Calling up multiple diplomatic teams is not an unreasonable move. Nor engineering teams, actually.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
I see someone has learned how to translate Rogers-speak.
A mentat literally helped save the lives of everyone on a Betazed colony world.
This might be one reason the Betazoids are less than convinced of the dangers of the mentat menace. A mentat saved one of their colonies!
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Also there's the question of how much we need the runabouts right now, with most of the fleet still on guard in the LBZ. The T'mir bypassed that for the sake of the exercise, but an actual mentat infiltration is going to need to make science checks against about half of Starfleet including Enterprise. This will change as we deploy fleets further into Licori territory and crashbuild forward operating bases. Then is the time for runabout spam.
So in conclusion:
[X] Plan Diplomatic Buildup
-[X] Federation Diplomatic Service Ambassadorial Team 4 - External Diplomacy (10pt cost for Starfleet, gain External Diplomacy Team)
-[X] Federation Diplomatic Service Consular Team 3 - Internal Diplomacy (10pt cost for Starfleet, gain Internal Diplomacy Team)
- Location
- Canada
I forgot about that. It really wasn't all that long ago that we thought of the Licori as another group of friendly Science! people that we could hang out and do Science! with, and might, with the Gaeni, form a Science! faction on the Federation Council.
How quickly the tide turns...
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
@OneirosTheWriter , a question.
To deploy Starfleet Engineering Command we need to call up "2 cargo ships and 2 freighters to be sourced from member worlds." If this cost is being paid separately, does that mean that to get SEC in action, we need to use the option "Federalise Auxiliary Units from <Member World> (3 cost for freighter, 2 cost for cargo ship, 3 cost for other auxiliary units)" ?
If so, then we have to pay an additional 10 Cost for the transportation assets required to deploy Starfleet Engineering Command. Do I have that right, or am I misunderstanding?
I'd actually be happy to bring the Licori on-side somehow, even now, mentats and all... If we can get them to stop recklessly doing things that endanger non-Licori. The Gaeni were usually pretty good about that; unless you go to them, they won't hurt you as a side-effect of their own "scientific misadventures."
To deploy Starfleet Engineering Command we need to call up "2 cargo ships and 2 freighters to be sourced from member worlds." If this cost is being paid separately, does that mean that to get SEC in action, we need to use the option "Federalise Auxiliary Units from <Member World> (3 cost for freighter, 2 cost for cargo ship, 3 cost for other auxiliary units)" ?
If so, then we have to pay an additional 10 Cost for the transportation assets required to deploy Starfleet Engineering Command. Do I have that right, or am I misunderstanding?
After listening to enough teenagers self-justify, it's not that hard.
Thaaaat is quite plausible, and actually very sympathetic as a reason for Betazoids to oppose the war. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.
I'd actually be happy to bring the Licori on-side somehow, even now, mentats and all... If we can get them to stop recklessly doing things that endanger non-Licori. The Gaeni were usually pretty good about that; unless you go to them, they won't hurt you as a side-effect of their own "scientific misadventures."
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The main respect in which I disagree is that I think we need engineering assets more pressingly, because they're going to have to start building physical bricks-and-mortar (steel-and-superplastic?) facilities that will take months to prepare. Like sensor arrays and outposts. The earlier they start, the more likely it is that the outposts are ready in time for when we need them.
My ideal plan would look like...
[k] Plan Something Like This
-[k] Federation Diplomatic Service Ambassadorial Team 4 - External Diplomacy (10pt cost for Starfleet, gain External Diplomacy Team)
-[k] At Least One Engineering Team
-[k] A Runabout Squadron, If We Have Budget Left Over
Right now I'm just trying to figure out how to make this happen.
For instance, can we call up Starfleet Engineers for 5 cost, or will mobilizing them require us to pay an additional 10 cost or so to requisition shipping for them to travel in? In the former case we can get Starfleet Engineering to start the construction work this month, and have assets left over for a runabout squadron and a frigate requisition. In the latter case, we'd pretty much have to call up engineers from one of the member worlds because we can't afford to blow fifteen points on Starfleet Engineering this turn.
