Cardassian interpretation of its spirit. Otherwise there's no point in us having signed it.
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Is the goal to accomplish your objectives or to be right? There's a balance here between sticking to your deontology and actually accomplishing your goals.
 
Briefvoice said:
Actually, here is what I was thinking for the Snakepit, based on 185 political will available,
  • Request Mining Colony at Piara V, 25br/yr base, 8pp, 4 turns
  • Request Mining Colony at Kappa Tau, 8pp, 15 (20) br/yr, 4 turns
  • Request Mining Colony at Cronulla VI - 5rp/yr (base), 8pp, 4 turns
  • Request development of Utopia Planitia, 28pp, (4 turns, gain 1 3mt, 1 1mt berth)
  • Request new Starbase I [Indoria - Apinae Sector] 15pp + 12pp = 27pp
  • Request Academy Development, 40pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
  • Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau (Sensors and Weapons), 20pp
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species (Yrillians), 20pp
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species (Ashidi), 20pp
That's 179. The Ashidi are the species we encountered being pressured by the Konen, if you recall.
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Kappa Tau is by the Licori and as a BR colony I feel we can hold off. Also instead of Yrillian I would prefer Obar (race we meet through Honiani), Honiani (who can hit 300 with a diplo push for extra income), or Laio who are at 86 and can affiliate with a push, plus we have the random roll for one of the non affiliates which could change things (moving Ked Peddah or Obar into affiliate range). Also would we use the added berths next year or are they for repairs?

Glassware said:
Given the total lack of results we've gotten from our Yrillian endeavors so far, I really can't support further pushes on them-I just don't think that they're accomplishing anything and the political will is better spent on another species, such as the Honiani to push them to major affiliate, or the Laio, Obar, or Ked Paddah in order to affiliate them.

EDIT: On the bright side, don't we get one free diplomatic push at random this year?
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We get one annual roll on a random non affiliate with positive relations. I assume that Cardassian clients are excluded from that so:
Yrillians 254/100 - Affiliate Membership Internally + Externally Obstructed, but lines of dialogue opened. Strong pro-Cardassian influences
Gretarians 75/100 - Known to be under the thumb of Sydraxians
Laio 86/100
Obar 65/100
Ashidi 50/100
Ked Paddah 35/100

Sotaw and Ittick-ka should be removed due to issues with contacting (neutral zone, and no response)
Licori we are at war with, the others fall under Cardassian clients.
 
Leila Hann said:
I know. I don't care. We follow the letter of the law, not the self-serving Cardassian interpretation of its spirit. Otherwise there's no point in us having signed it.
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Well as always with the Cardassians, we should consider if we have the punch to back up our interpretation. We probably could use the GBZ fleet to deter Cardassian support, but do we have the ships to support a new government if we have to move in in force? Possibly, given that the major offensive phase of the Licori war is likely to end soon.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
We wasted the opportunity of Ghosts and Whispers by waiting a full year before using it. We would be making an identical mistake again if we did not take advantage now.

In addition, the Sydraxian weakness is not merely political - they simply don't have ships with which to take significant action.
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Neither do we at the moment, they are tied up in the Licori crisis or the GBZ. Last thing we want is to push the Cardassians into a major action right now. Basically if the Sydraxians push back and the Cardassians move to aid them do we have the forces free to counter move or will this require us to back down?

Leila Hann said:
I know. I don't care. We follow the letter of the law, not the self-serving Cardassian interpretation of its spirit. Otherwise there's no point in us having signed it.
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For me it is the fact that a lot of our assets are tied up in the Licori crisis that I think we should avoid rocking the boat. Just wait a bit until we can draw down our deployments to the Licori crisis so we can use them as a deterrent if need be, or at least have reserves available (and our best EC ships) if they try to push things. Remember for Celos we had options to use our Explorers to find info to push things to our advantage, our best explorers though are in the Licori crisis or in dock for repair.
 
Vebyast said:
Is the goal to accomplish your objectives or to be right? There's a balance here between sticking to your deontology and actually accomplishing your goals.
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First of all, having the Sydraxians on our flank is one of the main things that made us fear a war with Cardassia to begin with.

Second...how should I put this? "If any government ever affiliates with us, then we own the souls of that entire species for all eternity" is both an unreasonable interpretation of what the treaty actually says, and ignores how international law typically works with regard to polities who undergo a regime change.

It would be like us declaring the Lecarre to be in violation of the treaty for having replaced that diplomat of ours before the treaty was signed. We sucked that up, because the terms of the treaty were clear. Now the cardassians can damned well do the same.
 
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