Well in that case, it's more like how much damn industry does humanity have, because they're still the biggest contributor to Starfleet out of literally everyone in our Federation. They give double our new members and about 150% of our other old members.

Hmm... I never noticed, but the front page member Starfleet contribution numbers for the first 5 members have changed since ... around late 2310 back when we had a 45br 30sr budget increase. I've been been using the numbers established in 2306.Q2, which I believe still tracked the 100br 60sr budget increases separately then.

The differences between the known 2306.Q2 and 2310.Q2(?) member Starfleet contributions amount to ... 155br 85sr 90sr, which is really close to our total 145br 90sr budget increases. So yeah, ignoring the small discrepancy, I think the budget increases we've had have since been allocated among our member Starfleet contributions.

edit: Fixing this inconsistency going forward by assuming that budget increase was 45br 30sr from 2310 to 2314, and is now increased to 55br 30sr for 2315 EOY onwards. Updated my audit spreadsheet.
 
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Hmm... I never noticed, but the front page member Starfleet contribution numbers for the first 5 members have changed since ... around late 2310 back when we had a 45br 30sr budget increase. I've been been using the numbers established in 2306.Q2, which I believe still tracked the 100br 60sr budget increases separately then.

The differences between the known 2306.Q2 and 2310.Q2(?) member Starfleet contributions amount to ... 155br 85sr, which is really close to our total 145br 90sr budget increases. So yeah, ignoring the small discrepancy, I think the budget increases we've had have since been allocated among our member Starfleet contributions.
Done for logistics tracking purposes to avoid having resources pop out of the bright blue sky.
 
You are confusing stability, reactivity and hazard.

Antimatter is completely stable, it just reacts with ordinary matter on contact. Red matter appears to be semi-stable but can form gravitational implosions that generate black holes. Omega particles are unstable and do very bad things when they are invariabley subject to conditions that destabilise them. Polaric energy is apparently stable, it just destroys organic life exposed to it.
 
So I spent this weekend reading from start to current updates.

At this point I have a series of questions that have likely already been asked that I am hoping someone can answer for me. I apologise for the length

Ships

- Is there a custom craft/shuttle builder?
- Are there plans for capital ships (other then from non-federation factions)?
- While there are defined ship roles for Starfleet. What about other UFP needs? who is responsible for other needs such as logistics (freight/colony), intelligence (cloaked shuttles / cloaked listening probes etc) and Diplomatic shuttles?
- What are freight ships, if not cargo?
- Is there background on why Capital carrier with small craft is not an option? even if it was not focused on combat.

Vulcan emergency response

- Is there a plan for punitive action against their non-response to the Councils emergency declaration? e.g (5 year moratorium on new colonies, or 50% Starfleet defence assets , etc)

Emergency mobilisation

- Is it possible to direct increased mobilisation towards members who are not at limited mobilisation (and bring others down?)

Council options

Is there a mechanism for creating new council options?

Some years the options appear generated from comments and others its very generic.

Off the top of my head, somethings I would love to see costed into PP would be.

- New Capital shipyard - 4mt Berth (as Ambassadors and Excelsior's are classified as cruisers?)

Approach the Mercantilists about the following
- BR/SR trading desk - allow members and Starfleet to trade stockpiles to meet their preferred ratio (2:1 in most cases)
- Build federation trading posts/ starbase outside territory to increase non-federation contact and increase diplomacy rolls.
- Create a UFP logistics corps to support starfleet actions, this corps would build civilian ships in member and starfleet shipyards when they are otherwise not in use, these assets would also be available to members when not assigned.

Approach the pacifists with the following
- Build a capital ship for specialising in large scale relief efforts and diplomacy for use in uplifting new affiliates and/or recovering from large scale disasters.
- Request help with new Science frigate design
- Set corewards direction for expansion for X years, away from known empires / hotspots.
- Plan to set a min science req for all member fleets.

