You know, if the Licori have such an aversion to "thinking machines", to the point that they would even balk at using Federation technology if (when) they lose the war, we do have a potential compromise solution:
Kadeshi Unbound technology, the process of mentally integrating biological sapience into mechanical systems.
Not that such tech being available to the Licori now would prevent a war, not with all the political influence wielded by the Great Houses and mentats.
Chief of Staff Log, Starfleet Explorer Corps, Stardate 25638.4
I've asked Captain Mbeki and Commodore ka'Sharren to each get in touch with Captain Chad following a string of bad luck. He's not the first maiden voyage of an Explorer Corps ship to go to hell.
I'm confident that the lessons are being taken to heart on the Atuin and that they'll be much stronger for the run of adverse results.
So failed events don't necessarily slow down exp gain, or Vol Chad's bonus wards that away or increases overall exp gain so much that we still got +1 crew rating in only 4 events.
And damn has Chad been having bad luck, and the worst type of luck. We may all decry how bad luck it was that Mbeki lost the Miracht, but we're talking about a failure that could result in orders of magnitude more in losses. Not just in material and life casualties, but also in culture and society, both in the Licori AND the Federation - all this attention is being paid to the Licori, but look at all the public discontent in the Federation now because of this impending war.
Second, bear in mind Mentats are like a cross between their OG source material counterparts and another important element of the Dune universe - the Spacer's guild. Without Mentats, you can't go FTL.
You're asking us to "bear in mind" something you made up and asserted without ever being stated in a game post. There is absolutely no evidence that their every FTL ship has to have a mentat on board. It's a theory you're positing based on "they substitute mentats for computers" but we have no idea how powerful something has to be to count as a computer in their minds or if they've found non-mentat workarounds for some functions. It's not an unreasonable theory, but it could easily be false.
It's highly likely that aside from outright puppeteering by the Mentats of the Emperor as @Leila Hann has suggested, they are an incredibly powerful force on their own.
You have to remember that Mentats must wield enourmous influence by dint of what they do. I'm sure there's very little the Empreror can do to cross them collectively that doesn't involve him getting used in a horrible experiment.
Can you tell me what actions the FDS took that weren't demanding the Emperor for explanations, demanding the Emperor crack down, supporting the Gaen ultimatum, and issuing an ultimatum of our own?
What gets me is that they didn't make a counteroffer. Like, if the Licori had said "we can't stop all mentat operations everywhere, but we are willing to send imperial patrol ships to supervise the major ones and crack down heavily on unsanctioned experiments," I can't believe that the Federation would refuse that. Why didn't they offer something like that?
Probably because Oneiros is a) trying to keep this simple b) really wants this conflict to happen? Because lets face it, from a narrative standpoint this war is a perfect way to counter some of the insane expansion of the Federation and generate some actual conflict and possibility of loss which needed for a good story. And of course it allows him to prepare a whole slew of interesting future plots/stories to follow (for example the whole pacifist/militarisation debate ,Federation as galaxy police, etc).
I'd bet on Oneiros having a good explanation for the war, beyond "because I wanted to." Of course we can go all Doylist/Watsonian on whatever explanation is given, but at that level of overanalysis everything just gets blamed on authorial fiat and there's no point in trying to make sense of anything.
Losing the war is caving to the Federation with added problem that blood has been spilled and prestige lost. This plan works if he basically surrenders to the Federation in orbit of his homeworld and nobody tries to murder him before that point, but the odds are pretty good his rule will collapse to the point someone tries to murder him before that, or that someone will murder him as a prelude to suing for peace (because now the intransigent problem is gone, we'll be nice!), or that the Federation will back some house (which is kind of our actual plan) to depose and possibly murder him before peace, or that he'll be deposed and then his odds of being murdered by the next guy/their supporters go up dramatically because he casts doubt on their legitimacy simply by existing, or a dozen other possibilities he gets murdered this way. His chances for personal survival and his house still ruling aren't better this way. When empires get beaten up on, the Emperor usually falls.
Every time an empire ends up between a rock and a hard place, the emperor usually falls. Seriously, none of the Licori emperor's options at this point are good.
If he's actually making the real decisions, then he is a very desperate man. Complying with our wishes is not a good way for him to avoid all his many troubles. Indeed, it would make some of his troubles much worse, and those are the troubles that hang over him every day like the sword of Damocles. By comparison, we are a danger that is remote, that may well be significantly exaggerated, and that even if every rumor about us is true, is unlikely to directly destroy him or his. If you want to talk up the danger that he'll be deposed by the next guy if he fights the Federation, you can't turn around and downplay the danger that the exact same thing will happen if he just plain unilaterally surrenders.
