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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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AKuz said:
IIRC she already ran the numbers and we can get a better than Canon replacement ship from a custom design program if we start the design process now.
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The sheet is a bit wonky for escort and cruiser sized ships at the moment I think. Here is a science ship with better combat stats than a constellation and a science stat twice as high as an Oberth or Excelsior.


Void Stalker said:
Explorer Corp Recruit Drive-20 pp, we need more crew to replace losses and construct new ships, both for the general fleet and for the explorer corp.
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I don't think this is worthwhile. An academy expansion only needs 4 years to equal the net recruitment and we should be able to shift more normal recuitment towards the Exporation Corps now that Yamada Keiko is about to retire. We aren't in such a desperate situation that we need to take such short term measures at the moment.
 
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Yessss, take that Inflictor! :D

We got all its big ships, now to be thorough in tracking down what's left.
 
Nix said:
I don't think this is worthwhile. An academy expansion only needs 4 years to equal the net recruitment and we should be able to shift more normal recuitment towards the Exporation Corps now that Yamada Keiko is about to retire. We aren't in such a desperate situation that we need to make such short term decisions at the moment.
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The problem is we may need the crew to replace losses and man the ships before the academy can produce them. Though I would like to see a general recruiting drive as both the Explorer Corps and Starfleet in general needs more crew. We will have a better idea once we hit the snakepit as we have one month left in this quarter which may or may not see additional crew loses.
 
tryrar said:
I wouldn't say no to a diplomatic push for either the Betazoids or the Amarki, they really helped out this crisis
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I would say say no! Fast tracking membership is useful during an extended crisis to get access to desperately needed resources and support, but is counterbalanced by a strong possibility that there will be long-term problems from the various necessary treaties being poorly worded, ill-considered, or various incorrect assumptions affecting untested policies.

The wait time before a species receives full membership isn't just arbitrary; it's a trial period where both parties feel each other out, figuring out how they can integrate, where their common interests lie, and what 'cultural traditions' they need to mutually politely ignore.

1809
 
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Sightsear said:
I would say say no! Fast tracking membership is useful during an extended crisis to get access to desperately needed resources and support, but is counterbalanced by a strong possibility that there will be long-term problems from the various necessary treaties being poorly worded, ill-considered, or various incorrect assumptions affecting untested policies.

The wait time before a species receives full membership isn't just arbitrary; it's a trial period where both parties feel each other out, figuring out how they can integrate, where their common interests lie, and what 'cultural traditions' they need to mutually politely ignore.
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I meant during the Snakepit, no crisis pushing. Basically showing them extra attention for helping out
 
Well that went reasonably well, sure the losses are quite painful (especially considering how many of our better ships got damaged/destroyed) but we should be able to replace most of the smaller vessels and crew relatively quickly. On the other hand we managed to discover two? new races, lessened the diplomatic tensions between us and the other two big galactic powers and hopefully gained some useful information/experience in the process (at least we should be able to push for a better "military"). Hell, I would even say the fact that both Romulans and Klingons took heavy casualties is a positive side effect since it lessens the risk of them capitalising on the current weakness which I have to admit was my worry before this last scene.

Nix said:
The sheet is a bit wonky for escort and cruiser sized ships at the moment I think. Here is a science ship with better combat stats than a constellation and a science stat twice as high as an Oberth or Excelsior.
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While I think it is reasonable to make our main explorers adequate in combat I have to say I see some use for dedicated combat craft - if only to have a easy to access reserve/response force for events like this.
 
Sightsear said:
I would say say no! Fast tracking membership is useful during an extended crisis to get access to desperately needed resources and support, but is counterbalanced by a strong possibility that there will be long-term problems from the various necessary treaties being poorly worded, ill-considered, or various incorrect assumptions affecting untested policies.

The wait time before a species receives full membership isn't just arbitrary; it's a trial period where both parties feel each other out, figuring out how they can integrate, where their common interests lie, and what 'cultural traditions' they need to mutually politely ignore.
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Fast tracking and diplomatic push are two different things. Fast tracking ignores the trial period, while a diplomatic push is putting more attention on the "feel each other out" phase and trying to speed that up as much as possible without opening up to long term problems.