Approach the Hawks with the following
- Plan to upgrade member shipyards to federation standard (3/2/1mt) (in X years), in return said yards are available without complaint for repairs during declared emergencies
- Plan to contribute towards refits of member fleets and decommissioning old classes in return for decreased member sector D reqs.
- Plan to set a min C/D req for all member fleets

Approach the expansionists with
- Focus on mapping new garden worlds as colony sites.
- Options for Colony starbases

Approach Developers
- Plan to create 1x 3mt + 3x 1mt shipyards + 1 starbase in all member sectors (by X date) in return for decreased defence requirements.
- Plan to create local starfleet academies in member capitals to increase recruitment.

Starfleet Intelligence
- Is there a generic intelligence on the GDP of Empires

Basically the roundup of BR/SR/Research for UFP, Romulans, Klingons and Cardasians, with a degree of accuracy depending on intelligence level for that empire.


Obviously these are not necessarily a good idea, but it would offer different directions, st the moment the snakepits feel a little stale? generic perhaps.
 
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- Is there a custom craft/shuttle builder?
- Are there plans for capital ships (other then from non-federation factions)?

Yes. https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/starfleet-ship-design-bureau-to-boldly-go.33039/

Unsure what you mean by this. We're in the process of designing the Ambassador.

New Capital shipyard - 4mt Berth (as Ambassadors and Excelsior's are classified as cruisers?)

- Create a UFP logistics corps to support starfleet actions, this corps would build civilian ships in member and starfleet shipyards when they are otherwise not in use, these assets would also be available to members when not assigned.

Approach the pacifists with the following
- Build a capital ship for specialising in large scale relief efforts and diplomacy for use in uplifting new affiliates and/or recovering from large scale disasters..

We need to do research to be able to build 4mt berths, and there's no reason to build the Amby that large at the moment. Amby and Excelsior are still Capitals, they're bigger than any other known ship right now except the Honiani capship.

There's already SF logistics. We have been trying to build auxiliary designs.

We have a hospital ship in prototyping that will accomplish that.

The rest of your ideas are more like Sousa deals.
 
Easier responses:
Is there a custom craft/shuttle builder?
Yes to starships, no to shuttles. See this thread. You'll need to privately message the QM to get the link to the sheet, though.
Is it possible to direct increased mobilisation towards members who are not at limited mobilisation (and bring others down?)
As the tag says, this is not an empire quest. We have limited influence over the member worlds. Even in SoE, it's mostly over their military forces.
Ambassadors and Excelsiors are classified as cruisers?
They're classified as heavy cruisers as a synonym to capital ships, but their role is explorer. Mostly, I think, the Federation doesn't like to use the term 'capital' in reference to their own ships. There was a long debate on this at one point.

Many of the things you mention about wanting to see would likely be something that it would be possible to approach the council with as a deal (see: aid convoy to Orion Union, failed attempt with the Yrillian shipping). You'll have to convince other people to vote for it though!

Edit: Oops, didn't see previous reply.
 
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Ships-
Starship designs are developed in the ship design thread.
There is no smallcraft builder at the moment and shuttles ect. don't currently have discreate stats

What do you mean by capital ships? If you mean new large ships, then we are currently in the design stage of our next generation (~3 megaton) explorer design and will be beginning to build the prototype soon.

We don't need to design smallcraft and auxiliary designs are basicly standardised. The member worlds are responsible for their own logistics and we only have to look after our own, an auxiliary shipyard is currently under construction for our need for additional support ships.

Frieghters and Cargo ships handle different sorts of cargo, we have both bulk cargo (bc) and small cargo (sc).

Smallcraft carriers aren't really viable, to actually fight at ship levels you need something with at least the capabilities of a frigate. Though Mothership and light attack frigate groups do work and are used by the Apiata and Caitians.

Vulcans- There is likely not going to be any consequences from us towards the Vulcans as the thread ended up going along with their political maneuvers, instead of eating the political cost.

Mobilisation - We can probably do that with internal diplomacy teams, however it is unlikely we will need to increase mobilisation levels this SoE as we already have a massive material advantage over the Licori.

