Okay, which of our current 5YM captains are "truly good captains" and which are not? I'm interested in your take.

Of our current 5YM captains? Honestly, only Mbeki really stands out at the moment from the information on the status page. The reason I'm debating this is it was brought up, rather than because I think Saavik would be any better than her successor. Is there a list somewhere of available and current captains and their stats? (Such as Nerve, Aggression, etc.)

Mbeki' current bonuses are so well suited to fieldwork in the explorer corps it's almost absurd, and yes, I know those bonuses would translate to similarly nice bonuses as a commodore. Simply pushing him off at the end of a 5ym because of a policy, rather than because an up and coming candidate looks really promising, feels like a waste.

I'm not advocating for keeping the captains on regardless of circumstance, but rather for us to be a little more amenable to keeping them in the chair should they prove to be well suited to it. Moving them out and up is useful and nets us spectacular officers and opportunities. Just look at the events with Nash and the Amarki; however, those same events were only possible because of the events that happened during the 5YMs. These events build connections and the better and more experienced the captain, the more beneficial these events are likely to turn out.
 
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yeah, but technological delvopment can make certain social models nonviable. There is a reason all the monarchies in Europe lost power around the same time.

I would be very careful with such a definitive statement - technological development might put certain regime (government) types at a (dis)advantage but I find it very hard to say it makes them non-viable... And not only didn't the monarchies in Europe lose all power around the same I for one would argue that the the fact that the "authoritarian bloc" lost both WW2 (especially the first) and that the major winner of said wars, the US, was democratic had a lot to with the final disappearance of this type of government in europe.
 
Mbeki has already gotten his second five-year mission, it's just that the first was cut tragically short by the destruction of the Miracht. We're already keeping him until some time in 2318 or so, so I don't think even more time past that is likely to be called for. Someone as good as him is bound to come up in the near future.

Giving him ten years in Odyssey on top of a year or two in Miracht just seems excessive.

...

Briefvoice earlier suggested a guideline that I think is pretty good, and that does a lot to explain Kirk. It goes something like this. We could even call it the 'Kirk Rule.'

If you want a second full five-year mission in the Explorer Corps, you need to save the Federation during a major crisis.

Nash saved the Federation during the Biophage crisis. Straak arguably saved us, or at least did a lot to prevent war with Cardassia, by tracking down the Kadak-Tor and giving us confidence about the ship's whereabouts.

Note that, like Evil Overlord Rule #68, this offer is good for one time only. If you want to be re-elected to the Explorer Corps again, you'd better save the Federation again.
 
Mbeki has already gotten his second five-year mission, it's just that the first was cut tragically short by the destruction of the Miracht. We're already keeping him until some time in 2318 or so, so I don't think even more time past that is likely to be called for. Someone as good as him is bound to come up in the near future.

Giving him ten years in Odyssey on top of a year or two in Miracht just seems excessive.

...

Briefvoice earlier suggested a guideline that I think is pretty good, and that does a lot to explain Kirk. It goes something like this. We could even call it the 'Kirk Rule.'

If you want a second full five-year mission in the Explorer Corps, you need to save the Federation during a major crisis.

Nash saved the Federation during the Biophage crisis. Straak arguably saved us, or at least did a lot to prevent war with Cardassia, by tracking down the Kadak-Tor and giving us confidence about the ship's whereabouts.

Note that, like Evil Overlord Rule #68, this offer is good for one time only. If you want to be re-elected to the Explorer Corps again, you'd better save the Federation again.

I don't really like that rule personally. I don't think saving the Federation should be a requirement for a second 5YM. Saavik I don't think has achieved that on S'Harien, but I'd be fine giving her a second tour. I think if a captain has a solid track record and is relatively young, they can be considered for a second mission if they want. Similarly, even though Straak arguably prevented war again at Celos I don't want to offer him a third shift, because after ten years it's time to let new talent have a chance and have him contribute to Starfleet on a higher level.
 
So running through some possible Ainsworth replacements. I didn't really look much at time in service for these folks because I barely have the time to do this, but it might raise or lower the tiers of some candidates or disqualify them all together.

Tier One Candidates
These officers have minimum medium in both politics and diplomacy, a good description, and good Nerve or Aggression. In order of what I think would be best to worst:
Commodore Victoria Eaton
Current Posting: TF 1, Anti-Slavery Task Force
Rule-Abiding: High
Aggression: High
Nerve: High
Diplomacy: Medium
Politics: High
The BAE, the Queen, we'll replace Ainsworth with herself but better. De

Commodore T'Lorel
Current Posting: Commander, Ground Force, Anti-Slavery Task Force
Rule-Abiding: Medium
Aggression: Medium
Nerve: High
Diplomacy: High
Politics: Medium
I'm sure T'Lorel will be happy to be back in space after the long grind of the Syndicate ground campaign. Is this a metaphor for the thread at large? YOU DECIDE.

