We would have noticed what was wrong a LONG time ago if the Lecarre impersonating the ambassador had done anything other than carry out our own orders. I'm pretty sure the Lecarre agent was just passively ferrying information back home

I'm sure that was part of the mission, but I doubt that was the only part of the mission. As an ambassador, he's in a unique position to sow doubt or provide for malcontents, like the anti-vaxers that tried to mine us...

The catch 22 of having someone in a high position is that you only get one shot at really using that high position, so odds are that spy followed the letter of his orders and violated the spirit of them... which is completely counter to the UFP and still makes us look bad
 
What makes you think there is any single location we can physically attack to capture "ALL THE SPIES?" Why would the Lecarre have any single central base conveniently labeled "This is where we keep all our secret intel and surgically alter all our infiltrators!"

Given what's been written about the Lecarre, it actually wouldn't be hugely surprising to discover their paranoia has reached KGB levels demanding One Big Facility that can be guarded as closely as possible. But it would not be a convenient target for a retaliatory strike because it'd probably be within three kilometers of the capital building.

That said, retaliation to this by destroying a listening post or the like would probably be appropriate. We could even hire some Yrillians to do it. I mean, it's a long way for them to go, but having a Yrillian work crew on the Walking Tour of the Federation is probably not a terrible thing for relations.

EDIT: And we can be reasonably sure they're not compromised. It's an even longer way for the Lecarre to go.
 
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Whoops, went off half cocked
What makes you think there is any single location we can physically attack to capture "ALL THE SPIES?" Why would the Lecarre have any single central base conveniently labeled "This is where we keep all our secret intel and surgically alter all our infiltrators!"
First, that 'plan' was the product of about 6 to 7 man minutes of work at most. Second, I know they won't, but hitting one could lead us to some of their contacts... and most importantly disrupts part of their operations. The idea is to, if not immediately then eventually, make HUMINT ops against us not worth the effort, either because we gank their hard work or disrupt their networks for a fraction of the cost of setting them up.


Now, if the FDS says they want our help responding to the Lecarre, I'm all for it
 
1. It won't, but if we don't then we'll send a message to the Quadrant that the Federation will do nothing if you assassinate one of our Ambassadors.

2. We can take them. But more seriously, we're already at sorta-war with the Cardassians. They agreed to limit the scope of the war for a reason, and I doubt they'll expand it just because an annoying client state bit off more than it could chew.

We don't need to raid their colonies or anything like that. Just send a few ships into their home system, blow up unmanned satellites and outposts, and read them the riot act.
Waitaminute. Remember that the main thing Cardassia got out of the Treaty of Celos was our promise not to make diplomatic approaches to their affiliates. The Cardassians cared about that enough to concede some fairly important things and to completely abandon their pre-Celos policy of violently harassing us with Sydraxian raids and such.

Why do you think they cared?

Because they're having very real trouble maintaining a coalition/empire strong enough to oppose us. They rely on the combination of Lecarre spies, and Sydraxian and Dawiar military threats to our flanks, potentially bolstered by the Yrillians, to balance out the greater size and economic power of the Federation. Those props hold up their empire like the legs of a table. Anything that threatens to break one of those legs could potentially send the whole thing tipping over. So they're not going to react well to the idea of us going on some kind of crusade against the Lecarre. If we hit them hard enough to matter, we're also hitting them hard enough to threaten the only thing about the Treaty of Celos that gives them any benefit for respecting the treaty.

That particular Oberth is so good that it's more effective and tougher than a Centaur-A, a ship five times its size. It compares favorably with a Connie-B for goodness sakes.

We would have to promote her to the Cheron, an Excelsior, or the EC if she wanted an upgrade.
Uh... huh. I don't remember when T'Mir got kicked up to a Veteran ship. Wow. That is actually quite badass, although we can't ever risk that ship in combat without a high likelihood of losing enough crew to render the ship ineffective.

Hey, it worked for Rogue One!
:p

The Empire had no incentive to hide where it kept its secure datacenter, since the facility was virtually unattackable. Even then, as I understand it, it took a fair amount of captured inside information by Rebel infiltrators and sympathizers to even know that the Death Star plans would be kept there. By contrast, the Lecarre have every reason to hide their main datacenters because they know we could theoretically blitz them at any time, and we have zero or very few insiders, infiltrators, or sympathizers among their people.

No contact with the rest of the diplomatic service, family, friends, business associates, ... ? No one had questions? For three years? Where did the Lecarre get this amount of background info? Telepaths? Obsidian Order? ... ?
I'm guessing 'telepaths,' since we now know that the Cardassians have at least one affiliate who have empaths and possibly at least a small number of trained telepaths. If so, the synergy between the Lecarre and a bunch of psychics is much more dangerous than either the Lecarre or the psychics would be alone.

Even a few rogue Vulcans willing to do intrusive mind-melds on people the Lecarre wanted to replace, then meld the information into the infiltrator's brain, would be a problem, for instance.

I'm sure that was part of the mission, but I doubt that was the only part of the mission. As an ambassador, he's in a unique position to sow doubt or provide for malcontents, like the anti-vaxers that tried to mine us...

The catch 22 of having someone in a high position is that you only get one shot at really using that high position, so odds are that spy followed the letter of his orders and violated the spirit of them... which is completely counter to the UFP and still makes us look bad
The thing is, the Lecarre must have walked a fine line between doing poorly (to undermine the Federation) and doing so poorly that he'd be investigated and either unmasked or forced into retirement and rendered useless as an intelligence source for the Ashalla Pact.