Council options - If you have ideas for council options direct them to @OneirosTheWriter , he will include any options he thinks are reasonable and have support in the thread.
 
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Some random thoughts.

The Gaeni have reduced reliability on their ships from their difference in opinion on acceptable risk to most of the galaxy, and we consider them to be a 'mad scientist'.
The Gaeni consider the Licori to be 'mad scientist' - do the Licori ships have lower reliability? If they do, can we exploit that somehow?

The current combat engine, assuming similar combat scores, strongly favors the side with more hulls. Assuming this goes forward, just what kind of stats will a Borg Cube need to have to be able to replicate Wolf 359?
 
The current combat engine, assuming similar combat scores, strongly favors the side with more hulls. Assuming this goes forward, just what kind of stats will a Borg Cube need to have to be able to replicate Wolf 359?

Probably special rules for it. Adaptation mechanic, so it gets a saving throw to avoid a hit. Immunity to burn-through. Hull Regen and faster shield Regen. Iirc cubes are decentralized so minimal Combat loss from Hull damage maybe. It may be big enough it gets multiple attacks. Etc.

It will likely have 3-digit stats anyway.
 
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Turn 159 - Ship CDF Naldar is firing upon Ship Triada
Damage roll - Hitpower 2.10 vs Shields 25.13
Ship Triada Shields reduced to 23.03
Damage has penetrated Shields, residual power 0.89
Ship Triada reduced to 9.11 Hp by burn-through
Turn 159 - Ship Triada destroyed by secondary damage causing a warp core breach.
Turn 159 - Ship Triada destroyed by secondary damage causing a warp core breach.
The Triada has been disabled.
Fleet Apiata Fleet is now in retreat due to Hull Loss!

Example ^

Edit: The Triada was damned unlucky though. That took a statistically fascinating set of rolling.
 
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What do you mean by capital ships? If you mean new large ships, then we are currently in the design stage of our next generation (~3 megaton) explorer design and will be beginning to build the prototype soon.

an auxiliary shipyard is currently under construction for our need for additional support ships.


Vulcans- There is likely not going to be any consequences from us towards the Vulcans as the thread ended up going along with their political maneuvers, instead of eating the political cost.

Thanks for all the responses to my questions.

Capital class
Ok so the Ambassador is a capital class (At 3+mt), its just repeatedly mislabelled as a cruiser, very confusing. Especially after the vote on clarifying class names.

Auxiliaries
So what is the difference between a member shipyard, a Starfleet shipyard and a Auxiliary shipyard?
Isn't a Aux-Shipyard just a Starfleet berth that is not in use?

Vulcan
Its hard to see how the UFP can function at all if any member state can unilaterally disregard council decisions with no repercussions.
 
So I spent this weekend reading from start to current updates.

At this point I have a series of questions that have likely already been asked that I am hoping someone can answer for me. I apologise for the length

Ships

- Is there a custom craft/shuttle builder?
- Are there plans for capital ships (other then from non-federation factions)?
- While there are defined ship roles for Starfleet. What about other UFP needs? who is responsible for other needs such as logistics (freight/colony), intelligence (cloaked shuttles / cloaked listening probes etc) and Diplomatic shuttles?
- What are freight ships, if not cargo?
- Is there background on why Capital carrier with small craft is not an option? even if it was not focused on combat.

Runabouts & shuttles already exist as part of base and ship complements, and are primarily for recon or ground support, but they are abstracted away for the most part, except in SoE for explicit recon actions. Smallcraft designed for combat aren't viable (yet - we'll see once we get to 2360s or so when Akiras start getting designed).

Logistics, intelligence, etc. exist as auxiliary ships. They are described in the GBZ status post, and their cargo capacities for small and bulk cargo and "special" rating for the specific activity they're optimized for (e.g. engineering ships have SpcE for building speed) can be deduced from recent MWCO reports. There's an overview of logistics capacity and networks for Starfleet and most members in a recent post.

