To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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Looking at what the ASTF ships actually spend their time doing, they seem to be mostly used for planetary blockades and orbital support. I'll also note that as a Blooded ship, the Yukikaze has Science 4, so not that much worse than the Torbriel.
So yeah, I think it'll be all right.
Bonus seems to have ended when it went in for refits, barring a message from the QM that it is still ongoing. My guess is that now that the borders will be solidified by the Treat of Celos (presumably), Intelligence will go to the Listening Posts model used on other borders.
Oh, in that case then I'm not sure I see the need for an Oberth and the Salnas, unless the Cardassians are throwing cloaks at us.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
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- North American Plaguelands
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- She/Her
@OneirosTheWriter
Does the Stargazer get events as a normal EC ship, using normal event rules, or does it have it's own ruleset?
Does the Stargazer get events as a normal EC ship, using normal event rules, or does it have it's own ruleset?
Gabriel expanse is basically totally unexplored, between Sydraxians and Cardassians, AND the Pride of Kadesh is flying that way. We want recon assets there.
- Location
- Austin, TX
What about moving the Hawking from the RBZ to the Rigel sector, and the T'Mir over to the GBZ? An Excelsior has comparable science to a green Oberth, which we have in the RBZ, and can spare the 1D in the RBZ.
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- somewhere
As I said before a sector where we expect a lot of skirmishing is just about the last place to put an Oberth due the risk of losing the ship.
I don't think you can ever really go wrong with that.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
We want the Oberth in the RBZ because it gives us another ship with good enough sensors to stand a decent chance catching cloaked ships.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
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- Liberl Zemuria.
Sounds like we need to send 1 Excelsior, 2 Miranda, and an Oberth to the GBZ.
I hadn't thought about the need for mapping ships. On the other hand, I suspect the Apiata will be shoving foragers into the zone by the double, so they could do the mapping at low risk to us. On the other hand, an escorted T'Mir is more likely to survive if the evasion bonus is any good.
Pretty conflicted.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The thing is, when you promote a Q you get a Q, so while Qs are in fact unable to avoid promotion, it doesn't make any difference. There's nowhere to promote them to.
Indeed. Phew! That makes it more likely that we can get both the legislation and the Ambassador this year...
Depends. How many guns have they got, and does their 'imperialism' make them likely to rebel against their Cardassian masters?
It would explain who the Borg assimilated to get their catchphrase.
I can actually imagine some Risans getting behind the idea of redeeming some of the galaxy's head-cases with sheer overwhelming love, support, and kindness... It might even be the Risan analogue to the 'crusader' impulses that most other species have. But you're certainly right in general. I wouldn't want to dump thousands and thousands of prisoners on them in wartime. However, for dealing with small groups, things are a bit different.
Um... I'm actually hoping that's a natural trait of the Cardassian species. My reasoning:
Either:
1) Cardassians are naturally telepathy-resistant, or
2) Cardassians have training on how to resist telepathy that goes to the ones with important secrets.
If (1), then it's just bad luck; our Betazoid advantage is greatly diminished though perhaps not entirely eliminated (say, because a Betazoid who can normally read your thoughts like an open book gets knocked back to Troi-esque 'I sense hostility' levels).
If (2), then who taught them to do that? They must have access to a significant number of real, live, telepaths against whom they can train their anti-telepathy defenses. Telepaths who are trusted enough to be permitted to give this training to members of the Cardassian military, government, and espionage organs. Either there are a significant number of telepathic Cardassians, or there is a highly trusted affiliate race or group of wandering psychics or alien monks or whoever, somewhere in Cardassian space, who provide this training.
In the former case, the Cardassians just have a one-off immunity that inconveniences us. In the latter case, the Cardassians have psychic spies, and we know nothing about them. In which case the Lecarre are only the beginning of our worries!
One, they might be. We cannot rule out the Cardassians figuring out how to build cloaks, now or at some later time, especially since we KNOW they were able to purchase a working model and integrate it into one of their ships.
Two, if the Cardassians ever did develop cloaks, the Gabriel Expanse is probably the first place they'd use them against us, much as the Romulans first used cloaks to punch out some of our border outposts. It's the area where they have the greatest chance of catching one of our ships or installations alone, deniably hitting it, and then fading away before we can pursue and sweep the area for cloaked ships.
Three, even if the Cardassians never develop cloaks, the Gabriel Expanse is very large and ships can be alarmingly sneaky when they want to, even in the total absence of a formal cloaking device. Having two ships capable of sciencing is good. Remember, too, that a random accident can put a single ship out of action quite easily, so any capability you really want to have in a key sector, you want to have a backup for.
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If sensors is the science rating, what's the difference between an Oberth and an Excelsior?
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Durability.
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- somewhere
Mechanically there isn't as far as sensors are concerned, two Excelsiors instead of an Excelsior and an Oberth would also work.
I worry a lot about Rigel Sector. It's sitting up there, an exposed and unprotected flank that's far away from our major ship concentrations and with an awful lot of unknown space out there. Having the T'Mir on duty there would make me feel a lot better, and there's certainly plenty of room for mapping missions in that direction.
Nothing. But our informal rule has been "two high-Science ships sitting on the border with powers using cloaking devices". Two chances to spot the cloak.