Last edited:
Nah. Oneiros is a fellow Aussie so clearly it was Exercise Silent Fury and the T'Mir was code-named Rankin:
- Location
- Canada
Except that the Teams each cost 10, so taking two means taking nothing else.
It's a justifiable cost, since Teams give us actions to do things with... but we might want assets in the field instead, and those are dirt-cheap.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
As explained by my edit, I THINK we might have a way to get ONE engineering team into the field for five points, in which case we can afford a little more.
That said, all runabouts can do is reconnaissance. We already know this, we used them for that in the Biophage crisis. It is highly unlikely that anything runabouts can start doing right now is more important than getting our physical installations ready as soon as possible. We have an entire fleet of "assets in the field" already, what we lack is the ability to do construction and diplomacy work.
That said, all runabouts can do is reconnaissance. We already know this, we used them for that in the Biophage crisis. It is highly unlikely that anything runabouts can start doing right now is more important than getting our physical installations ready as soon as possible. We have an entire fleet of "assets in the field" already, what we lack is the ability to do construction and diplomacy work.
Ah yes, the sober, serious (by comparison) Gaeni. I remember how amazed we were when it was revealed that "scientific misadventure" is one of the standard boxes that can be checked for 'Cause of Death' on Gaeni investigation forms.
Well then you should vote for this:
[]Plan Heavy Lifting
- Federation Diplomatic Service Ambassadorial Team 4 - External Diplomacy (10pt cost for Starfleet, gain External Diplomacy Team)
- Gorc Belth Colonial Engineers - Engineering Team (10 Cost from Tellar, gain Engineering Team with 2 Engineering Ships, 3 Cargo Ships, 1 Freighter)
The Gorc Belth team comes with ships already included.
[X] Industry and Diplomacy
- [X]Federation Diplomatic Service Ambassadorial Team 4 - External Diplomacy (10pt cost for Starfleet, gain External Diplomacy Team)
- [X] North America Productivity Commission - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Earth, gain Heavy Industry asset)
- [X] Shorc Xurth Resource Combine - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Tellar, gain Heavy Industry asset)
I think the sooner we get started on expanding our industry (or perhaps more specific get it retooled for war) the better.
- [X]Federation Diplomatic Service Ambassadorial Team 4 - External Diplomacy (10pt cost for Starfleet, gain External Diplomacy Team)
- [X] North America Productivity Commission - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Earth, gain Heavy Industry asset)
- [X] Shorc Xurth Resource Combine - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Tellar, gain Heavy Industry asset)
I think the sooner we get started on expanding our industry (or perhaps more specific get it retooled for war) the better.
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
We really should look into mobilizing a Starfleet Science division Stellar Dynamics team (we do have science folk who are not doing result focuses research, right?) or the like to look into countermeasures for the star-manipulation tech, or information on how it works so other tech teams later can interact with that.
Ideally, we want to set up a joint forward science team on Gaen.
Ideally, we want to set up a joint forward science team on Gaen.
Last edited:
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
The way to prevent it is to blow up the ship with the mentat on board. By the time the star has exploded it's already way too late.
Well... That happened.
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Yes, but if we can find out that a field of polarized vertion particles slows the effect, we have more time to try to stop the boom.
A tech solution does not protect all stars, and they will countermeasure, but Science is something we do too, not just big guns.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Once I know what the real cost of Starfleet Engineering is (five, or fifteen?), I'm going to do something very much like that.
Exactly what do you foresee us needing? This isn't a war against a peer opponent. We have something like eight or ten times as many ships as the Licori already, for example. We don't need factories doing anything they aren't already doing. What we need is specific bases and facilities, in specific locations where they are urgently required. That's a job for construction teams, not heavy industry.
You think so, but what if there turns out to be a method that lets us LOLNOPE the process that causes stars to explode? Would you really want us to remain ignorant of that method? It's worth looking into.
Heavy Industry Team definition: You need heavy industry to provide extra boosts to ship production, repair, to produce the components necessary for constructing stations, outposts, and starbases.
- Location
- Canada
Although I'd really like an Engineering Team, I think we need Researchers even more than Engineers, and the only ones on offer come with a handy recon team. Accordingly, I'd like something along the lines of...