"Capital ship" is a weight class, but the brackets for that weight class change over time (remember, the 1mt Constitution used to be considered an capital ship/explorer). Furthermore, Starfleet currently (and for the foreseeable future) only has one role for such capital-weight ships, and that is the "explorer". Hence, explorer being an extremely common synonym for the capital ship. You'll still see references to other nations capital-weight ships as things other than "explorers" though, like the Riala or Lorgot battlecruisers.

Cloaking tech is forbidden tech. Non-negotiable with the Council.

Vulcan emergency response

- Is there a plan for punitive action against their non-response to the Councils emergency declaration? e.g (5 year moratorium on new colonies, or 50% Starfleet defence assets , etc)

We don't play the Federation Council. We play Starfleet. With a SoE, Starfleet may have the power to force member fleet ships to participate, but that costs war support, and if war support drops enough, bad things happen ™.

edit: There's probably a lot of resentment at the Pacifist party in the Council, but at the same time, there's a lot of popular support for the Pacifists. It's politics, what-do.


Some of the things proposed here either aren't relevant or just political non-starters. The way the Federation expands is primarily via diplomatic pushes, which the expansionists like but the development faction make them politically costly. We can already request to build new ship classes, but ship designing is a long and expensive (in rp) process, and the pp cost to obtain permission to start depends on the need for the ship class (which depends on which party is in power, current events, and the defined tactical roles).

We can already spend pp to do many of the other options you propose, and spending a unique Sousa deal on things that can be bought with pp is considered wasteful (unless it's important enough and would save us a shitload of pp).

Member fleet shipyards already do repair our ships if Starfleet ones are unavailable, and in some cases we can even expend pp to bump existing builds out to repair our own ships. You can't tell member fleets to "not complain" if they don't like something, and the Council is not going to give Starfleet the powers to demand such.

The defense garrison requirements actually aren't something we want to avoid - we WANT to keep multiple ships in sectors, because sector events are significant sources of income. It's just that we have significant growing pains with the expanding Federation and the increasing amount of fires to put out.

Setting member fleet requirements is also going to be a political mess, and in gameplay mechanics, a micromanagement mess. There's been discussion before about subsidizing member fleets to meet some minimum bar - that's definitely going to require Council action, and I don't know if it'll be popular with all the larger members. That said, it has the potential to be a Sousa deal.

BR/SR trading desk is a good idea, and could be used in an indirect way to subsidize the weaker member fleets, while at the same time helping balance our own income. There's evidence that member fleets already trade resources with each other (Tellar and Vulcan apparently traded 25br and 25sr with each other, so that they each could build more Renaissances).

GDP/economic strength intel report options aren't a bad idea, although they can be somewhat inferred from the existing shipyard, shipbuilding, and fleet strength reports.
 
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Turn 159 - Ship CDF Naldar is firing upon Ship Triada
Damage roll - Hitpower 2.10 vs Shields 25.13
Ship Triada Shields reduced to 23.03
Damage has penetrated Shields, residual power 0.89
Ship Triada reduced to 9.11 Hp by burn-through
Turn 159 - Ship Triada destroyed by secondary damage causing a warp core breach.
Turn 159 - Ship Triada destroyed by secondary damage causing a warp core breach.
The Triada has been disabled.
Fleet Apiata Fleet is now in retreat due to Hull Loss!

Example ^

Edit: The Triada was damned unlucky though. That took a statistically fascinating set of rolling.

Ooh partial shield burn-through. Realistic (or rather, closer to canon), although there was earlier concern about this being susceptible to the law of averages problem. The other mitigations (larger damage variance, critical hits, limited battle size engagements) hopefully are enough. Also, if shield burn-through doesn't scale with shield integrity, I'm still worried about the viability of Apiata Stingers.

That's one hell of a "critical hit". I hope that the chance for warp core breach or other critical subsystem damage depends on the hull integrity - I'd hate for our Excelsiors to get fluked by a critical hit when it was at 100% HP.

Is there some significance to the duplicate warp core breach line?
 
I'm going to put up some war games between the task forces to give things a good test, since those are relatively evenly balanced.

