Sense there seems to be momentum behind designing a Crusier heavy fleet, has there been thought towards designing a 'Light Explorer' that could serve as something near enough to the Excelsior but still be cheaper in personelle and Materale?

TL;DR: Excelsior version of the Nebula?
 
Still how long it is going to be before we get our current ship off the fleet and replace them? That is the bigger problem anyway. A refit would allow us to keep our current ships running until we can build enough Renaissances.
We can keep them running as is just fine without a refit.
 
I would rather not do the Constellation refit and instead just keep the existing ones as we build replacements. If there is a refit to do it would be the Centaur refit as it is a solid escort class with that. Constellations though would not be retired unless we needed their crew or were bumping into the combat cap.
We only got 2 Centaur in the fleet It can't have become outdated already.

More to point Cenatur is already is a solid escort it can handle current thread level with what he has. Constellation tough we have many of it. It would behove us to see it they don't become too outdated.

Because while Cantaur refit might look shiny it is pretty premature to do it.

You refit the fleet you have not the fleet you wish you have.
 
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Sense there seems to be momentum behind designing a Crusier heavy fleet, has there been thought towards designing a 'Light Explorer' that could serve as something near enough to the Excelsior but still be cheaper in personelle and Materale?

TL;DR: Excelsior version of the Nebula?

Nebula's twice as large as the Excelsior with almost double the crew. And besides, we want ships doing solo exploration being tanky and well equipped. Also, I'm pretty sure we're going for an Explorer heavy build, with some CL and escorts for garrison duties.
 
Sense there seems to be momentum behind designing a Crusier heavy fleet, has there been thought towards designing a 'Light Explorer' that could serve as something near enough to the Excelsior but still be cheaper in personelle and Materale?

TL;DR: Excelsior version of the Nebula?

Really, that would be a Renaissance or a Constitution. I mean, compare the stats. Combat only 1 lower, shields and hull the same, admittedly substantially inferior in Science. As my Omake made clear, a Renaissance is pretty close to a Constitution, which is the previous generation of Explorer.
 
How much pp are we willing to spend on refits and new projects? Are we willing to spend 80 to both refit and supplement/replace the same class of cruisers?
(For that matter, how would launching a refit project now affect the future pp cost of designing its replacement?)
 
Why do we need to wait? If you want to do the refit so badly, we can do it while working on the Renaissance. I'm pretty sure that we don't need the UP team for it.
Do we have enough resources for it? IF so I am all for having both that was my intention for it anyway.
 
Why are we so desperate to revamp our cruisers anyways? We're not likely to be going to war soon, and we've got other ships we can build instead of Constellations. I'd rather spend pp on a budget increase and use that for building Centaurs than try to rebuild our cruiser fleet right now. Let's let the UP group crank out some cruiser techs first before looking at refit or replacement.
 
Not unless we got a bunch more pp compared to this year leading up to the next snakepit. We had just under 70pp this last one, and doing both costs 80pp.
The we should do the refit because it will be faster. Renasseince is longer term than refit anyway. 1-2 years won't make that big of difference but a refit is short term goal few years might make difference.

Why are we so desperate to revamp our cruisers anyways? We're not likely to be going to war soon, and we've got other ships we can build instead of Constellations. I'd rather spend pp on a budget increase and use that for building Centaurs than try to rebuild our cruiser fleet right now. Let's let the UP group crank out some cruiser techs first before looking at refit or replacement.
Cardassians spooked me. And we seem to have problem in our cruisers. Centaur is really new and effective and our explorers are awesome but our work horse is LC and we are behind there.
 
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The we should do the refit because it will be faster. Renasseince is longer term than refit anyway. 1-2 years won't make that big of difference but a refit is short term goal few years might make difference.
I feel the reverse. The sooner we start working on the Renaissance, the sooner we have it available to start replacing the Constellation. We can do the refit sometime during the design/prototype phases.
 
Why are we so desperate to revamp our cruisers anyways? We're not likely to be going to war soon, and we've got other ships we can build instead of Constellations. I'd rather spend pp on a budget increase and use that for building Centaurs than try to rebuild our cruiser fleet right now. Let's let the UP group crank out some cruiser techs first before looking at refit or replacement.

The main issue is that it's been stated the Federation intends to increase Defense requirements in all systems in the near future and expects us to build enough ships to provide. In that context Centaurs are a poor choice because they don't provide as much Defense for their Combat power.