Erandil said:
While I think it is reasonable to make our main explorers adequate in combat I have to say I see some use for dedicated combat craft - if only to have a easy to access reserve/response force for events like this.
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I am against that, because so often the crisis at hand isn't just combat. I mean, consider even this crisis. As much as we worried about winning the fights, we also worried about detecting the cloaked ships, which takes Science. Often in these problems you need both science and combat to solve a problem, and a ship only capable of combat can find itself screwed.
 
I for one would actually like to avoid custom ships as much as possible. I rather like most the Canon ship designs and I am worried that if we start trying to min max the system it will turn the quest into a ship optimization quest which is not what I find attractive about this.
 
Briefvoice said:
Fast tracking and diplomatic push are two different things. Fast tracking ignores the trial period, while a diplomatic push is putting more attention on the "feel each other out" phase and trying to speed that up as much as possible without opening up to long term problems.



I am against that, because so often the crisis at hand isn't just combat. I mean, consider even this crisis. As much as we worried about winning the fights, we also worried about detecting the cloaked ships, which takes Science. Often in these problems you need both science and combat to solve a problem, and a ship only capable of combat can find itself screwed.
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Agreed. Consider that the Romulan Star Empire had to reach out for help and asked for Enterprise and her sensors because their dedicated warships were not cutting it.
 
Nix said:
The sheet is a bit wonky for escort and cruiser sized ships at the moment I think. Here is a science ship with better combat stats than a constellation and a science stat twice as high as an Oberth or Excelsior.

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In fairness, the Constellation is pretty lousy, and that ship would take five years to develop. That being said, we could still design this in just two short years:
Not quite as ridic, but still better at sciencing than any ship type we have. (And if we were to seriously build this as a science ship, drop C by 2 and there's weight & power available to bring S to 8)
A Science variant on the New Orleans-class might be a good idea?

Speaking of the New Orleans, there's room for growth in the design - which of these do you prefer?
Baseline - C4 S3 H3 L4 P3 D4, 784kt, 80 br 70 sr
Quick Response - C4 S3 H3 L5 P3 D5, 886kt, 90 br 90 sr
Very Quick Response - C4 S3 H3 L4 P3 D6, 879kt, 90 br 80 sr
Multi-mission - C4 S4 H3 L4 P4 D4, 883kt, 90 br 85 sr
Offense - C6 S4 H3 L4 P4 D4, 896 kt, 90 br 90 sr
Heavy - C5 S4 H4 L4 P3 D4, 894 kt, 90 br 75 sr
Peacekeeping - C4 S3 H3 L4 P6 D4, 890 kt, 90 br 85 sr

Oneiros fixed the sheet.

Incidentally, @OneirosTheWriter, could we move the Oberth under construction to Solitude's shipyard?
 
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Nix said:
I don't think this is worthwhile. An academy expansion only needs 4 years to equal the net recruitment and we should be able to shift more normal recuitment towards the Exporation Corps now that Yamada Keiko is about to retire. We aren't in such a desperate situation that we need to take such short term measures at the moment.
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There may be hard limits to how many Exploration Corps we can recruit. You can't just make more of the best of the best. I mean, if we could we'd just crew all our ships with Explorer Corps!

Still, right now we're down 2O and 1T from the most recent battles. By my count replacing those leaves us at:
5.25 Officer, 8 Enlisted, 6 Techs

With the Q1 addition to the pool from the Academy, that ought to cover crewing the new Exploration Corps Excelsior when we have to deduct its crew in 2305.Q1. Just barely, though. We are going to be awful short on Exploration crew to replace any further losses.
 