Ooh partial shield burn-through. Realistic (or rather, closer to canon), although there was earlier concern about this being susceptible to the law of averages problem. The other mitigations (larger damage variance, critical hits, limited battle size engagements) hopefully are enough. Also, if shield burn-through doesn't scale with shield integrity, I'm still worried about the viability of Apiata Stingers.

That's one hell of a "critical hit". I hope that the chance for warp core breach or other critical subsystem damage depends on the hull integrity - I'd hate for our Excelsiors to get fluked by a critical hit when it was at 100% HP.

Is there some significance to the duplicate warp core breach line?
Double line is because I was putting a call into my new short-log as well as the main log, and had set the short-log lines to echo through.

Higher hull values are more resistant to sub-system damage (secondary impact warp core damage is a product of the sub-system damage, uh, system.)

But as you can see from the Triada, that was its first bit of penetrating damage, so it is possible, but that's the first time in a number of test runs that I've seen it happen.
 
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Auxiliaries
So what is the difference between a member shipyard, a Starfleet shipyard and a Auxiliary shipyard?
Isn't a Aux-Shipyard just a Starfleet berth that is not in use?

Each member species has its own shipyards in major systems belonging to that species. It uses them to build its own non-combat and combat ships according to its own schedules and needs, over which we have relatively little influence. And by 'little influence' I mean that each year during the MCO phase one or more members may decide to ask Starfleet its opinion about something related to ship building, at their prerogative. Additionally, as determined by the QM we can sometimes use those member shipyards to repair Starfleet ships, if they aren't using them for anything at the moment. (And they often have some slack in their production.)

Starfleet shipyards are shipyards that we the players 'own' as Starfleet. We get to decide what's built there. I maintain a spreadsheet which you my find useful.

Boldly Go Shipbuild

An auxiliary shipyard is a bit complicated. You see, Starfleet produces and uses its own non-combat ships. Freighters, cargo ships. prospectors, colony ships, and hospital ships seem to be the types relevant to Starfleet. However the Questmaster, for reasons of reducing game complexity and maintaining control over certain mechanics, chooses not to put production of those ship types in player hands. Thus when we vote for yearly ship builds, building those types of auxiliary ships is not even an option we are allowed to choose. There is a special "Starfleet auxiliary shipyard" with four berths that is devoted to only the production of auxiliary ships and which is under QM control. We get notices of what is being built there, but input only if the QM puts some specific question up to a vote.

Vulcan
Its hard to see how the UFP can function at all if any member state can unilaterally disregard council decisions with no repercussions.

What can we say, it's politics. Remember that we could have forced them to go along, but they had the ability to make things so difficult that it would have sapped war support from the entire Federation. There were voters in this thread who wanted to force them to cooperate anyway, just as a point of principle, but not many and they didn't win the vote.

In the thread, we often joke/seriously talk about how the reason the Federation Diplomatic Service seems to do so little is that its duties are primarily internal. It's a full time job just keeping all the member states getting along with each other and smoothing over disagreements.
 
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I'm going to put up some war games between the task forces to give things a good test, since those are relatively evenly balanced.


Double line is because I was putting a call into my new short-log as well as the main log, and had set the short-log lines to echo through.

Higher hull values are more resistant to sub-system damage (secondary impact warp core damage is a product of the sub-system damage, uh, system.)

But as you can see from the Triada, that was its first bit of penetrating damage, so it is possible, but that's the first time in a number of test runs that I've seen it happen.
So on the damage penetration, it looks like it is doing additional damage. The shield dropped by the amount that was hit and then another .89 was applied to the hull. And this damage penetrating the shields, is this based on the shield burn through chance?
 
lbmaian said:
Cloaking tech is forbidden tech. Non-negotiable with the Council.

Is that a WOG? because there's no treaty right?, and even if the council sees it as a 'military' technology, they should still allow it for science ships, listening posts, outposts and pre-warp civilisation observation ...

Starfleet shipyards are shipyards that we the players 'own' as Starfleet. We get to decide what's built there. I maintain a spreadsheet which you my find useful.