Federation Council Objective:
120 Defence by 2311

Our current ships built and in progress put us at:
5 Excelsiors + 3 in progress = 48 Defense
1 Constitution = 5 Defense
7 Constellation + 1 in progress = 24 Defense
3 Oberth + 1 in progress = 4 Defense
11 Miranda = 22 Defense

I assume we will retire the Soyuz and do not count those. So that puts us at 103. We need to get 17 more Defense out of our shipyards in the next five years.
2 Excelsior - 12 Defense ( I don't think we'll be able to get more than an additional 2 started and built in five years)
We need another 5 Defense, and I would really rather not do minimum requirements so it would be better to exceed and go at least 10 beyond for another 15 Defense.

What's the plan for getting the extra 5 to 15 Defense?

If we refitted all our Constellations, that would get 8 right there without having to devote any additional crew. (Less than two years for the refit design, then do 2 refits a year.) Build another 4 Centaurs and we're golden.
 
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What about a custom designed escort, defense focused? We have a number of 1t berths that just sit there - we should be choosing to do something with the small/light category, rather than 'toss them until the Defiant is possible'.
 
We are also looking like we may be getting a few new full federation members in 4-6 years at the rate things are going. Waiting till then, so we can fully integrate our technologies and design methodologies together, may be the right time to push forward with next generation ship designs.
 
What about a custom designed escort, defense focused? We have a number of 1t berths that just sit there - we should be choosing to do something with the small/light category, rather than 'toss them until the Defiant is possible'.
Those are what we'd use to build Renaissances, or maybe a couple more Constellations if needed, once the project's complete. Centaurs are ok, but I'd rather wait until we develop the New Orleans to build more Escorts unless really necessary.
 
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Captain's Log - 2305.Q5 - All Good Things....
Captain's Log, USS Enterprise, Stardate 22040.4 - Captain Nash ka'Sharren

After completing a last tour of exploration on the frontier of the Amarkia Sector, the Enterprise and the other Explorer Corps vessels are headed to Dzinghi III, or Amarkia, to regroup before returning to Sol. It has been a tremendously successful five years at the helm of this astounding vessel and her incredible crew.

As seems appropriate for the Enterprise's role as pride of the fleet, we will be hosting a celebration for the senior officers of the three ships after we meet with the Amarkian dignitaries.

[+15 SR]

-

Captain's Log, USS Courageous, Stardate 22040.6 - Captain Victoria Eaton

My last geological survey as master of the Courageous is complete. In fact, most likely as master of any vessel. The data packet from Starfleet has come through confirming my promotion to Commodore. Not just a Chapter, but an Act of my life is coming to a close, ready for a new one to begin. We have laid in a course at Warp Factor 7 to rejoin our sister ships in preparation for the last victory lap.

I suppose it will be good to see Earth again.

[+25 BR]

-

Captain's Log, USS Sarek, Stardate 22040.8 - Captain T'Lorel

After using our phasers to core an emergency mine tunnel to rescue trapped mine workers on an Indorian colony world, we have secured from field operations and are proceeding back to Amarkia Station. Although it seems an illogical use of resources, I have been persuaded to join the celebration for the completion of our five year mission on the Enterprise.

[+25 Relations with Indorians, +5 pp]

-

Captain's Log, USS Enterprise, Stardate 22041.3

All three of the Explorer Corps ships have arrived together, and carried out the necessary pleasantries on the station. For all that it was an enjoyable stay, I am eager to return to my ship. With little time left in our mission, and no promise that, even having turned down the promotion, that I will still get a chance to captain another ship, I feel pained to be away from her.

There is a peculiar subspace storm passing through the system that might make use of the transporter a bit tricky, but my transporter chief assures me he can compensate for it. Us three Captains shall beam back together.

============================================


"You are positive that you are compensating for the subspace distortions, Chief Bolissa?" asks T'Lorel in her sharp Vulcan tones. "They have worsened in our time on the station."

The three Captains are gathered on a transporter pad on the station

The Amarki petty officer nods back. "Yes, Captain!"

"She'll be fine, T'Lorel," reassures Victoria. "I've looked over the sensor scans, the distortion isn't that bad."

"In my experience, Captain Eaton, there is no such thing as a 'not that bad' subspace distortion," says T'Lorel. "I would be happier with a shuttle."

"Worry wart," teases Nash ka'Sharen. "You may proceed, Chief. Three to beam out."

"Yes, Captain!" There is a brief moment of conversation between the Petty Officer her counterpart on the Enterprise. Finally there is the flash of blue and dazzling light. The view of the station's transporter room fades away...

