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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Briefvoice said:
I think the most successful omakes are those that really tie into events in the quest in a concrete way. I know I've had to abandon a few where I realized I was spinning off completely into an original cast of characters that had nothing to do with the quest other than notionally taking place in the Boldly Go universe.

So basically my comment would be, great you've got an Orion vigilante, but it'll work better if it's really tied to things going on in all those 'Master of Orion' posts and to a more Star Trek feel in general.
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That's especially fair on the MOO posts, though FWIW I back-dated this more to give myself some room to play with. I might do a "backstory" bit, and then try to start tying it into things (without accidentally stepping on toes). Again, half the reason I back-dated was to give myself space to try and tie it in to MOO/ASTF posts/events without feeling rushed about it.

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Modern Explorers and Syndicate Amendment
[X][FACTION] Approach the Mercantilists about a diplomatic/financial push to assist the Orions with their political and economic transition.
 
Kaze said:
It would even be in character for the federation diplomatic service to do so. After all, the Licori would be an affiliate already if they weren't at war with the Ked Paddah and negotiating a peace treaty between them seems to be right up their alley, both responsibility and skill wise.
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Just to be clear, this is not true. The war is one reason they aren't an affiliate. Their use of mentats is also blocking affiliate status, and I have a hard time seeing them give that up considering that it's deeply ingrained into their culture and scientific progress. Other reasons we might not want them as affiliates (though not specifically noted as being reasons for a block):
- They are an autocratic empire modeled on something like the Dune books. This probably wouldn't block a 100 level affiliate status, but I'm sure it would block 300 level status.
- They are directly coreward of Romulan space, and the Romulans might justifiably feel we're encroaching on their natural 'sphere of influence'.
- The Gaeni think they're crazy.
 
Briefvoice said:
Well the point would be to be an unaffiliated third party that both groups could trust as a neutral mediator. That doesn't really involve starships.

How the Licori/Ked Paddah War could go most wrong from our perspective is if the Licori mentats release some kind of horrifying super-weapon that escapes their control in a last ditch effort to save their empire from being overrun. A weapon we then have to deal with. I mean, these people made a giant space monster that ate a research outpost by accident. What could they do on purpose? I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but I'd bet it's at least a possibility on whatever narrative table Oneiros might be using to plot how that conflict goes.
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Kaze said:
Talking isn't likely to hurt us, and it doesn't seem like anything is going to happen unless we try so...

My main reason for supporting the idea comes from looking at nix's map and seeing that if we can get the Ked Paddah and Licori onside along with the Yan-Ros, we will have access to a massive area of space, equal or greater to the GBZ no less, that we can then expand into.

Also, like everyone else, I want to put a leash on the Licori's experiments before they create Biophage 2.0 by accident. Solving their conflict with the Ked Paddah will let us do that since the Licori would then be affiliates.
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I don't think it's a bad idea to try resolving the Licori-Ked Paddah conflict and to try to limit the excessive SCIENCE of the Licori.

However:

a) I think the Orion situation is more urgent - strike while the iron is hot and all that, and get out of our political hole ASAP.

b) I have large doubts on how impactful Starfleet and the Pacifists can be with the Licori and Ked Paddah if we can't devote that many resources to it. There's a decent chance that a diplomatic party will fail to stop the conflict. I dunno, maybe one of you has a comprehensive plan for addressing this situation?

c) I think the risk of the Licori creating a crisis-scale superweapon is small enough that we can prioritize other concerns. I also think there's a bit of an observer effect going on here (not the correct term, but can't recall a more correct one) where discovery or non-discovery of the Licori doesn't actually change the probability of external disaster - just our perceptions of it.

edit:
d) This would also be the first time we interact with the Mercantalists. Not that important but it's pretty cool :)
 
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lbmaian said:
I don't think it's a bad idea to try resolving the Licori-Ked Paddah conflict and to try to limit the excessive SCIENCE of the Licori.

However:

a) I think the Orion situation is more urgent - strike while the iron is hot and all that, and get out of our political hole ASAP.
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I actually agree with you, which is why I'm voting for the Mercantile thing. The mechanical effect I would expect from it is another whomping load of Impact like we got from the relief convoy the Pacifists sent. If we can get the Syndicate over 400 this year, the whole thing might actually wind down enough the Cost is minimal and we can stop bleeding political will. Maybe even pull away the starship assets of the ASTF by end of 2315.
 
