At some point you have to recognize that a government that can't be trusted with a lemonade stand is not a government worth preserving. I'm all for beating up on the Syndicate, but once it's done I don't want these imbeciles in the Federation.

Hopefully they get their shit sorted out. Like go back to the drawing board after kicking out all the TuPpers and getting a new Constitution that breaks up Hypercorps levels of getting shit together.

Then they can start running the blade of the law across the criminal necks of the Corporations.
 
At some point you have to recognize that a government that can't be trusted with a lemonade stand is not a government worth preserving. I'm all for beating up on the Syndicate, but once it's done I don't want these imbeciles in the Federation.

The Orion Union has made stumbles in execution, but overall I don't think their strategy is bad. I have to say, I don't even recognize this Union you're describing as "can't be trusted with a lemonade stand".

What mistakes have they made that are so terrible you're convinced they're incompetent and useless? Keeping in mind that this is a difficult situation against an enemy who hides inside their own population.
 
I think we might have to go with a plan that essentially boils down to "Brandish a big pointy stick somewhere near Bajor.

If we have to go with a plan like that, let's sharpen that stick a bit first. What kind of teeth do we think the Bajor garrison has? How much firepower would we want to comfortably overmatch it? Where would we get them from? And who would we want in command of that fleet, handling our aggressive/diplomatic positioning?
 
Hopefully they get their shit sorted out. Like go back to the drawing board after kicking out all the TuPpers and getting a new Constitution that breaks up Hypercorps levels of getting shit together.

Then they can start running the blade of the law across the criminal necks of the Corporations.

...The thought occurs that them going full Reign of Terror on the corps would probably bar them from Federation membership in some capacity. Even if it would be satisfying.
 
What annoys me most is that the Union has been getting the reputation of the oppressor without any of the security benefits of oppression. They're losing the PR war to a thousands year old slave taking suicide cult by being ruthless and laisse faire with collateral damage, but they aren't actually oppressing anyone in a way that limits their power. It's like when Hitler stopped bombing radar installations in England to go after civilian targets. It tanks your reputation, but doesn't even provide a benefit.
 
What annoys me most is that the Union has been getting the reputation of the oppressor without any of the security benefits of oppression. They're losing the PR war to a thousands year old slave taking suicide cult by being ruthless and laisse faire with collateral damage, but they aren't actually oppressing anyone in a way that limits their power. It's like when Hitler stopped bombing radar installations in England to go after civilian targets. It tanks your reputation, but doesn't even provide a benefit.

No of course being laisse faire with collateral damage has led to some of their worst failures, but you act like they haven't had any successes. Every Master of Orion report we get information on how they've reduced the assets of local Syndicate forces here or raided a Corp backing the Syndicate there. The Union has made a lot of progress in this fight! The Syndicate just took one planet back... after how many planets we've already taken away from them?
 
No of course being laisse faire with collateral damage has led to some of their worst failures, but you act like they haven't had any successes. Every Master of Orion report we get information on how they've reduced the assets of local Syndicate forces here or raided a Corp backing the Syndicate there. The Union has made a lot of progress in this fight! The Syndicate just took one planet back... after how many planets we've already taken away from them?

How many planets has the Union liberated? Pretty sure the answer is negative one. All the planets freed so far have been because of the Federation task force. I haven't done the math, but I'd wager they have a third of our impact with twice our cost. The Union government has been a millstone around our necks this entire conflict.
 
...The thought occurs that them going full Reign of Terror on the corps would probably bar them from Federation membership in some capacity. Even if it would be satisfying.

At the moment no one is planning to go full reign of terror. Part of the context for that was a war with literally all of Europe. With Federation support there is a feeling that the situation is not hopeless and as desperate as that. Reading biographies of Robespierre it's become fairly obvious to me that ol' Max just sorta lost his mind due to stress and fatigue at the end there

The more radical elements are still real angry though. Like so pissed.

I actually expect that the Union will have to scrap it's current constitution anyway. It almost certainly has provisions to protect the power of the corporations. And as long as the Corporations remain unbroken half the rotten system that is the Syndicate will live and regenerate itself.
 
Last edited:
How many planets has the Union liberated? Pretty sure the answer is negative one. All the planets freed so far have been because of the Federation task force. I haven't done the math, but I'd wager they have a third of our impact with twice our cost. The Union government has been a millstone around our necks this entire conflict.

Actually, since the Orion Union is in fact a revolutionary government originally, the answer is all of them minus Celos.
 
How many planets has the Union liberated? Pretty sure the answer is negative one. All the planets freed so far have been because of the Federation task force. I haven't done the math, but I'd wager they have a third of our impact with twice our cost. The Union government has been a millstone around our necks this entire conflict.

