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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I could care less about the auxiliaries thing. We need to get Academy Expansions now or we run out of crew and you think having to borrow freighters is embarrassing? Just wait until we hit a genuine crew crisis.
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It's not an either or situation. I agree with going for an Academy expansion in 2314, along with some new shipyard berths, and replacing Seruk.

Request development of Utopia Planitia, 35pp, (4 turns, gain 1 3mt, 1 1mt berth)
Request new Shipyard at Ferasa, 25pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth)
Request Academy Development, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
Arrange to have an Old Guard Admiral convinced it is time to retire, 20pp

There, that's 115pp and a perfectly reasonable list of priorities, I think.
 
Kyushiro said:
I've seen some people arguing for that. Whats the benefit? Is it just because he doesn't give us a bonus?
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Because he doesn't give us a bonus and because we will thereafter be able to have Personnel turn where we have greater control over who gets appointed to the Explorer Corps board of captains. (Or at least, that was what Oneiros had in mind at the beginning of the quest.)
 
No, you need at least a 2.5 MT berth to repair an Excelsior. Will probably need a 3 MT berth to repair an Ambassador.
 
Briefvoice said:
It's not an either or situation. I agree with going for an Academy expansion in 2314, along with some new shipyard berths, and replacing Seruk.

Request development of Utopia Planitia, 35pp, (4 turns, gain 1 3mt, 1 1mt berth)
Request new Shipyard at Ferasa, 25pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth)
Request Academy Development, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
Arrange to have an Old Guard Admiral convinced it is time to retire, 20pp

There, that's 115pp and a perfectly reasonable list of priorities, I think.
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Can we not replace him?

I'd rather bump Seruk up to VADM. I'm ambivalent on the Ferasa yard though.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Why do we want 3mt berths? Why not build the Betazed shipyard with 2x1mt?
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As our number of Excelsiors continues to rise dramatically, the odds that we will have multiple ones damaged during any given quarter also rises. A 3mt berth gives maximum flexibility, because we can use it for an Excelsior repair, or build smaller ships in it if we want (which being smaller are less important and more easily bumped for a repair if necessary).

AlphaDelta said:
I'd rather bump Seruk up to VADM.
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This continues to not be an option in the Snakepit. There is not and never has been an option to make Personnel into a Vice Admiral position. I interpret that as Sousa having determined that it's simply not justified in terms of the staff that Personnel requires, etc.

Moreover, I note that there's no proof that we would get a bonus out of Seruk if he were promoted to Vice Admiral while staying in the same position. When we've gotten Old Guard admirals to give bonuses in the past, it has always been by moving them to a new position.

EDIT: I'm ambivalent on the Ferasa yard too, TBH. I'd like to do a new one, but I don't have really strong opinions about location.
 
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Seruk is a living institution of Starfleet by now. I'll not have him replaced til he chooses to leave of his own initiative.
 
Briefvoice said:
Alternately, he's a slowly hardening artery, constricting Starfleet's blood flow and making us sicker with each passing year.
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Okay, so, if you want to make that argument, it would probably help to show some kind of evidence we're getting hurt by Seruk. (Hint, there really isn't any. I mean, we had amazing choices last EC panel.)

Joshrand1982 said:
A what now? What is a Hyman G Rickover situation?
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Rickover was the father of USN nuclear power and the reason why there was something of a generational gap between WW2 and late '50s submariners; he believed that the new era wasn't compatible with the old breed. However arguing that Rickover was a bad thing is kind of novel to me; I won't say he's remembered fondly in the modern USN, but his necessity is pretty undisputed, and much of what his actions left the Navy is considered valuable. (In particular the enviable nuclear safety record is very much Rickover's fault.)
 
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Look, we've had people promoted to Rear Admiral positions and then on to Vice Admiral positions in the time Seruk has been in office. We've had Vice Admirals get appointed and then retire. We've had a Kahurangi get promoted to Admiral and go to a graceful retirement in the time he's been in office. People don't stay in the same position forever. Seruk himself has been explicit about that. So in my opinion there's no call to be sentimental and call him an "institution" or anything like that. He's an officer who has been in this position a long time and seems to have been doing an adequate but not exceptional job. Providing no special bonuses.