That spreadsheet is amazing btw. Is the design of refits in 'our hands'? I saw the 'pacifist' refit option come along then seemingly disappear, are refits another thing we have no control over the design of?

Also minor nitpick on stats tab, the centaur-A refit should cost 1 tech yeah?

There is a special "Starfleet auxiliary shipyard" with four berths that is devoted to only the production of auxiliary ships and which is under QM control.

Why is there so much discussion about the AUX if the creation of new Engineering.Freight,Cargo,Hospital,Prospectors,Colony ships are completely out of our hands? Shouldnt we just be shrugging and going 'ok'.

Remember that we could have forced them to go along

I agreed with not wasting time trying to influence that, but it in no way should have fallen to Starfleet to use its influence to make a member state actually do what the council voted and agreed to.

we often joke/seriously talk about how the reason the Federation Diplomatic Service seems to do so little

It seems insane that its Starfleet is spending influence to generate ALL external diplomacy...
 
So on the damage penetration, it looks like it is doing additional damage. The shield dropped by the amount that was hit and then another .89 was applied to the hull. And this damage penetrating the shields, is this based on the shield burn through chance?

Actually, this is a problem. It means that there's a definite incentive to go for heavy weapons with greater chance to burn through shields. Because you literally do more damage that way.

@OneirosTheWriter, maybe it'd be better to first check how much damage bleeds through and subtract that from the damage the shield takes? It'd still mean that weapons with greater chances of burning through have an advantage due to the chance of hitting critical subsystems, but at least you don't do extra damage.
 
Is that a WOG? because there's no treaty right?, and even if the council sees it as a 'military' technology, they should still allow it for science ships, listening posts, outposts and pre-warp civilisation observation ...

Research megapost - check forbidden tech section.

Lots of discussion on why the Council won't allow cloaking. Not going to rehash most of it. Do consider that the fact that Starfleet and likely the Federation as a whole have a very public, open, and trustworthy declaration that they won't use cloaking tech has large implications on our relations and tech race with Klingon and Romulans and others.

Starfleet also has ways to hide from pre-warp civilization sensors without requiring a combat cloak. Cue all the long range subspace sensor technobabble.

That spreadsheet is amazing btw. Is the design of refits in 'our hands'? I saw the 'pacifist' refit option come along then seemingly disappear, are refits another thing we have no control over the design of?

Currently, refits of legacy ships (not designed in spreadsheet) like the Constellation are given to us by QM as a package deal, while refits of new spreadsheet-designed ships should allow custom refits. Do not that the ship design spreadsheet is in final balancing and polish stages and custom refit mechanics aren't established yet (since we don't have even have a spreadsheet-design ship yet).

Also minor nitpick on stats tab, the centaur-A refit should cost 1 tech yeah?

Centaur and Centaur-A both cost O-1 E-2 T-2. Where are you seeing a T-1?

Why is there so much discussion about the AUX if the creation of new Engineering.Freight,Cargo,Hospital,Prospectors,Colony ships are completely out of our hands? Shouldnt we just be shrugging and going 'ok'.

It happens whenever:

a) An update has some Councillors or other notable complain about Starfleet having to keep borrowing member auxiliary ships

b) Gameplay situations like this Arcadian Crisis SoE where the mechanics of auxiliary ships do matter (e.g. somewhat recent discussion on engineering ships SoE options and estimated repair yard build times) - but do note that we're mostly mobilizing member nation assets here

It seems insane that its Starfleet is spending influence to generate ALL external diplomacy...

Common complaint that I sympathize with. That said, Onerios has said he's giving the FDS more agency, so we'll see how it plays out. The Licori & Ked Paddah diplomacy, for example, was carried out on the FDS own volition, although the normal simplistic diplomacy roll mechanic isn't followed here.
 
Omake - Shipyard Survey - Vehrec
I would like to offer a thought. Been thinking about an ancient, derelict, asteroid-base used by the Orion empire but I couldn't come up with a name...until I remembered The Last Orion.