Maybe, but I'm not going to consider the Cardassians adopting more cloaking technology to be a serious concern until we see some sign they're doing so. I strongly suspect the whole Kadak-Tor mess has severely soured their High Command on the whole idea, because it showed how easy it is for a ship to go rogue under the protection of a cloak. It may not be rational, but I expect anyone who mutter the word "cloak" for the next couple of decades in High Command HQ is going to get some very nasty looks.
Nothing. But our informal rule has been "two high-Science ships sitting on the border with powers using cloaking devices". Two chances to spot the cloak.
Maybe, but I'm not going to consider the Cardassians adopting more cloaking technology to be a serious concern until we see some sign they're doing so. I strongly suspect the whole Kadak-Tor mess has severely soured their High Command on the whole idea, because it showed how easy it is for a ship to go rogue under the protection of a cloak. It may not be rational, but I expect anyone who mutter the word "cloak" for the next couple of decades in High Command HQ is going to get some very nasty looks.
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- Mid-Atlantic
@Briefvoice:
Understood, but... "plan for capabilities, not for intentions."
If it's all the same to you, I'd like us to at least retain the option to cope effectively with unexpected Cardassian use of cloaking devices. Or at lest make a good faith effort to do so. Reasonable?
Understood, but... "plan for capabilities, not for intentions."
If it's all the same to you, I'd like us to at least retain the option to cope effectively with unexpected Cardassian use of cloaking devices. Or at lest make a good faith effort to do so. Reasonable?
Algalon
Herald of the Titans
- Location
- Celestial Planetarium
Leads to the same end result. Your average drafted Cardassian won't have much discipline or mental training, or even be aware that they're in front of a telepath. We know that they're heavily censoring or blocking outside information. If our telepaths can't read somebody, then that's a pretty clear indicator that they're rather high up the ladder and thus should not be trusted.
Well we retain the option in the sense of having high-Science ships we can move out there if there's evidence of needed. But I don't see the need to put an Oberth in the Gabriel Expanse right now, especially if it'll have an Excelsior, 2 Connie-Bs, the Challorn, and a Miranda-A. That's a Science 5 ship, three Science 3 ships, and a Science 2 ship. Seems plenty of anti-cloaking just from weight of numbers.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Understood. I'm not going to keep kvetching about this, it's simply a point I wanted to make, that we shouldn't go from "the Cardassians never used cloaks in canon" to "therefore, they won't use them here."
The way I figure it, there's a 'period of maximum danger' defined by the question "If the Cardassians really did learn some significant things from their time in possession of Chang's combat cloak, how long would it probably take them to design a reverse-engineered version?"
My gut feeling is that if they're going to be successful in such an undertaking, it would take them something like 5-10 years from the time they got a good look at the cloaking device themselves to the time they duplicated it. If they haven't accomplished the goal by that time, then it seems more likely that they ran into fundamental theoretical or practical issues and gave up. Or that they simply never really tried to reverse-engineer the combat cloak in the first place. Maybe for fear of damaging it somehow.
Another way of looking at it is: If the Cardassians DID start a "research cloaking" tech right around the time they obtained the combat cloak, when would they finish it? My best guess is "about five to ten years after they started it." Which means we're arguably entering that period of maximum danger right now. If the Cardassians don't seem to have cloaking devices in 2320, I'll be a lot more comfortable in predicting they never will. But we're moving into exactly the time window when they might try refitting ships with cloaking devices and using them to deniably harass us.
The way I figure it, there's a 'period of maximum danger' defined by the question "If the Cardassians really did learn some significant things from their time in possession of Chang's combat cloak, how long would it probably take them to design a reverse-engineered version?"
My gut feeling is that if they're going to be successful in such an undertaking, it would take them something like 5-10 years from the time they got a good look at the cloaking device themselves to the time they duplicated it. If they haven't accomplished the goal by that time, then it seems more likely that they ran into fundamental theoretical or practical issues and gave up. Or that they simply never really tried to reverse-engineer the combat cloak in the first place. Maybe for fear of damaging it somehow.
Another way of looking at it is: If the Cardassians DID start a "research cloaking" tech right around the time they obtained the combat cloak, when would they finish it? My best guess is "about five to ten years after they started it." Which means we're arguably entering that period of maximum danger right now. If the Cardassians don't seem to have cloaking devices in 2320, I'll be a lot more comfortable in predicting they never will. But we're moving into exactly the time window when they might try refitting ships with cloaking devices and using them to deniably harass us.
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
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"Jailers" is a strong word there friend. I see it more as them being our "Event Managers" for those we have to host.
Cardassian: Do your worst Federation scum! Know that I Dubim of Cardassia will never break!
Risan: That's nice hun. Here have a Mai Tai and remember that the welcoming luau begins at sundown.
[Dubim watches as the his scantily dressed Warden walks away with a sway to her hips.]
Dubim: Truly the Federation is as insidious as we were told.
[Mai Tai sipping intensifies.]
Mr. Mica
Capitalism cannot fix Global Warming.
- Location
- Earth
Halle-fucking-lujah
- Location
- Central Standard Time
I am for placing the T'Mir on the ASTF, CBZ, SBZ, or RBZ.
Anywhere else is a waste.
Anywhere else is a waste.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
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Yeah, but there's still a major flaw there.
Cardassian: I want to go home.
Risan: Okay.