I suspect that the infiltrator just put in an 'uninspired' performance, one that might have had FDS officials sighing and going "he's not the chan he used to be." Not an actively sabotage-ey one that would have them going "what the hell is he doing?"

Remember that the main value of a deep cover infiltrator like this is information. The Lecarre are so paranoid and were originally so desperate to learn 'the real deal' about our culture that they were willing to beam suicide teams onto the Sarek to read the computer core. They want to know far more than they want to sabotage us or interfere with us.

It may well be that some level of infiltrate-and-replace behavior is actually normative among Lecarre internal politics because it's the only way organizations can really understand each other- they don't believe in the possibility of connecting with someone you don't have spies on.

Given what's been written about the Lecarre, it actually wouldn't be hugely surprising to discover their paranoia has reached KGB levels demanding One Big Facility that can be guarded as closely as possible. But it would not be a convenient target for a retaliatory strike because it'd probably be within three kilometers of the capital building.
By the same token, it's also very possible that the location we think is their capital and their central heavily guarded intelligence facility is actually a massive decoy that even 99.9% of the Lecarre public has been fooled by, and that the real capital facility is in a very different place, buried far underground, maybe even on a different planet or something.
 
It may well be that some level of infiltrate-and-replace behavior is actually normative among Lecarre internal politics because it's the only way organizations can really understand each other- they don't believe in the possibility of connecting with someone you don't have spies on.
That honestly sounds like the basis for a rather amusing parody.
 
Oh absolutely; there's an entire genre of spy and political comedy that could be created by anyone who really knows all the ins-and-outs of Lecarre society, politics, and mutual infiltration/espionage.

The great tragedy of the Lecarre species is that no one does know the whole story... and even if they did, they wouldn't get the joke.
 
That honestly sounds like the basis for a rather amusing parody.

A Lecarre Rom-Com where a husband and wife are both abducted and replaced by separate agencies, and now both agents are trying to maintain the facade of a normal marriage from what evidence they have around the house while also completing their infiltration mission.
 
There have probably actually been instances within Lecarre society of organizations being 'hollowed out' and continuing to exist only because multiple poorly coordinated organizations were all infiltrating them, with no real members of the original group still existing.

EDIT:

On the other hand, Lecarre society couldn't even exist at all unless there were some kinds of bonds that were actually solid. They wouldn't be able to organize into large governments and so on if the groups responsible for enforcing and organizing law didn't have some way to trust their own agents. So it'd get complicated trying to 'fake' that.
 
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There have probably actually been instances within Lecarre society of organizations being 'hollowed out' and continuing to exist only because multiple poorly coordinated organizations were all infiltrating them, with no real members of the original group still existing.

EDIT:

On the other hand, Lecarre society couldn't even exist at all unless there were some kinds of bonds that were actually solid. They wouldn't be able to organize into large governments and so on if the groups responsible for enforcing and organizing law didn't have some way to trust their own agents. So it'd get complicated trying to 'fake' that.
I've never played it, but Paranoia has a group made up entirely of infiltrators like this.
 
I kinda doubt the lecarre would want to work with telepaths.
That's a good point.

What it comes down to is the sheer super-utility of it, especially if they're Vulcan-esque touch telepaths so you can keep them from just arbitrarily reading your mind at will. As noted, Lecarre spies are vastly more threatening if they have telepath support than if all they have are conventional interrogation techniques. We know there are routes by which the Lecarre could have suborned or gained access to telepath support, so we need to at least seriously consider the possibility in designing our own security protocols.
 
Lacarre Level: when you reach the head position of the organization you were sent to infiltrate and in turn, maintain your cover by sending spies into your ostensible home agency.
 
The Lecarre could infiltrate this thread at any time, and we'd never know. If I ever start asking for incredibly detailed breakdowns of the Federation infrastructure and logistics chains, know that I am no more.
 
We have a backup weapon.

There is one force that has so far never been tested against the Lecarre.

Nash.

She already kicked reason to the curb and went beyond the impossible at 33 Fujit, to the extent that she reached through the fourth wall and crashed the combat engine to save her crew.

If the Lecarre get truly out of control, she can find a way to save us.
 
We have a backup weapon.

There is one force that has so far never been tested against the Lecarre.

Nash.

She already kicked reason to the curb and went beyond the impossible at 33 Fujit, to the extent that she reached through the fourth wall and crashed the combat engine to save her crew.

If the Lecarre get truly out of control, she can find a way to save us.

I bet the Cardies are still having nightmares about that one.
 
This sounds like an excuse to get Nash into a Black Widow style catsuit and do cool spy type stuff. I approve.
 
We have a backup weapon.

There is one force that has so far never been tested against the Lecarre.

Nash.

She already kicked reason to the curb and went beyond the impossible at 33 Fujit, to the extent that she reached through the fourth wall and crashed the combat engine to save her crew.

If the Lecarre get truly out of control, she can find a way to save us.
Nash as James Bond?
 
We have a backup weapon.

There is one force that has so far never been tested against the Lecarre.

Nash.

She already kicked reason to the curb and went beyond the impossible at 33 Fujit, to the extent that she reached through the fourth wall and crashed the combat engine to save her crew.

If the Lecarre get truly out of control, she can find a way to save us.

I know the event in question, but what do you mean crashed the combat engine?
 
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