Suitable sites for Shipyards in the Orion Union: New Construction
(An excerpt from Lieutenant Xia Wu's reports.)
Subsection 2-1 Summary
  • Loknar Tamash is a planetoid approximately 209x250 kilometers in size-it is primarily composed of nickel-iron, and was extensively mined for Duranium by the Orion Empire.
  • These mining operations, in time, expanded into a vast shipyard, built inside and exterior to the original asteroid.
  • Said shipyard was ultimately left to decline due to official neglect, warring Hypercorps, and multiple invaders, and finally, Syndicate salvage teams.
  • Very little is left, but the site itself is centrally located and accessible, with multiple sites for heavy industry, critical sub-component assembly, and assembly yards.


Loknar Tamash is a minor planetoid with an ellipsoid shape, measuring 209 by 249.4 kilometers in it's minor and major axis, in the Alukk system with a storied, but faded history. Records of it's operations are vague and distorted by legend, destruction, and the actions of salvagers and the Hur'q, but it was once the greatest warp core foundry and shipyard of the entire Orion Empire. Huge Duranium reserves, though played out over a millennia ago, provided the initial impetuous to mine the asteroid-ore refining and smelting operations were soon moved to it as well, and before long, entire habitats were growing on and inside the asteroid. The largest mines, though long abandoned, still pock the surface of the asteroid, hollowing out a side and held open by huge girders to prevent the collapse of the entire edifice. These stark structural elements are all that remains today of the once imposing structure.

Our best picture of Loknar Tamash dates from approximately 920, shortly before the first outbreak of war between the Imperial government and the Hypercorperations. Unlike most shipyards at the time, it was owned jointly by several Hypercorps, each of whom profited from the others and compettion was actually fierce for contracts and employees. At this stage, Loknar Tamash swallowed the resources of an empire about the size of the Klingon's holdings in the 2250s, and brought forth from it's yards a myriad of civilian, quasi-military, and purely martial ships. Accordingly, our picture is of a vast, urban-industrial complex, sprawling across the surface of the asteroid, and connected via huge boom arms to orbital platforms like squat space elevators. Domes cover entire towns, or huge arcologies burrow into the surface. Most interesting of all, hundred-kilometer structures trail from one end of the complex, their purpose unclear even now. The onset of the Colony Wars, and subsequent battles for supremacy, saw this station greatly reduced in size, population, and productivity. In 920, Loknar Tamash may have had 5 Capital Ship berths and at least twice as many Warbird berths, but by 1100, perhaps only one warbird berth was still in operation. The Hur'q temporarily restored some facilities, only to strip bare the entire operation around in the 1300s and remove even the bolts from the walls. So complete was this salvage operation, and subsequent scouring by the Orion Syndicate, that very little historical structure has been left, and only the holes indicating where fasteners were once attached testifies to Loknar Tamash's size and industrial power. (see Appendix 3 for an speculative 'reconstruction' of the facility and a comparison to current yards.)

For the Federation however, Loknar Tamash offers an interesting possibility. It is one of the few sites within the Orion Union where a suitable shipyard site exists that is not already claimed by a cooperate or government agency. It is large-very large, too large for the Orion Union's needs in fact. This is why, despite it's obvious prestige, no effort has been made to reclaim it for the Orions. Distance also plays a role-Loknar Tamash is rather distant from Alukk, and it would be necessary to build the tools to to build the tools to build the ships-and building accommodations for hundreds and thousands of workers would also be required. With no nearby planet to base efforts from, for industrial work and defense, initial setup and defensive measures will necessarily be more expensive. Even with the best minefields and defense stations guarding it, Loknar Tamash is a poor defensive position. But when it is deep within the Federation, a weak defense against direct attack matters far less. Restarting operations at Loknar Tamash would take a huge effort-but it could easily become second only to Utopia Planitia, and it's central location allows for shorter logistical lines to certain colonies. (Appendix 4 is a tentative schedule for reconstruction and expansion, based on early plans by the Orion Union to reconstruct the original facilities, and Starfleet's expansion priorities.)
 
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