You like him because you've seen his name on a lot of posts. Great. But you know, there are other characters whose names have been in a lot of posts. We'll pick out a nice commodore whom you have heard of, or maybe a Rear Admiral at one of those starbases whom you've heard of. (The starbases are like Rear Admiral training grounds before we give them one of the really hard jobs.)
 
Goat said:
No, you need at least a 2.5 MT berth to repair an Excelsior. Will probably need a 3 MT berth to repair an Ambassador.
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iirc it depends on the level of damage... superficial can be repaired at properly equipped starbases (and i'd imagine any available 1mt berths, but we've got starbases equally accessable), but if you get into super structure damage (or gutted like the Courageous) then you need a berth greater than or equal to the tonnage of the vessel, mostly b/c you're basically rebuilding at least 1/4 of the vessel
 
Briefvoice said:
Look, we've had people promoted to Rear Admiral positions and then on to Vice Admiral positions in the time Seruk has been in office. We've had Vice Admirals get appointed and then retire. We've had a Kahurangi get promoted to Admiral and go to a graceful retirement in the time he's been in office. People don't stay in the same position forever. Seruk himself has been explicit about that. So in my opinion there's no call to be sentimental and call him an "institution" or anything like that. He's an officer who has been in this position a long time and seems to have been doing an adequate but not exceptional job. Providing no special bonuses.

You like him because you've seen his name on a lot of posts. Great. But you know, there are other characters whose names have been in a lot of posts. We'll pick out a nice commodore whom you have heard of, or maybe a Rear Admiral at one of those starbases whom you've heard of. (The starbases are like Rear Admiral training grounds before we give them one of the really hard jobs.)
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Okay so first you argue he's a bad thing.

Now you argue he's a neutral thing.

The goalposts, they are moving. I get you want Seruk gone, and you are on record as against him personally rather as a professional So forgive me if I don't take your word for it either way. Yes, he's been there a long time, but he's a Vulcan. He can spend the time if he so desires.
 
Night said:
Okay so first you argue he's a bad thing.

Now you argue he's a neutral thing.

The goalposts, they are moving. I get you want Seruk gone, and you are on record as against him personally rather as a professional So forgive me if I don't take your word for it either way. Yes, he's been there a long time, but he's a Vulcan. He can spend the time if he so desires.
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Didn't we already spend endless pages discussing why it is a a bad idea to let people remain in the same (leadership) position for lengthy amounts of time - especially in a (semi-) military organization? Because I am pretty sure we did. It encourages all sort of bad behaviour which is why most administrations do try to minimize it...
 
Night said:
Okay so first you argue he's a bad thing.

Now you argue he's a neutral thing.
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No, first I pointed out that if aeqnai want to post unsupported speculation about him being a good thing (I can only interpret "an institution" positively), I can post unsupported speculation about him being a bad thing.

The goalposts, they are moving. I get you want Seruk gone, and you are on record as against him personally rather as a professional So forgive me if I don't take your word for it either way. Yes, he's been there a long time, but he's a Vulcan. He can spend the time if he so desires.
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Some days I like him, other days I don't like him, but bottom line is that there's:

1. No game mechanical reason to keep him (an Admiral bonus is generally worth more than 20pp over the long term, and he doesn't seem to be leaving on his own).
2. No in-game cultural reason to keep him, as it seems to directly contradict the principle of up (or at least sideways) or out that the rest of Stafleet admiralty seems to run under.
3. No in-game reason for Sousa to be particularly fond of him, as he's not one of 'her people' and isn't going out of his way to work with her vision for Starfleet (as you can tell by the fact that he provides no bonus.)

So really there's not much of any good argument for not getting rid of him other than "you think the character is really cool" or "have higher priorities for 20pp this Snakepit".
 
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