Oh... this is awkward, but @OneirosTheWriter:

You forgot to include the Ariel V-8 BR colony option in the snakepit vote:
OneirosTheWriter said:
Gain 15br/yr colony site option, Ariel V-8
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Or maybe this is intentional? The Ariel system is smack dab in the middle of the Gabriel Expanse, and recent Captain's Log updates have shown that the game mechanics regarding colonization are different there. That is, the GBZ task force may end up claiming and colonizing it anyway without any political dealing & wheeling on our end.

edit: Also noticed there was no option to buy more influence, so the whole banking influence idea is moot anyway.
 
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Briefvoice said:
I think the most successful omakes are those that really tie into events in the quest in a concrete way. I know I've had to abandon a few where I realized I was spinning off completely into an original cast of characters that had nothing to do with the quest other than notionally taking place in the Boldly Go universe.

So basically my comment would be, great you've got an Orion vigilante, but it'll work better if it's really tied to things going on in all those 'Master of Orion' posts and to a more Star Trek feel in general.
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Speak for yourself, I have 6000 words about Revak's pens
 
Briefvoice said:
Just to be clear, this is not true. The war is one reason they aren't an affiliate. Their use of mentats is also blocking affiliate status, and I have a hard time seeing them give that up considering that it's deeply ingrained into their culture and scientific progress.
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True but after the Rigellians and Apiata, and soon the Orions, I think we've got at least some reason to think that a solution both sides can live with can be found. Also it's not like they've been shooting at us whenever we run into them either, so them going berserk over the issue isn't a problem. Hopefully.

Briefvoice said:
Other reasons we might not want them as affiliates (though not specifically noted as being reasons for a block):
- They are an autocratic empire modeled on something like the Dune books. This probably wouldn't block a 100 level affiliate status, but I'm sure it would block 300 level status.
- They are directly coreward of Romulan space, and the Romulans might justifiably feel we're encroaching on their natural 'sphere of influence'.
- The Gaeni think they're crazy.
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Your own first point says it doesn't apply to what I'm talking about, and it's not mentioned as a reason affiliation is impossible either.

Also, I'd be fine with them just being a 100 level affiliate. Quite frankly, we don't seem to run into many species who aren't compatible with the Federation, so really it would be a nice change to have one that doesn't want to, or can't, join us for reasons other than hating our guts or being a Cardassian affiliate.

To your second point, the Romulans are a little distracted at the moment, and if the federation council thinks it's a problem they can bring it up. If it is a problem, now is probably the best time to do so really.

Your third seems like a reason to not leave this be for too much longer, honestly.
 
Briefvoice said:
Just to be clear, this is not true. The war is one reason they aren't an affiliate. Their use of mentats is also blocking affiliate status, and I have a hard time seeing them give that up considering that it's deeply ingrained into their culture and scientific progress. Other reasons we might not want them as affiliates (though not specifically noted as being reasons for a block):
- They are an autocratic empire modeled on something like the Dune books. This probably wouldn't block a 100 level affiliate status, but I'm sure it would block 300 level status.
- They are directly coreward of Romulan space, and the Romulans might justifiably feel we're encroaching on their natural 'sphere of influence'.
- The Gaeni think they're crazy.
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I agree with all this, and I don't especially want the Licori as affiliates. The Ked-Padda are more interesting to me.

Also, the sooner we end this war, the fewer planets the Licori will have unleashed their desertifying giant sandworms on.
 
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[X][COUNCIL] Plan Modern Explorers and Syndicate Amendment
[X][FACTION] Approach the Pacifists about options regarding the conflict between the Licori, Ked Paddah, and the Mentats.

we really need to push the gretarians and yrillians next year though. if we can sneak them out from under the Sydraxians/Cardiasians that would be huge.
 
Leila Hann said:
I agree with all this, and I don't especially want the Licori as affiliates. The Ked-Padda are more interesting to me.

Also, the sooner we end this war, the fewer planets the Licori will have unleashed their desertifying giant sandworms on.
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That poses the question where we had more influence over them - as affiliates or members. But I also think that a race that just says 'that's part of our culture we won't change' would be nice to see.
 
[X][FACTION] Approach the Mercantilists about a diplomatic/financial push to assist the Orions with their political and economic transition.

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Modern Explorers and Syndicate Amendment

I think we can actually get the Orions on-side.

I am unconvinced this is the case for the Licori, and given what the Ked Paddah's inciting incident was, I am not entirely unsympathetic to them.
 