...and the transporter room of the Enterprise appears. All three officers immediately recoil. Everything seems off! Commander Ajam and Lieutenant-Commander Leaniss are there, as is Commander Zaardmani. But their uniforms look like very flamboyant versions of those of the 2260s! Decorations, pins and sashes mark the uniforms. Phaser pistols sit on each hip. The three Captains exchange a sharp glance and are shocked again to realise they are all wearing the same type of uniform, crop-topped, mini-skirted, long-booted, and in the old command gold!

"Captains!" greets Leaniss. She pounds a fist against her chest and extends it out in a martial salute. "We welcome you back, Captain ka'Sharren! Captain Eaton, T'Lorel, we are proud to have you aboard! The celebrations of your glorious conquest of the Sydraxite Benevolence for the Terran Empire will take place in the observation lounge on Deck 1."

"As before," whispers T'Lorel out of the side of her mouth, "There is no such thing as a 'not that bad' subspace distortion."

"Duly noted," whispers back Eaton.

============================================

Captain's Log, ISS Enterprise, Stardate 22041.4

Something has gone bizarrely wrong in the transport.

We appear to be in some peculiar 'mirror' of the world we know. A parallel dimension where everything seems similar but is twisted about. The two ships with us are no longer the Courageous and Sarek, but the Conqueror and Stronghold. Eaton is doing her best to look over the transport logs and sensor entries in order to see what happened.

It is weird seeing these doppelgangers of my crew! Zaardmani is as hard and cold as stone, Stol is a cackling madman with a goatee, Leaniss is my feared, bloody-handed enforcer, and apparently 'the Captain's Woman', whatever that means. Ajam is a an interrogator par excellence, and Doctor Asurva is a seductress who runs Sickbay like a personal empire within my ship.

I dread to think what Engineering is like.

On the other hand, these uniforms aren't actually that bad. I had no idea T'Lorel had that kind of figure.

-

Captain's Log, ISS Conqueror, Stardate 22041.5

First off, I want to say that I hate these uniforms. I was stupendously grateful when they phased out the miniskirt uniform, so to be back here is a pain. Rosalee McAdams is here except ... that's not quite the Rosalee I know. The scars, the boasts. She has the stillness of Rosalee, and the ability to explode into action. But the what and how of her actions are so different! When a crewman didn't notice me and thus didn't salute, Rosalee broke his jaw and hit him with something called an "Agoniser".

A look at the transporter and sensor logs have revealed that we've been shunted between dimensions. Thankfully, no one else has picked up on this.

-

Captain's Log, ISS Stronghold, Stardate 22041.6

Apparently here I am famous for orbit-to-ground desolation of cities. "T'Lorel the Demolisher".

This is not a title I relish. I have put a lot of effort into maintaining emotional control so as not to order such strikes.

-

Captain's Log, ISS Enterprise, Stardate 22041.8

Trouble! Doctor Asurva and Leaniss are apparently both controlling factions, and are currently fighting over who gets to be 'the Captain's Woman', which the more I learn about, the more preposterous it seems! Hearing about 'my' actions burning through the resistance of the peaceful Sydraxians is horrible as well. This ugly mirror of Starfleet is awful even to simply be around. Thankfully, Eaton thinks she has a plan.

-

Captain's Log, ISS Stronghold, Stardate 22041.9

At first I thought the Vulcans here did not control their emotions. However, I soon corrected this misconception. They control their emotions, worse, hone them to a fine edge, and instead of logic and reason, dedicate them to malice. That said, there are ... benefits to being able to motivate nonproductive crew members with a glance.

-

Captain's Log, ISS Conqueror, Stardate 22042.1

Good news: I have a plan! Bad news: there's only two hours before the subspace storm dissipates too much for it to work.

Worse news: We're starting to around suspicion.

-

Captain's Log, ISS Enterprise, Stardate 22042.15

I was ambushed leaving Storage Bay 8 with the necessary monothelide crystal that Eaton requires for her plans. Doctor Asurva did not take being turned down very well, it seems! One of her nurses took a shot at me, and I narrowly avoided being killed. The problem is, I shot to stun, and the story is spreading around the ship like wildfire!

Captain gone soft, ripe for assassination.

-

Captain's Log, ISS Conqueror, Stardate 22042.17

McAdams turned on me! As freaky a feeling as I have ever felt. She had the drop on me, well and truly, a phaser pistol at my back. But she stopped to gloat, letting T'Lorel subdue her with a nerve pinch. We have stowed her in my quarters for now. That no one thought anything odd of me carting the Commander through the ship trussed up like the prize Christmas Turkey makes me wonder even more just what happens in this crazy place.