So he has no compelling incentive to comply with our demands without putting up a fight first. It's as simple as that.
So failed events don't necessarily slow down exp gain, or Vol Chad's bonus wards that away or increases overall exp gain so much that we still got +1 crew rating in only 4 events.
And damn has Chad been having bad luck, and the worst type of luck. We may all decry how bad luck it was that Mbeki lost the Miracht, but we're talking about a failure that could result in orders of magnitude more in losses. Not just in material and life casualties, but also in culture and society, both in the Licori AND the Federation - all this attention is being paid to the Licori, but look at all the public discontent in the Federation now because of this impending war.
I think it's because narratively, we've gotten used to the Licori being recalcitrant over the past year or so.* They give us trouble, they downplay the negative consequences of their own actions, they don't seem willing to seriously engage with us. So people don't blame Chad for this diplomatic breakdown, because it seemed like such a long shot that something like this could succeed.
*(Not so much before that. I remember when I was talking about how the Ked Peddah probably had a sympathetic reason to be fighting this war, and people arguing with me, once upon a time...)
Iron Wolf, I think your theorizing is pretty cool, but you're jumping the gun on assuming your head-canon about what's going on is correct.
You're asking us to "bear in mind" something you made up and asserted without ever being stated in a game post. There is absolutely no evidence that their every FTL ship has to have a mentat on board. It's a theory you're positing based on "they substitute mentats for computers" but we have no idea how powerful something has to be to count as a computer in their minds or if they've found non-mentat workarounds for some functions. It's not an unreasonable theory, but it could easily be false.
It is highly probable that even if they can manage to dispense with mentats for FTL calculations and plot warp drive courses with a slide rule and a pad of paper, that they actually need mentats for something. The mentat conversion process wouldn't even exist if there weren't a social need. Even ignoring that they're apparently taking their species' greatest minds and burning them out in under a decade, that kind of biotech program isn't easy, quick, or cheap.
So while the specific speculation "they can't build functioning starships without mentats" may be false (and you yourself have speculated along similar lines), it is effectively certainly true that "something critically important about their civilization won't function without mentats." Maybe even something so important that it makes not having starships seem relatively inconsequential. Like, say, ongoing containment procedures on their homeworld's main power plants. Each of which requires the constant attention of a large team of mentats that have the collective computational chops to do the job of the computer other people would use to keep reactor containment in place. If those mentats walk out the door, major cities start blowing up in big fireballs.
If mentats weren't important for something then none of this would be happening. And it can't just be science.
Eh, maybe or maybe not. I can just as easily see the Mentats caring about nothing but SCIENCE and being completely helpless to act on their own.
Yeah; it could turn out to be something like Focus from Vernor Vinge's A Deepness in the Sky:
Wikipedia said:
The mindrot virus originally manifested itself on the Emergents' home world as a devastating plague, but they subsequently mastered it and learned to use it both as a weapon and as a tool for mental domination. Emergent culture uses mindrot primarily in the form of a variant which technicians can manipulate in order to release neurotoxins to specific parts of the brain. An active MRI-type device triggers changes through dia- and paramagnetic biological molecules. By manipulating the brain in this way, Emergent managers induce obsession with a single idea or specialty, which they call Focus, essentially turning people into brilliant appliances...
In this scenario, mentats are inhumanly skillful in specific areas, but incredibly deficient in others. Focus basically lets you take a neurotypical person and induce idiot savant status in them. And the "idiot" part of that description can easily be in full effect.
This would tend to make mentats easy to manipulate and control, but it would also mean that when they get obsessed on a project they're like, oh, Dwarf Fortress dwarves at their worst. If they do have sufficient social intelligence and flexibility to do anything of their own initiative, it's going to be some pretty crazy things that they do.
I'd bet on Oneiros having a good explanation for the war, beyond "because I wanted to." Of course we can go all Doylist/Watsonian on whatever explanation is given, but at that level of overanalysis everything just gets blamed on authorial fiat and there's no point in trying to make sense of anything.
[X] [WG] A Fleet "Battle". The Thirishar, Gale, Harmony, Astute, and Assist vs the T'Mir and runabouts to simulate civilian traffic. The Svai and Calypso are available as a reserve. The objective is to prevent the "mentat" on the T'Mir from penetrating the patrol area and destructively completing their thesis, which would result in the annihilation of Betazed. A second Oberth [Torbriel] is secretly participating as a decoy. [Please caucus this vote with the similar plan that does not use Thirishar, if it does not win] Cost: 6pp.