Erandil said:
While I think it is reasonable to make our main explorers adequate in combat I have to say I see some use for dedicated combat craft - if only to have a easy to access reserve/response force for events like this.
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My point was that custom designs currently don't seem balanced at that scale, so being able to make a better than canon replacement for the Constellation right now doesn't mean that will still be possible after the sheet has been fine tuned.
Void Stalker said:
The problem is we may need the crew to replace losses and man the ships before the academy can produce them. Though I would like to see a general recruiting drive as both the Explorer Corps and Starfleet in general needs more crew. We will have a better idea once we hit the snakepit as we have one month left in this quarter which may or may not see additional crew loses.
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We didn't actually take that many losses as far as Starfleet personnel is concerned, that was mostly our allies. After replacing all lost crew on the repairable ships our pools look like this:

Standard Starfleet: 14.25 Officer, 24.25 Enlisted, 5.25 Techs
Explorer Corps: 5.25 Officer, 6 Enlisted, 5 Techs

This is not including the Miranda and the Centaur that need replacement, but that will take a few years anyway. We just need to increase recuitment a bit and divert from standard enlisted to techs and explorers, then we should be just fine without the recruitment drive.
Briefvoice said:
There may be hard limits to how many Exploration Corps we can recruit. You can't just make more of the best of the best. I mean, if we could we'd just crew all our ships with Explorer Corps!
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I'm not really seeing why those limits would exist for regular recruitment but not for recruitment drives, but if it turns out that way we can still do recruitment drives later, after taking a look at the academy mechanics.
 
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Nix said:
It's pretty inefficient pp wise. We can get the same berths much faster faster for 120 pp instead of 150.
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I'd been assuming that it came with it's own design bureau. If said team specialized in light cruisers, that would definitely be worth it.

@OneirosTheWriter could you confirm why that choice seems so inefficient? Is it just to early? Is it a free tech team? Is it cheaper (or free) expansion? Or is it something else?


On an unrelated note, Ship Centaur 1 deserves a name after that performance. Does she already have one? (I quick search shows that she was never hit, and destroyed a mothership, a cruiser, and a frigate in that battle.) My current suggestion is Yukikaze, but I'm open to others.
 
Thinking about snakepit and research priorities:
We need to get a doctrine team. We have an Admiral with doctrine bonuses, but no doctrine team. We also should get a Ship Construction or Ship Design (Cruiser) team, to start getting research done on those topics.

I don't think we ought to blow our entire RP stock on activating every single team: We can only sustain 8-9 topics indefintiely, and activating all the teams we haven't been making use of will just leave us with incomplete techs taunting us.
 
sebsmith said:
On an unrelated note, Ship Centaur 1 deserves a name after that performance. Does she already have one? (I quick search shows that she was never hit, and destroyed a mothership, a cruiser, and a frigate in that battle.) My current suggestion is Yukikaze, but I'm open to others.
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No name mentioned yet (at least in any way indicating that it's the name of that ship) or I would have added it to the list. As the only remaining unnamed ship in Taskforce Challorn she definitely does.

Speaking of names, maybe we should just include names in future build plans? Would make things slightly easier for Oneiros I think. Since the majority of our ships already have names the bookkeeping needs shouldn't noticeably increase and there would be no need to invent a name on the spot when one is required.
 
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pheonix89 said:
Thinking about snakepit and research priorities:
We need to get a doctrine team. We have an Admiral with doctrine bonuses, but no doctrine team. We also should get a Ship Construction or Ship Design (Cruiser) team, to start getting research done on those topics.
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I agree with these. The 0/50 Doctrine research times look intimidating, but with only one "Technology" the +5 Inspiration bonus gets applied every time. With a +2 Team to start, we'd get there in 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 11 (team has leveled up) + 11... five years. Though if we got unlucky and started with a +1 team (I assume it's a roll of some sort) it'd be 7 + 7 + 7 + 9 (team has leveled up) + 9 + 9 + 9... seven years. (Though hell, we could always assign Spock and still get it done in 6 years.)
 
@OneirosTheWriter
Is there any chance of an experience mechanic for particularly notable non-Explorer ships? Challorn's been a godsend this entire crisis.