-

Captain's Log, ISS Stronghold, Stardate 22042.23

I have successfully infiltrated the Computer Core of the ISS Enterprise, and made the necessary changes to the Transporter routines for Captain Eaton's plan. It wasn't easy, as Commander Ajam has been following me quite persistently.

-

Captain's Log, ISS Conqueror, Stardate 22042.28

All set! Now we just need to get to the transporter room.

I was able to get to the deck beneath the transporter room and carry out modifications to the energiser coil, splicing in a set of monothelide crystal fragments into the process. This should allow it to tap into the subspace distortions in a controlled manner.

-

Captain's Log, ISS Enterprise, Stardate 22042.31

We are nearly out of time. I have been keeping the crew preoccupied while Eaton and T'Lorel carry out their work, but I've attracted too much attention! I've been placed in the brig, of all things, but Dr Asurva. She considered killing me outright, but apparently there is a modification to the "Agony Booth" she has been waiting to test out. But I think I know how to override this force field and bust out.

-

Captain's Log, USS Enterprise, Stardate 22042.8

We are all safely back in our home dimension after a raucous, running fight through the corridors of ISS Enterprise. As I made my escape, T'Lorel and Eaton came to 'rescue' me. Well, at that stage the gig was well and truly up. Captain Asurva wanted all of our heads, and the crew seemed happy to oblige! Thankfully, I know this ship inside, outside, backwards, and frontwards. We made our way through a series of jefferies tubes, maintenance paths, and in one case had to take a risk traversing a turbolift shaft. But we are safely back, even if I am no longer looking at my crew in quite the same way.

-

Captain's Log, USS Enterprise, Stardate 22047.3

I have returned to Earth Orbit, just in time to witness the launch of the brand new USS Miracht from the San Francisco Fleet Yards, a sixth Excelsior, and fourth Explorer Corps vessel. Coinciding as it does with the end of our Five Year Missions, it promises to be the start of a new and amazing chapter in Starfleet.

Computer, End Log

=================================================================

Five Year Mission of USS Enterprise is complete (2301.Q1 - 2305.Q4)

Five Year Mission of USS Courageous is complete (2301.Q1 - 2305.Q4)

Five Year Mission of USS Sarek is complete (2301.Q1 - 2305.Q4)


=================================================================
 
Ah, the obligatory Mirror Universe Episode.

Edit: And another affiliate!
 
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@OneirosTheWriter , I've notices a major problem with the New Orleans. Essentially, it's Galaxy generation. That puts it around the late 2350s at the earliest. The easiest solution is to swap it with the Saber.

The bigger overall problem we have in terms of ships is that we've essentially entered a canonical "dark-age" when is comes to Starfleet ship design. From what I've managed to gather, Prime Starfleet doesn't produce a single new ship design until the 2330s. That means that we more or less HAVE to resort to making our own designs in the mid term.

My take on the Constellation is that they are fundamentally flawed ships. To quote Picard, the Stargazer was "an overworked, underpowered vessel that was always on the verge of flying apart at the seams." I honestly have no god damn clue WTF the original designers were on when they came up with it, but we're stuck with it. It should say something that the only other time we see another ship with quad nacelles is as one of the floating tombstones at the Wolf 359 graveyard.

If you want to get meta, what we're having to deal with is that the CBS studio modelers and writers put absolutely no thought into their kitbashing or background writing.
 
@OmegaS
Take a look at the Saber's statline. It's a stock Centaur +1 defense. Yes, it's dirt-cheap resource wise, but it's the same as the Centaur crew-wise. If Oneiros swapped it and the New Orleans class we'd either design our own or simply use Refit Centaurs till we got the next step.
One last hurrah of the T'Lorel Maneuver!

And what's this, they found themselves in a parallel dimension for a while?
Ye old Mirror Universe episode.
 
Ahh, Mirror Universe shenanigans, no piece of Star Trek is complete without it :D

On the other hand, these uniforms aren't actually that bad. I had no idea T'Lorel had that kind of figure.
Never change, Blue Kirk :lol

Apparently here I am famous for orbit-to-ground desolation of cities. "T'Lorel the Demolisher".
And some things are the same in both universes! :lol
 
Oh, hey, the Terran Empire's still around? I guess Mirror!Spock hasn't gotten around to overthrowing them with peacefulness yet.

And with the Indorians becoming affiliates we don't really need to spend a diplomacy push on them this turn. The Sydraxians maybe.
 
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