2314.Q4.M1.F1
Briefing Room 5, Starbase 1, Sol System
"Officers, brothers and sisters of the Federation," begins Victoria Eaton as she stands up to a podium. In the room with her are thirty-five starship captains of vessels great and small, and a slew of flag and staff officers. "I regret to inform you all that we are gathered here to knock upon the skeletal gates of war. In its own way this is a harder task than those we have faced in the past, where we have felt so just, so sure in our path. We had luxuries against the Biophage. We had luxuries against the Syndicate. In the Gabriel our conscience is unshackled by the fair and open playing field."
The fleet commander looks out over her many charges. It seems like only yesterday she would be looking out from her chair on the Courageous to see only her bridge crew. Yet now she faces enough shiny jacket badges that she could melt them down and build another Courageous. Rosalee's presence near the lectern gives her courage.
"The Council has issued an ultimatum to the Arcadian Empire, but a State of Emergency is already in effect. One of the most crucial tasks we will face as a group over the next few months as the timer expires is to keep the borders tight, to not allow any intrusion by mentats in advance of any declaration of war. In many ways, if the war starts, this will be the manner of it. We are not facing overwhelming odds, implacable foes, or monstrosities inimical to life as we know it. Instead, we will be the overwhelming force, they the desperate defenders who will try every trick in the book to keep us at bay. But make no mistake, we must confront this threat. The 'experiment' that devastated the Courageous also constitutes a doomsday mechanism that can be used by any rogue mentat against any world in the Federation. Unchecked, mentats will eventually produce a result so apocalyptic it could threaten the Federation's existence.
"In the older, more violent past of Earth, there was a naval officer who said, paraphrasing, 'give me a fast ship, for a intend to go in harm's way.' Well, tend to your warp cores and nacelles when you return to your ships, officers, for I intend to send you in harm's way."
In addition to yesterday's ultimatum, today brings with it an announcement that a State of Emergency is coming into effect. This two was a contested vote, illustrating an alarming lack of unity within the Council, which is particularly concerning as dissenting Councillors are concentrated in some of the regions most vulnerable to mentat harm, casting some doubt as to the severity of the threat. Starfleet will be under considerable pressure to avoid a lengthy or bloody campaign, or they may see support evaporate.
Article:
Empowered by the Articles of Federation, States of Emergency are times where the resources of the UFP need to be mobilised and employed in a coherent manner to negate a threat that imperils the Federation. In this case, the Council has declared that the threat posed by the Arcadian mentats is so severe it could cause serious harm to the Federation. As a result, Starfleet, led currently by Admiral Valentina Sousa, will be empowered to coordinate the Federation's defence.
A Council Emergency Committee is being formed under the chair of Council veteran Hayley Singh of Alpha Centauri-X. Joining her are Hiand Benat of Indoria-D, Sadek of Atatan-D, P'shirri of Ferasa-P, Rangyad of Rigel-M, and Iftie Cufriec of Selindra-H. This committee serves as the enabling body for Starfleet's mobilisation of civilian and member world resources, empowered by the Arcadian Emergency Act of 2314.
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State of Emergency, 2314.Q4.M1 (Turn 1 of State of Emergency)
You are currently operating in a State of Emergency.
This entails an increased operational tempo and an increase to available assets.
These assets usually will require no additional resources from Starfleet, as you are directing the resources of a Federation that does not embrace money. Any additional requirements will be noted on the actions themselves. The most notable brake on your mobilisation of assets comes from their effect on the war support of the various member groups. You have already been provided control over a large fraction of fleet assets from the member worlds nearest the LBZ, but more can be requisitioned.
This State of Emergency will endure until such time as the cause of the crisis is resolved. In this case, until the Mentats of the Arcadian Empire no longer poses a threat to the Federation.