[X] Plan Early Mobilization
-[X] Federation Diplomatic Service Ambassadorial Team 4 - External Diplomacy (10pt cost for Starfleet, gain External Diplomacy Team)
-[X] Vulcan Survey Corps - Recon team (3 cost for Vulcan, gain +1 to outpost and starbase atttempts to detect incoming ships, gain 1 Civilian Research Cruiser)
-[X] North America Productivity Commission - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Earth, gain Heavy Industry asset)
-[X] Federalise Fleet Units from Rigel (2 Patrol Frigates)
The all-important Ambassadors to get us hooked up with the KP, Vulcan Astrophysicists to watch the stars, some Industry guys to get started on the home-side of the production game, and the two highest-science Escorts available that aren't that one Vulcan Oberth that we might be getting anyways.
[X] Plan Early Mobilization
-[X] Federation Diplomatic Service Ambassadorial Team 4 - External Diplomacy (10pt cost for Starfleet, gain External Diplomacy Team)
-[X] Vulcan Survey Corps - Recon team (3 cost for Vulcan, gain +1 to outpost and starbase atttempts to detect incoming ships, gain 1 Civilian Research Cruiser)
-[X] North America Productivity Commission - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Earth, gain Heavy Industry asset)
-[X] Federalise Fleet Units from Rigel (2 Patrol Frigates)
The all-important Ambassadors to get us hooked up with the KP, Vulcan Astrophysicists to watch the stars, some Industry guys to get started on the home-side of the production game, and the two highest-science Escorts available that aren't that one Vulcan Oberth that we might be getting anyways.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Okay, that's another point that deserves clarification.
@OneirosTheWriter , in addition to the question about whether it will be possible for us to deploy the 5-point Starfleet Engineering team without paying an additional 10 points to call up member world shipping...
If we mobilize construction teams, will they be unable to do anything productive without heavy industry teams already called up?
________________________
Because you'd THINK that we'd have the industrial assets to do SOME new construction without having to draft anyone. There are outposts and starbases under construction all the time, all over the Federation, after all. We'd just be focusing that effort in a specific area of interest.
@Simon_Jester, the costs are already clear in the post. You're adding concerns to them that don't exist. Want an engineering team and ships? It costs 10. It can't really get more clear than it already is.
As Briefvoice says they seem to be required or at least useful for a whole number of options. For example one of the easiest things we can do in my opinion is place a number of forward outpost along the Licori border to assist our operation ther and hopefully make it more difficult for a mentat to slip through. They may also allow us to boost the construction of the Betazed starbase (a key logistics structure) or maybe even do stuff like rushing a fw oberths if it becomes necessary. And building infrastructure is in my experience always a good preparation for a war + if we get lucky some of that might benefit us even after the war..
- Location
- Canada
Speaking personally, this is probably the most useful aspect of Heavy Industry teams, to me. We've got loads of ships docked up for repairs right now, which makes getting them out of drydock and into action one of the easiest ways to bulk up our forces.
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
Samyr leading the rest of the T'Mir crew in a rendition of Louie Louie when?
Last edited:
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The member world engineer units have this cost clearly provided, and we know they come with their own ships. The Starfleet Engineers team, again, I quote:
"Starfleet Engineering Command (5pt from Starfleet, to deploy will require 2 cargo ships and 2 freighters to be sourced from member worlds)"
So does that mean "we pay five points, we get engineers that we can deploy?" Or does that mean "we pay five points, we get engineers with no spaceships, and have to separately pay for the ships?" In the latter case, the ships cost an extra ten points.
This is not a concern I made up, and if "the costs are already clear" to you then I would love to see you explain what obvious piece of logic fits it all together for you.
Um... if you've been reading my posts at all, you may be aware that this takes construction teams, possibly in addition to taking industry teams. I'm arguing for calling up construction teams first, but since there's significant ambiguity about costs and roles, my argument is tentative.
At the moment, we have plenty of bulky forces, what we don't have is a sensor network to prevent infiltration of our space. This is more or less the same problem we had with the Biophage; we spent proportionately a lot more of our effort evacuating colonists and building sensor outposts than we did getting ahold of more ships.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
We're talking about different things. There's Starfleet Engineering Command, which requires ships to activate, and then there's Engineering Teams which cost 10 but give us ships with the team. That's the confusion.