Commodore Michel Thuir
Current Posting: Operations Officer, Starfleet Tactical Field Command
Rule-Abiding: Medium
Aggression: High
Nerve: Medium
Diplomacy: Medium
Politics: High
An officer who has been proven in dangerous situations, with experience in command during the Biophage, and who has completed a Five Year Mission.
The Man You Want Running Things if you're a redshirt. Maybe good for the uh, casualties we're gonna take. I'd put him higher but I'm not sure he's sufficient TIR?

I actually consider these three basically tied. It's a question of if you want Ainsworth But Better or a different approach altogether.

Rear Admiral Sotak
Current Posting: Commander, Starbase 2 [Vulcan]
Rule-Abiding: High
Aggression: Low
Nerve: Medium
Diplomacy: High
Politics: Medium
The longserving commander of Starbase 2 in Vulcan, Rear Admiral Sotak is a solid and talented commander. He had considerable diplomatic experience as a Captain and Commodore.
Seems like a Revak kinda guy but he could direct more aggressive commanders.

Rear Admiral Laura Mendoza
Current Posting: Deputy Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command
Rule-Abiding: Medium
Aggression: Low
Nerve: Medium
Diplomacy: Medium
Politics: High
Low Aggression but high Politics and decent Nerve.

Rear Admiral Nyota Uhura
Current Posting: Commander, Anti-Slavery Task Force
Rule-Abiding: Low
Aggression: High
Nerve: High
Diplomacy: High
Politics: Medium
She'd be at the top but unfortunately I don't think we can get access to her.

Tier 2 Candidates
These folks might have low politics, low aggression/nerve, or a description that suggests they won't be quite as ready as the above.
Commodore Nash ka'Sharren
Current Posting: Starfleet Task Force 2, Anti-Slavery Task Force
Rule-Abiding: Low
Aggression: High
Nerve: High
Diplomacy: High
Politics: Low
High Aggression, High Diplomacy, very well-liked with the Apiata and Amarki. Low politics could make us pay PP through the nose, though. Also, I don't think she's ready for an RA posting yet, but I could be wrong. She might also be kinda stuck with ASTF2 due to the political situation there.

Rear Admiral John Harriman
Current Posting: Director, Starfleet Theory Command, Starfleet Tactical Command
Rule-Abiding: High
Aggression: Medium
Nerve: Medium
Diplomacy: Medium
Politics: Low

Commodore Tomas Meyer
Current Posting: Commander, Ferasa Sector Fleet
Rule-Abiding: High
Aggression: Low
Nerve: Medium
Diplomacy: Medium
Politics: High
A talented bureaucrat and political operator, I feel that Captain Meyer requires more space side command and would rather see him promoted to a home sector command than further desk assignments.
I'm not sure how dated that description is or how long Meyer's been serving in the role he's at, but I'm not sure if he'd be ready to take on an RA seat in the GBZ. Minus that and his low Aggression he's pretty okay.

Rear Admiral T'Faer
Current Posting: Commander, Starbase 9 [Lapycorias]
Rule-Abiding: High
Aggression: Low
Nerve: Medium
Diplomacy: Medium
Politics: Low
Low aggression might balance out low politics. I'd rather go with the other two, sorry T'Faer.

Tier 3
Workable but I think there might be some serious experience or stats deficiencies.

Commodore Thraan th'Marlaas
Current Posting: Chief of Staff, Starfleet Shipyard Operations
Rule-Abiding: Low
Aggression: High
Nerve: Medium
Diplomacy: Medium
Politics: Medium
A long serving officer in Shipyard Operations, I believe he is chafing with a long series of planetside assignments, and would like to see his talents verified through a different command before pushing him towards a Shipyard Command.
Sounds more like a shipyard, less a fighting guy. Decent stat block though, very balanced.

Commodore T'Lam
Current Posting: Commander, Rigel Sector
Rule-Abiding: Medium
Aggression: Low
Nerve: Low
Diplomacy: High
Politics: Medium
Low Aggro and Nerve? Hmm.
Others were disqualified if they seemed really unsuited in multiple areas or were noted as being more groomed away from combat. Also: if their diplomacy was the same as Ainsworth's.