=====================================
Assets
Automatic Assets:
Starfleet Line Starships
Starfleet Auxiliary Ships
Federation Emergency Committee - Internal Diplomacy Team
The following units are available to be mobilised at relatively short notice. More options from each world will become available:
[ ] Please select up to a maximum of 20 war support of assets to mobilise from the start
(Please be aware of costs associated with assets)
Starfleet Reserve Personnel (20pt from Starfleet, +20 O/E/T for duration of SoE only, one-time)
Starfleet Engineering Command (5pt from Starfleet, to deploy will require 2 cargo ships and 2 freighters to be sourced from member worlds)
Federalise Fleet Units from <Member World> (5 cost for explorer, 2 cost for cruiser, 1 cost for frigate, paid against member world you are calling up fleet units from)
Federalise Auxiliary Units from <Member World> (3 cost for freighter, 2 cost for cargo ship, 3 cost for other auxiliary units)
Federation Diplomatic Service Ambassadorial Team 4 - External Diplomacy (10pt cost for Starfleet, gain External Diplomacy Team)
Federation Diplomatic Service Consular Team 3 - Internal Diplomacy (10pt cost for Starfleet, gain Internal Diplomacy Team)
Andorian Orbital Guard Runabouts (3 cost for Andorian Guard, gain +1 to outpost and starbase atttempts to detect incoming ships)
Starfleet Academy Red Squad Runabouts - Recon team (4 cost for Starfleet, gain +1 to outpost and starbase atttempts to detect incoming ships)
Vulcan Survey Corps - Recon team (3 cost for Vulcan, gain +1 to outpost and starbase atttempts to detect incoming ships, gain 1 Civilian Research Cruiser)
North America Productivity Commission - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Earth, gain Heavy Industry asset)
Shorc Xurth Resource Combine - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Tellar, gain Heavy Industry asset)
East Asian Productivity Commission - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Earth, gain Heavy Industry asset)
Cheleb-Kor Industrial Centre - Heavy Industry Team (8 Cost to Vulcan, gain Heavy Industry asset)
Dhara Heavy Industry Park - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Andoria, gain Heavy Industry asset)
Gorc Belth Colonial Engineers - Engineering Team (10 Cost from Tellar, gain Engineering Team with 2 Engineering Ships, 3 Cargo Ships, 1 Freighter)
UESPA Deep Space Engineering - Engineering Team (10 Cost from United Earth, gain Engineering Team with 2 Engineering Ships, 3 Cargo Ships, 1 Freighter)
Andorian Imperial Star Engineers - Engineering Team (10 Cost from Andor, gain Engineering Team with 2 Engineering Ships, 2 Cargo Ships, 1 Freighter)
Generate Generic Heavy Industry from <Member World> (10 Cost to Member World, gain Heavy Industry asset)
Generate Generic Engineering Team from <Member World> (15 Cost to Member World, gain Engineering team)
Generate Generic Internal Diplomacy Team from <Member World> (10 Cost to Starfleet, 5 Cost to Member World, gain Internal Diplomacy Team)
Generate Generic External Diplomacy Team from <Member World> (10 Cost to Starfleet, 5 Cost to Member World, gain External Diplomacy Team)
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Fleet Units
Fleet Units
Starships and other assets that you can use to supplement your forces, create new task forces, replace losses, or reinforce attacks.
Recon Units
Recon Units
Supplementary patrol units that you can attach to your starbases, outposts, and fleet units.
Internal Diplomacy
Internal Diplomacy
Assets that you can employ to help bolster links between member worlds, or shore up flagging support. They can also be used to increase the rate with which you are able to mobilise assets, though that may become a double-edged sword.
External Diplomacy
External Diplomacy
Assets that you can employ to conduct relations with other nearby powers, such as the Ked Paddah, the Honiani, the Laio, the Gaeni, and others.
Engineering Teams
Engineering Teams
Field deployable units consisting of Engineering Ships, construction crews, and the like. They are capable of conducting operations abroad in unsettled systems.
Heavy Industry
Heavy Industry
You need heavy industry to provide extra boosts to ship production, repair, to produce the components necessary for constructing stations, outposts, and starbases.
Doctrine Specialists
Doctrine Specialists
All doctrines are plans, and no plan survives first contact with the enemy. War is the most unforgiving task master, so you best learn what works and doesn't work quickly.
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The Home Front
Current War Support:
Starfleet - 200pt
United Earth SPA - 140pt (-10 from Economic Mobilisation)
Vulcan High Command - 45pt (-5 from Economic Mobilisation)
Tellarite State Forces - 140pt (-10 from Economic Mobilisation)
Betazed Defence Forces - 50pt
Rigel Defence Force - 100pt
Andorian Guard - 100pt
IT of Gaen - 150pt
NB: Starfleet's entry here is more to do with organisation-wide morale and depth.