Edit: And is it intended for the fleet design doctrines to not be mutually exclusive?
Briefvoice said:
I agree with these. The 0/50 Doctrine research times look intimidating, but with only one "Technology" the +5 Inspiration bonus gets applied every time. With a +2 Team to start, we'd get there in 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 11 (team has leveled up) + 11... five years. Though if we got unlucky and started with a +1 team (I assume it's a roll of some sort) it'd be 7 + 7 + 7 + 9 (team has leveled up) + 9 + 9 + 9... seven years. (Though hell, we could always assign Spock and still get it done in 6 years.)
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You forgot we have a +3 from from Heidi Eriksson. So that's +10 per turn on a +1 team, +12 on a +2 team.

Also, I vote our first custom light cruiser class is named Challorn.
 
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pheonix89 said:
Thinking about snakepit and research priorities:
We need to get a doctrine team. We have an Admiral with doctrine bonuses, but no doctrine team. We also should get a Ship Construction or Ship Design (Cruiser) team, to start getting research done on those topics.

I don't think we ought to blow our entire RP stock on activating every single team: We can only sustain 8-9 topics indefintiely, and activating all the teams we haven't been making use of will just leave us with incomplete techs taunting us.
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Except even if we blow it all we will have 6 left over with an income of 40 or 45 RP per turn which guarantees 5 teams before exploration and random events which can gain us a lot of RP and have in the past between research phases . In addition we have 1 month and 1 quarter until then so we may see some more gains. Still we have time and can see what our totals are then.

Also in general teams needed:
Cruiser Design
Starship Construction
Starbase Construction
Personal Tech
Weapons
One or more doctrine teams depending on how it works.

With doctrines we chose between one of the defensive and one of the three offensive for tactics doctrine. Then there are three fleet design doctrines which are not exclusive, though it would take a long time if we kept on switching between them. So I could see doctrine teams in three ways, one is just teams that have a specialty of doctrine, two a fleet design and fleet tactic specialties or three fleet design, fleet tactic defensive and fleet tactic offensive specialties.
 
I vote that either the next ship class or the next Excelsior be named Aelin after the fallen Amarki admiral. If T'Faer doesn't make it that name also goes on the list.
 
Nix said:
I vote that either the next ship class or the next Excelsior be named Aelin after the fallen Amarki admiral. If T'Faer doesn't make it that name also goes on the list.
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Eh, it's not a good idea to name ships after people too recently dead. You want a cooling off period of at least 20 years so you can make sure the historical record doesn't uncover something controversial about them.
 
AKuz said:
I think it should be given to each individual in the fleet. Sort of a campaign ribbon type thing. The survivors may wear it with pride no matter the uniform and those who died have it passed to thier surviving kin, in recognition that their sacrifices were not in vain.
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A joint award certainly would help solidify the bonds that have been forged here. Bleeding together like this means something. Each polity will likely have their own honors for their own heroes, but this entire adventure was close enough that literally every part was needed.

This isn't just a butterfly to Federation-Romulan relations, it's a hurricane. It'll be interesting to see what kind of status quo comes of this.
 
pheonix89 said:
You forgot we have a +3 from from Heidi Eriksson. So that's +10 per turn on a +1 team, +12 on a +2 team.
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Good point. Though that means we could assign any old +2 team and still get it done in five years, even if it's not their specialty. Though I guess there's value in getting xp for a Doctrine team. If we could eventually get them leveled up to 3 or 4 (seven years of working together to go from 1 to 3) then we could start researching doctrine in four years.

10 + 10 + 10 + 12 + 12 = 1st Doctrine done
12 + 12 + 14 + 14 = 2nd doctrine done
We could have two doctrines done in 9 years and be pretty well positioned. I'd go for Lone Ranger and then Forward Defense.
 
Nix said:
It's pretty inefficient pp wise. We can get the same berths much faster faster for 120 pp instead of 150.
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sebsmith said:
@OneirosTheWriter could you confirm why that choice seems so inefficient? Is it just to early? Is it a free tech team? Is it cheaper (or free) expansion? Or is it something else?
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Personally speaking, I've been running with the assumption that it's because we're founding The Industrial Complex of the Federation. Once it's founded, expansion is nice and cheap.
 
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