EDIT: added in some candidates from the GBZ vote.
 
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Meanwhile I don't want to give anyone a second 5YM because I like everyone in the queue way too much.

Now, I'd suggest Saavik not go for immediate promotion, I'm sure she can find an Excelsior that sees plenty of action in the GBZ to command after her 5YM is up.
 
As noted, we have reason to think Saavik might not be eligible for promotion to commodore, and serving as captain of a non-Explorer Corps ship may be seen as a demotion.

It's kind of a thorny problem. :(

I don't really like that rule personally. I don't think saving the Federation should be a requirement for a second 5YM. Saavik I don't think has achieved that on S'Harien, but I'd be fine giving her a second tour. I think if a captain has a solid track record and is relatively young, they can be considered for a second mission if they want. Similarly, even though Straak arguably prevented war again at Celos I don't want to offer him a third shift, because after ten years it's time to let new talent have a chance and have him contribute to Starfleet on a higher level.
Well, I view it as more of a guideline than a strict rule*. Basically the point is, "if we're going to re-up this person there should be a VERY good reason." Either "narratively we love them," "their stat bonus is absolutely insane and better than the competition by a significant margin," or both.

*(Although Straak personally will be utterly miserable in any job that doesn't involve rocks; if he doesn't remain an explorer corps captain, I'd much rather make him a research team or something).
 
The ship doctrines have less combat stuff and more general use items. What we need to do is start on offensive doctrine next research cycle as that is likely to have more combat stuff.
The offensive doctrines have some things that are useful in a battle, but that's mostly in the highest tier, a long way away, and nothing so amazing that It's an obvious thing to beeline for. We still don't have the actual techs and their costs, just the draft from the Ship Design thread, but without admiral bonus getting any of the T3 projects is probably going to take at least 15 years even if we put the Games & Theory division on it next year. We haven't decided
Our offense Doctrine Team is also currently doing Cardassian analysis, and our other good analysis team is committed to Fleet Design Doctrine. Best option is to simply purchase an Offense Doctrine Team next snakepit.
We could of course always get a new Offensive Doctrine Tech team.
Perhaps, but a newbie team is going to progress slower, even if they start earlier. I expect the Games & Theory Division to complete tier 2 of Cardassian research about 2315 (I'm assuming some significant event bonuses, but that seems fairly safe). Alternatively if we don't want to pause Cardassian research even for a moment the Tiger team is going to be free by 2318 even without further event bonuses (I'm expecting 2317). So a new team next year would gain us at most four years head start, probably just two, and if they are skill 2 they would finish the initial tech in 2319 without boosts, just like G&TD starting in 2316 would.

Sure, more doctrine teams would be useful for researching multiple branches concurrently, but we can worry about that in 2320, it shouldn't be urgent now.

On a vaguely related note, what do people think about shifting Generic Team 5 from Klingon Research to one of the SIGINT/COMSEC projects in Communications (probably 2320s Signal Intercepts) next year? Currently they'd be set to become Foreign Analysis/Fleet Design Doctrine specialists, which would make them exact duplicates of the Tiger Team and fairly similar to the Games & Theory division, but if they switch and become Foreign Analysis/Communications instead they'd obviously be a Starfleet Intelligence SIGINT/COMSEC specialist team, which sounds a lot more appealing narratively than a third team belonging to Starfleet Tactical Command.

Mechanically one of the main reasons for setting them on Klingon Research in the first place was to benefit from the previous Admiral bonus, which is in Communications now. At their current rate they'd probably need until the early/mid 2320s to complete the first tier of Klingon Research. Not only is that a long time to wait, it would also be too late to earn a different second specialization than Fleet Design, which is likely not going to be very valuable (we might choose to research the other Fleet Design doctrines as well for some reason or other later, but not for quite a while and we already have 3 other qualified teams anyway). If Uhura stays on as VADM long enough 2320s Signal Intercepts would be done in 2321, and if they go back to Klingon Research as a graduated team they should wrap up the tier 1 techs by 2325, so not even all that much later, assuming no other team stepped in in the mean time.
 
The flip side is that having a commander who's less of a fighting officer will also hurt us in the long run; it's kind of a toss-up in my opinion.

It wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for us to have a more defensive-minded commander up there who would engage in fewer fights like Deva IX, and more fights like the escort mission Saratoga got chewed up on.
 
The flip side is that having a commander who's less of a fighting officer will also hurt us in the long run; it's kind of a toss-up in my opinion.

It wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for us to have a more defensive-minded commander up there who would engage in fewer fights like Deva IX, and more fights like the escort mission Saratoga got chewed up on.
In the Tier One category there are several officers with High aggression, like Ainsworth. Thiur and Eaton have that and are in my top 3; I just don't know if we can put them in charge.
 
The offensive doctrines have some things that are useful in a battle, but that's mostly in the highest tier, a long way away, and nothing so amazing that It's an obvious thing to beeline for. We still don't have the actual techs and their costs, just the draft from the Ship Design thread, but without admiral bonus getting any of the T3 projects is probably going to take at least 15 years even if we put the Games & Theory division on it next year. We haven't decided


Perhaps, but a newbie team is going to progress slower, even if they start earlier. I expect the Games & Theory Division to complete tier 2 of Cardassian research about 2315 (I'm assuming some significant event bonuses, but that seems fairly safe). Alternatively if we don't want to pause Cardassian research even for a moment the Tiger team is going to be free by 2318 even without further event bonuses (I'm expecting 2317). So a new team next year would gain us at most four years head start, probably just two, and if they are skill 2 they would finish the initial tech in 2319 without boosts, just like G&TD starting in 2316 would.

Sure, more doctrine teams would be useful for researching multiple branches concurrently, but we can worry about that in 2320, it shouldn't be urgent now.

On a vaguely related note, what do people think about shifting Generic Team 5 from Klingon Research to one of the SIGINT/COMSEC projects in Communications (probably 2320s Signal Intercepts) next year? Currently they'd be set to become Foreign Analysis/Fleet Design Doctrine specialists, which would make them exact duplicates of the Tiger Team and fairly similar to the Games & Theory division, but if they switch and become Foreign Analysis/Communications instead they'd obviously be a Starfleet Intelligence SIGINT/COMSEC specialist team, which sounds a lot more appealing narratively than a third team belonging to Starfleet Tactical Command.

Mechanically one of the main reasons for setting them on Klingon Research in the first place was to benefit from the previous Admiral bonus, which is in Communications now. At their current rate they'd probably need until the early/mid 2320s to complete the first tier of Klingon Research. Not only is that a long time to wait, it would also be too late to earn a different second specialization than Fleet Design, which is likely not going to be very valuable (we might choose to research the other Fleet Design doctrines as well for some reason or other later, but not for quite a while and we already have 3 other qualified teams anyway). If Uhura stays on as VADM long enough 2320s Signal Intercepts would be done in 2321, and if they go back to Klingon Research as a graduated team they should wrap up the tier 1 techs by 2325, so not even all that much later, assuming no other team stepped in in the mean time.
I'm not OK, at all, with pausing Cardassian Analysis, and we'll want the tiger team to handle whatever whatever The Mission Unending unlocks. I see the Games and Theory Division and the Tiger team as being essentially "locked" because there's no situation in the forseeable future where we want to stop lone ranger or Cardassia research.

The generic shift is a decent idea. However, we need more foriegn analysis teams ANYWAY. I'd rather like to have full-time teams on analysis for all major powers, espeically since that's supposed to give extra intel reports. I say supposed to because we're getting Romulan specific reports, but not Klingon ones.
 
Perhaps, but a newbie team is going to progress slower, even if they start earlier. I expect the Games & Theory Division to complete tier 2 of Cardassian research about 2315 (I'm assuming some significant event bonuses, but that seems fairly safe).

I just want to note that it's unclear to me if foreign analysis works quite the same way as other technologies. There don't seem to be any discrete slides where you have to finish all the techs in s slide and then and only then can you go on to the new one. It seems more like there are the four types of techs at different tiers, and finishing one tier of a tech automatically opens the next tier of that tech within the same slide.

On a vaguely related note, what do people think about shifting Generic Team 5 from Klingon Research to one of the SIGINT/COMSEC projects in Communications (probably 2320s Signal Intercepts) next year? Currently they'd be set to become Foreign Analysis/Fleet Design Doctrine specialists, which would make them exact duplicates of the Tiger Team and fairly similar to the Games & Theory division, but if they switch and become Foreign Analysis/Communications instead they'd obviously be a Starfleet Intelligence SIGINT/COMSEC specialist team, which sounds a lot more appealing narratively than a third team belonging to Starfleet Tactical Command.

Works for me.

I'm not OK, at all, with pausing Cardassian Analysis, and we'll want the tiger team to handle whatever whatever The Mission Unending unlocks. I see the Games and Theory Division and the Tiger team as being essentially "locked" because there's no situation in the forseeable future where we want to stop lone ranger or Cardassia research.

