Because it was a thing we were explicitly warned might happen when were first introduced to the whole Ked Paddah / Licori affair?
We were warned that the Ked Paddah
might be fighting the Gaeni, were they not already fighting the Licori. However, the Gaeni are now close affiliates of a much larger and more powerful nation, one which is likely to absorb them into its ranks within the next decade or less. This is likely to affect the Ked Paddah's calculations, to the point where I deem a Ked Paddah attack on the Gaeni unlikely.
So no, we were never told "after the Ked Paddah beat the Licori, assuming they do, they will automatically attack the Gaeni next."
Point. The Romulans aren't in that wierd spot starfleet is where a main constraint on our capability is political. That was a pragmatic AND sentimental decision for us. And they don't have anything capable of that kind of mission other than their brand spanking new Heavy Warbird, and they don't have any kind of institutional experience. While I'd argue that there's certainly pragmatic value in getting an in with the people who make FTL-capable Starbase Vs with integral capital shipyards, it's probably not worth it here for them.
I agree with your analysis that the Romulans aren't so likely to send ships with the Kadeshi. However, I would like to point out that the Romulans ARE in a situation where one of their main constraints is political. The difference is that their political
system is different and has different weak spots. It's an oligarchical system with a high rate of intrigue and a high level of deadliness for people involved in politics, plus a powerful secret police force.
If we were running Romulan Quest, we'd have
different political mechanics but we'd still have them. In place of militarization we might have, dunno... Stability or something. Where we constantly have to tread a line between doing seemingly advantageous things that will make the Tal Shiar and the Senate worry about our political ambition, versus curtailing the capabilities of the fleet in ways that will make us seem more 'safe' to those organizations.
In my opinion a lot of the problems with the Cardassians stems from the fact that we are both "unused" to each other and lack any established connections meaning that we have a very hard time relating to each other (leading in turn to mistrust and antagonism). However this is already starting to disappear with both sides getting a feel for each other, establishing clear schemata for dealing with each other and solving things like the unclear border bit by bit (if in a rather radical manner when we take the Gabriel zone as an example) which in my eyes should result in us/the Fed viewing them as far less of a threat simply because they are no longer an unknown quantity. The same like we do still respect the Klingons but don't live in a constant fear of them attacking us.
The thing is, the Federation
did live in constant (justified) fear of Klingon attack for almost all of the 2200s.
Relations with the Klingons were extremely antagonistic during the TOS era and remained antagonistic through the movie era, right up until the events of
The Undiscovered Country in 2293. Even as recently as 2285, the Klingons were
terrified of the Genesis Device, demanded information on it, and were prepared to blow up Federation ships on covert missions aimed at obtaining a copy.
Things were extremely tense and in current game terms the Threat Level was very high... right up until "the wall came down in space." And that wasn't brought on by the Federation and the Klingons suddenly deciding to like each other, either. It was a result of a huge industrial accident that gutted the Klingon homeworld and economy, making them literally
unable to continue competing with the Federation on such aggressive terms.
Unless something like the Praxis disaster happens to the Cardassians and
forces them to stop trying to compete with us on a Cold War footing, the threat they pose to the Federation is unlikely to decline much over time.
@OneirosTheWriter If we can't have cloaks, can we use hologram tech to emulate the Red Alert Mirage System or make a space submarine that 'dives' into subspace like the
UX-01 in Yamato 2199?
Since there is no indication that such things are possible in Star Trek, I'm guessing 'no.' Our ships
do have a variety of tricks they can use to muffle their sensor signatures, hide in natural space phenomena, or sneak up on an enemy undetected, though.
Sure, why not. Maybe we can make a deal with the Romulans and stick a cloaking device on it like the Defiant.
I kind of doubt we'll be able to accomplish that, unless it's under very similar conditions. In other words, we're building the cloaked ship to investigate events
in a whole different quadrant of the galaxy, to learn about something that potentially threatens both us and the Romulans equally.
Right now, the Federation and Romulans have a state of... familiarity... that is better than relations ever were in canon. But I think a lot of that willingness to talk and trust
a little on the Romulans' part comes from the knowledge that they have a few significant military advantages, chief among them being the cloaking device... and that we are too busy worrying about Cardassia to be a direct threat to them. It would require something very, very extreme to drive the Romulans close enough to the Federation diplomatically that they'd be willing to share cloaking technology.
Oh yes, that's been my biggest concern about the whole thing for a while.
To be fair, we're doing a lot of mentat trash talking but help from a mentat saved a Betazoid colony not that long ago. So they have their positive sides as well.