[X][FACTION] Approach the Mercantilists about a diplomatic/financial push to assist the Orions with their political and economic transition.

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Modern Explorers and Syndicate Amendment
 
No opinion on the Council vote, myself, but doing everything possible to smooth out the economic future of Orion is vital.

[X][FACTION] Approach the Mercantilists about a diplomatic/financial push to assist the Orions with their political and economic transition.
 
lbmaian said:
Oh... this is awkward, but @OneirosTheWriter:

You forgot to include the Ariel V-8 BR colony option in the snakepit vote:


Or maybe this is intentional? The Ariel system is smack dab in the middle of the Gabriel Expanse, and recent Captain's Log updates have shown that the game mechanics regarding colonization are different there. That is, the GBZ task force may end up claiming and colonizing it anyway without any political dealing & wheeling on our end.

edit: Also noticed there was no option to buy more influence, so the whole banking influence idea is moot anyway.
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We are already in the process of claiming Ariel colony and establishing an outpost there.
 
It's difficult to say if we want the Excelsior refit so urgently, in my opinion.

It's possible upcoming sheet changes push the big Ambassador out of viability. Certainly, our recommended changes would do it. That means that we'd be looking seriously at an Excelsior-replacement Ambassador design. So a refit would only really apply to hulls we already have in service/construction.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
So a refit would only really apply to hulls we already have in service/construction.
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With the Excelsior the member states produced - would that be worth it? Considering a refit takes also less time than building a new ship? Biophage, Orion, Cardassians - in all these crisis ships were/are needed and there wasn't time to wait for the next 'really better' version. Can we afford to do so? Serious question, because it's optimization along multiple lines.
 
Briefvoice said:
So if the Excelsior refit passes, the timing is going to work out very nicely. Under current planning we have good reason not to commence any Excelsiors in 2014, meaning that the next Excelsiors we commence could be Excelsior-As.

You see, only two Excelsior berths will be open in 2014. One is the San Francisco berth, and we probably want to keep that open for building the Ambassador prototype. The other is 40 Eridani Berth B, and that only opens in Q3... meaning that we might as well let it stay open until 2315.Q1 so it can synch up with Berth A for dual-Excelsior builds to take advantage of Chen's bonus. We can use all the resources productively by starting six Renaissance cruisers in 2314.
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How do the refit costs for our existing Excelsiors look? Should we prioritize getting a new shipyard or 3MT berth for refits, or would that put us in the red? I note you have 10 refits listed on the spreadsheet, but we're looking at having 13 ships that will need it.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
It's difficult to say if we want the Excelsior refit so urgently, in my opinion.

It's possible upcoming sheet changes push the big Ambassador out of viability. Certainly, our recommended changes would do it. That means that we'd be looking seriously at an Excelsior-replacement Ambassador design. So a refit would only really apply to hulls we already have in service/construction.
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Between the twelve we have, the half dozen under construction, and the four member world ones we've got a lot of refits potentially to do. Plus getting the first Ambassador done is going to take another 7-8 years easily, so that's another dozen Excelsior-A's easily at the current rate. Plus, having the refit option means we won't have our biggest berths idle when we start running low on crew.
 
Nervos Belli said:
Between the twelve we have, the half dozen under construction, and the four member world ones we've got a lot of refits potentially to do. Plus getting the first Ambassador done is going to take another 7-8 years easily, so that's another dozen Excelsior-A's easily at the current rate. Plus, having the refit option means we won't have our biggest berths idle when we start running low on crew.
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How are refits handled for ships currently under construction? Build to old spec, or refitted for added cost, or just refitted?
 
Nervos Belli said:
Between the twelve we have, the half dozen under construction, and the four member world ones we've got a lot of refits potentially to do. Plus getting the first Ambassador done is going to take another 7-8 years easily, so that's another dozen Excelsior-A's easily at the current rate. Plus, having the refit option means we won't have our biggest berths idle when we start running low on crew.
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If you want to be scrapping Excelsior-As in 20 years when we're up against the combat cap, then sure, make those arguments. I do agree that we should refit and that it has benefits, but not to presume that those benefits include starting more Excelsior-As. We don't have the information to make that decision, and I actually think it's kind of a shitshow that we're holding this vote without a finalized sheet so that you can have the information.

But my opinion from using the current sheet and the changes people have been suggesting to it, that the Ambassador could out-compete the Excelsior-A in cost and crew efficiency, and if we pick such a design, once the prototype is near complete, we should not be building any E-A.
 
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