War Weariness increases with:
Battles
Casualties
Time
Resource Requests
Economic Policy changes
Failing set objectives
War Support increases with:
Some victories
Achieving set objectives
Releasing resources
Current Economic Settings:
Starfleet - N/A
United Earth SPA - Peacetime -> Early Mobilisation
Vulcan High Command - Pacifist -> Peacetime
Tellarite State Force - Peacetime -> Early Mobilisation
Betazed Defence Forces - Pacifist
Andorian Guard - Peacetime
Rigel Defence Force - Peacetime
IT of Gaen - Wartime Economy
Honiani - Peacetime
Laio - Peacetime
Levels of Mobilisation
Pacifist - 75% of normal income, 100% of normal build
Peacetime - 100% of normal income, 100% of normal build time, no stockpile opening
Early - 125% of normal income, -1Qtr build time, open 25% of stockpile
Limited - 150% of normal income, -2Qtr build time, open full stockpile
Wartime - 200% of normal income, -25% build time, post-war economic slump,
Total - 250% of normal income, -50% build time, post-war economic crash,
There are maximum time-frames that a wartime economy can be maintained without income dropping again.
===================================
War game results:
T'Mir starts from [1C] at Gammon, below Kappa Tau
Thirishar stays close to Betazed - escort ships spread out in patrol screen
T'Mir begins approach
Med DC Sci-T to decide which ship's patrol area to approach - easily passed, chooses seam between Astute and Assist, both will attempt but at -1
Astute and Assist each make opposed Sci-T to detect. T'Mir wins both easily.
Entering search envelope for Rixx Defence Platform - opposed Sci-T roll, T'Mir wins, continues undetected.
T'Mir will attempt to create a decoy for Thirishar to follow, Hard DC Sci-T: pass
Thirishar faces Hard DC Sci-T test to detect that they are following a decoy - failed
Thirishar faces Hard DC Rec-T to reach the decoy in time to return to Betazed system at -2: failed
T'Mir to make Hard DC Sci-T for undetected final approach into Betazed system: passed
And opposed by Outpost: T'Mir wins
In Betazed there is nothing left bar the eternal laughter of Samyr Kanil.
Vulcan Survey Corps - Recon team (3 cost for Vulcan, gain +1 to outpost and starbase atttempts to detect incoming ships, gain 1 Civilian Research Cruiser)
Federation Diplomatic Service Ambassadorial Team 4 - External Diplomacy (10pt cost for Starfleet, gain External Diplomacy Team)
Andorian Orbital Guard Runabouts (3 cost for Andorian Guard, gain +1 to outpost and starbase atttempts to detect incoming ships)
Starfleet Academy Red Squad Runabouts - Recon team (4 cost for Starfleet, gain +1 to outpost and starbase atttempts to detect incoming ships)
Vulcan Survey Corps - Recon team (3 cost for Vulcan, gain +1 to outpost and starbase atttempts to detect incoming ships, gain 1 Civilian Research Cruiser)
It's not points, we can activate twenty total assets, but they each have a points cost to war willingness. There's no way we're activating all twenty. I'm thinking 5 to 6 assets.
It's not points, we can activate twenty total assets, but they each have a points cost to war willingness. There's no way we're activating all twenty. I'm thinking 5 to 6 assets.
We also need more detection assets. That will help a lot, especially with our frigate-heavy patrol group.
Thank god the T'Mir is on our side. Can we make the choice to keep that ship in reserve over the Thirishar? Because the T'Mir can probably chump any mentat and it's even decent in a ship-to-ship fight.
Here I was worried having an explorer involved would make things too hard for T'Mir. But here we are. Thirishar can never catch a break can she? Poor girl > : (
@OneirosTheWriter Doctrine Specialist is one of the war assets we can possess, but right now there are no Doctrine Specialists we can activate. Is that deliberate?
Based on the T'Mir scenario, we need to bump up our detection abilities. So my current plan is.
[X] Plan Friends and Runabouts
-[X] Federation Diplomatic Service Ambassadorial Team 4 - External Diplomacy (10pt cost for Starfleet, gain External Diplomacy Team)
-[X] Andorian Orbital Guard Runabouts (3 cost for Andorian Guard, gain +1 to outpost and starbase atttempts to detect incoming ships)
-[X] Starfleet Academy Red Squad Runabouts - Recon team (4 cost for Starfleet, gain +1 to outpost and starbase atttempts to detect incoming ships)
-[X] Requisition Member Fleet Asset- Vulcan Oberth (1 cost)
We need the external diplomacy to coordinate with Gaen and the Ked Paddah, so that should be top priority. The next priority is protecting our own space, so pick up two cheap bonuses to detection. Not the Vulcans because they are low enough as is. With that and the Betazed Starbase underway, we should be able to stop any Mentat incursions before they become an issue.