I don't want to force the Licori to stop having mentats at all. I
do want to make sure they don't recklessly endanger the rest of the galaxy.
There is a line here that we are playing Starfleet, not the Federation. There comes a point where that sort of thing shouldn't be under player control.
We've already had issues because we are unable to request diplomacy to neutrals. I feel dealing with people that you don't want to join is more of a Starfleet role than trying to expand the Federation, which really has little to do with Starfleet at all.
To respond to Briefvoice, I agree that it shouldn't be under player control, but it should clearly be under
someone's control. And since we're playing the organization responsible for the Federation's security, we need to be able to take reasonable steps to avert threats blowing up in our faces due to inaction on our part (e.g. what happened with the Dawiar).
Oneiros is clearly taking steps in this direction by having the FDS more openly and actively seek contact with neutral outside parties, investigating them, and telling us what we're learning from them. I think that's very good of him, and it's helping us avoid what was becoming a rather toxic situation a few in-game years ago. It wasn't that long ago when we were having to burn political capital in order to twist the Council's arm just to get them to acknowledge that they needed to deal with basic issues of security and external diplomacy
at all.
And that told me nothing but their name.
@anon_user was much more helpful.
Well, we don't know much at all at this point. Our sole interaction with them is in 2313 Q2 M3. That's it.
Frankly, in game time, June 2313 wasn't that long ago. It's entirely possible that even if the Council and diplomats were
frantically trying to learn more about the imperialist space bugs, they would still not have had time to compile useful reports on them. We shouldn't expect a wealth of random information falling into our laps about totally new alien species we've never met before.
I see a lot of comments revolving around the lack of a neutrality mechanic.
Thing is... As the Feds, our primary hat revolves around diplomacy. We broker peace and bridge the gap between peoples as different as the Risans and the Amarki, and both human and Vulcan. We assimilate and adapt new peoples to the Federation, but the Federation as a whole encompasses a great deal of very different cultures in a loose framework for mutual support.
Perhaps the lack of a neutrality mechanic is because our "faction perk" so to speak is that we don't need one. All peoples, in time, may become one of us. E Pluribus Unum; Ex Astris, Scientia.
I like this idea, but it's kind of impractical for us to try to apply it
while at the same time dealing with hostile alien empires that like to vassalize other species and use them to hem in our borders (the Cardassians) plus various species that have grown too big and strong to be absorbed (the Romulans and Klingons). Furthermore, it's predicated on the idea that the 'manifest destiny' of the Federation is to expand rapidly in all directions with few or no limits- which is a political stance shared by only a
minority of the Federation, namely the minority that backs the Expansionist Party.
We shouldn't confuse the Expansionist version of the Federation dream for the
only version of the Federation dream.
Or if we're down to 12pp we could save it till next turn.
Edit: And I think we need more aux berths more than we need regular ones right now. We're not berth limited ATM, the council's getting irritated about the freighter issue, and we still owe the pacifists a bunch of hospital ships.
Building a huge swarm of auxiliary berths right now is likely to put us in a situation where in 10-15 years we have no idea what to do with all our extra auxiliary berths. Let's at least try to get a reasonably accurate picture of the construction levels in the Amarkia Yard
at its present size before we start planning expansions.
If you honestly believe that material costs do not factor into political costs of things we request from the Council then you should probably just stop and think about what you're saying for a bit, because it's utterly ridiculous. They have to.
Night, I'm not sure how to make this more clear to you, but that "+5 per subsequent berth" means
exactly the opposite of what you're arguing it means. We already know this, because it's already happened to us at other shipyards.
It means that the first berth of a type will cost X, the second costs X+5, and so on. It does NOT mean we can build one berth for cost X and then get unlimited extra berths for a flat rate of five per berth. Okay? We already know this. Go back and read the discussions surrounding past snakepits.
I thought long and hard about a KBZ starbase, but here's the problem. We can't build one around Caldonia unless it becomes a member, and the best candidate for building one absent that is pretty close to Caldonia. So it seems like we're stuck waiting. I also thought about building one at Indoria, but it's literally right next to the CBZ starbase, and there doesn't seem any point having two so close together.
There's been discussion of building a starbase at Shrantet or Biroth, as I recall. There are arguments for doing that. It'd provide a bit more security for Risa. It'd secure an area that's fairly insecure overall at the moment (either the Dawiar OR these imperalist bug dudes could hit it). It'd help us get a clue about how far the Klingons are exploring/expanding to spinward (which we don't really have much information on). And it'd
NOT be redundant to do that and fortify Caledonian space, because those areas are actually quite far apart.