I don't think there is anything after The Mission Unending. That's it, capstone of the Doctrine tree, done forever. Unless regular technologies, Doctrines seem be designed as trees that can be completed. So if the Tiger Team is not "locked" then they can replace Theory Division on Cardassian Analysis and Theory Division moves on to Offensive Doctrine.

However, we need more foriegn analysis teams ANYWAY. I'd rather like to have full-time teams on analysis for all major powers, espeically since that's supposed to give extra intel reports. I say supposed to because we're getting Romulan specific reports, but not Klingon ones.

There is a specific technology that gives one extra report, which we unlocked for Romulans and not for Klingons. It's not a matter of whether there's a team on them or not.
 
I feel like Saavik should get a second 5YM because it feels like she's just now coming into her own. Also, putting her in a non EC ship or a captain's desk job feels like too much of a demotion for 'You did good, but not exceptional. Have this unimportant placeholder job till you have enough time in grade to move up'.
 
I just want to note that it's unclear to me if foreign analysis works quite the same way as other technologies. There don't seem to be any discrete slides where you have to finish all the techs in s slide and then and only then can you go on to the new one. It seems more like there are the four types of techs at different tiers, and finishing one tier of a tech automatically opens the next tier of that tech within the same slide.
There are no projects with tiers, but the techs do have tiers will rollover in the same way all techs before the change to tech trees had, and we can get rewards for completing all techs of a tier. Finishing all techs of a certain tier makes for a good stopping point if you want to switch the team to something else.
There is a specific technology that gives one extra report, which we unlocked for Romulans and not for Klingons. It's not a matter of whether there's a team on them or not.
That wasn't a reward for a specific technology but for progressing far enough to (mostly) finish the first tier, it said something like "for advances in foreign analysis" in the first steering post and was never mentioned as explicit reward in any Ex Astra results post.
 
As noted, we have reason to think Saavik might not be eligible for promotion to commodore, and serving as captain of a non-Explorer Corps ship may be seen as a demotion.

Well, maybe, but I think it depends on what ship. If we post her to an Excelsior that's effectively Ainsworth's Pimp Hand, that's not much of a demotion on balance. Hence why I said I'd be up for sending her to the GBZ to finish out her captaincy.
 
To be fair, Kumari is the next best thing to an Explorer Corps ship, has served alongside them in the past during the Biophage crisis, and her current captain has (as I recall) been in command there for several years. Rotating them out would be an appealing option.

On the other hand...

It's like, I feel really weird telling Saavik "sorry, we're sticking you in a position of lesser importance for a few years because you don't have enough seniority in grade to promote." At the same time, I feel really weird telling her "we're keeping you on this ship because we can't think of anywhere else to put you." And then there's the little winged Seruk on my shoulder pointing out that since Saavik's last billet was as XO on Sarek and we're pretty sure she spent a lot of her 23rd century career on the Enterprise, she may have a bit more of her total career time in the Explorer Corps than is good for her, in which case it actually might be a good idea to give her a planetside staff posting as a captain for a few years before promoting her to flag rank.

If only we could get a bonus out of her like we did from Eaton and T'Lorel that'd sound great.
 
Right now, Saavik is an excellent, if not exceptional, Officer. She's not a Kirk, Nash, or Straak, but these last few reports, and with that bonus P she just got, it feels like that if we gave her another 5YM in the EC to season her some more, that Saavik could end up being something special.

Spock picked her to mentor for a reason, and I'm starting to see why he did. She has potential, and the more I think about it, the more inclined I am to give her a second 5YM to see if we can bring it out.
 
yeah, but technological delvopment can make certain social models nonviable. There is a reason all the monarchies in Europe lost power around the same time.
Not necessarily, if the central powers had won WW1, it is very likely that Europe would still be dominated by royalty. The Tsar might have still fallen, possibly the Austrians as well, but the Kaiser wouldn't have, and the ottomans wouldn't have either.
 
I don't think there is anything after The Mission Unending. That's it, capstone of the Doctrine tree, done forever. Unless regular technologies, Doctrines seem be designed as trees that can be completed. So if the Tiger Team is not "locked" then they can replace Theory Division on Cardassian Analysis and Theory Division moves on to Offensive Doctrine.
I am about 95% certain this is incorrect. We know there's stuff beyond what's shown in other trees - Weapons has T6 Quantum Torpedo Production Model showing, and there's quite few T5 gateway techs.

@OnierosTheWriter
Is the Mission Unending the end of the lone ranger tree?
 
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