That is at least partly because we could concentrate our forces on the easy targets while the Orion government needs to deal with a hundred different problems, spread out over multiple systems and can't afford ignore hotspots like their capital planet in favour of cleaning up some frontier worlds.
 
Meanwhile, I am very interested in what's happening with Kadeshi Mothership and wargames. Plot got kinda dropped/sidelined.
 
Not gonna lie. I'm sorely tempted to just let them declare independence. I'm really fucking tired of propping up this useless Orion government. Not going to because I don't want Cardassians a week away from the home sectors but I've had it with the Union failing at everything.

Remember what Asurva said all the way back when we started the Orion campaign. This isn't actually a counter-insurgency, it's a civil war. It was just able to disguise itself as a counter-insurgency until recently.

In any lengthy war, ground is gained and lost. Open Syndicate conquest of a planet is well within the parameters I've been expecting. It surprises me far less than the attack on Amarkia did.
 
Last edited:
Actually, since the Orion Union is in fact a revolutionary government originally, the answer is all of them minus Celos.

In terms of the current conflict, please. Besides, I thought it had been stated the Syndicate was the original rebellion and that the current government was established more recently.
 
In terms of the current conflict, please. Besides, I thought it had been stated the Syndicate was the original rebellion and that the current government was established more recently.

The Syndicate may or may not have led the rebellion against the Hur'q.

Even if they did though, that was a thousand years ago. They haven't been anything remotely like revolutionaries for a very, very long time.
 
Last edited:
My main worry is that if war is declaired that the whole quadrant will catch fire and WWI in space will happen.

If we go to war with Cardassia does that activate our treaty with the Klingons. And then if so when (not If, WHEN) the Romulans attack them, do we have to attack the Romulans after all we've been through together to improve relations?

I don't want to fight on four fronts. I don't want to loose what rapport we do have with Romulus. This came at a really bad time. Our only hope is that Celos falls within the week so that the Cardassians aren't even tempted by the idea.

However we do have a good shot at that:
1) We control the Orbitals, either the Syndicate Fleet finally comes out in the open to fight and die or we gain the most important advantage. That this force is led by one of the Premier officers of our age is a huge bonus.
2) This Uprising does not seem to have popular support, minor peaceful (if unruly) protests were cooling down before this. Federation troops may be seen in a good light due to our relief efforts and any Aerocommando units landing will be seen in a different light to the SSD and other law enforcement units that committed the atrocities earlier on.
3) The Syndicate forces that are there have been fighting or in hiding for a while, and critically: The Syndicate forces that took the planet were apparently mainly small teams. Once they are pinned in place and forced to defend fixed locations their numbers can be depleted quickly. Any reinforcements would have to come from conscription from the local populace... and that is very likely to backfire. I repeat the Syndicate have not be reinforced in force since Celos was originally scoured.
4) The Main force tasked with reclaiming this world: The Aeroknights. This direct assault against entrenched positions of the Syndicate's best is literally what the Aerocommandos have been doing day in and day out since day one of this conflict. With the Amarki added to them they are perhaps the most formidable force in not only Union space, but the entire Federation.
5) The local SSD may in many locations be intact. The Syndicate look to have taken the key centers of power alone in surgical strikes. The SSD units are now scattered and broken. But are unlikely to have surrendered yet due to fears of atrocity. If we move fast enough, as In have units in orbit the day of the revolt and landing any forces on the ground soon after we may be able to recoalesce those units before they break up completely, defect, or do surrender.
6) If we move within days the Aeroknights should be able to begin attacking before the Syndicate are fully settled in and have repaired the damage that they caused to take Celos in the first place and also critically: to scour the networks for backdoors and security codes held by loyal government forces and remove them.

Essentially I want to go in hard and go in now. Damn the casualties. We can hand the Cardassians a fait accompli in a week and tell them to fuck off because there is nothing for them here.

EDIT: The fact that this rebel government is calling itself "Corporate" is actually a huge boon to the Union Government. Reforms aimed at rolling back corp influence will get a boost from people disgusted by how far they went as well as loss of support from Nationalists wondering why they are calling on the Cardassians of all people.

And on another level, the Syndicate and the Hypercorps there (which are entangled by definition with the Hypercorps elsewhere) have openly colluded on Celos. No longer can disingenuous politicians go "Oh we need the Syndicate to fight the Corps" or "We need the Corps to fight the Syndicate" both have announced that they are one and the same.

I can tell you that Maxime Sierre is happy about being able to put all the people's enemies in one big box and fight them all at once out in the open. I bet others in the government are just as happy.
 
Last edited:
Worrying thought:

The Syndicate may have planted more antimatter bombs in Celos' urban centers. As a last, desperate act, they could hold the planet hostage...or destroy it in the hopes that the Orion people will be too terrified to fight them anymore after that.

At this point I would put absolutely nothing past them. Even that.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top