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Starfleet Design Bureau

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LunaMoth said:
Of all the star trek movies I have watched, none of the space combat really stuck in my mind, yeah having a ton of torpedo's is plausible. IMO Star Trek is just inconsistent when it comes to small details, see voyagers infinite shuttle/torpedo glitch for an example.
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Voyager would have been funny if they ran out of torpedoes and shuttles by the end of season 1.
 
[X] 2 Impulse Thrusters [Maneuverability: Slow] (Final Cost: A-)

Tank man said:
There's also the added utility of probe launching, even if it's not represented mechanically we know that for as long as Starfleet has had torpedo launchers they've used them to fire off a wide range of probes.
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*exhausted groan* No. Nope. How many frickin times do we have to swat down this ridiculous myth?

In quest, torpedo tubes do not fire probes. Period, dot, finis, the end.

I even went and looked up the WoG for you:
Sayle said:
Torpedoes explode, either when they hit something or when you tell them to. But they don't fire probes.
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Kartr_Kana said:
"Fast" is a misnomer. Impulse speeds in a straight line are traditionally the same, or near enough as to not matter. What we are really talking about is acceleration and agility, which is why in the past it's been referred to as agility and not speed.

If this thing is covering the flanks/rear of a formation, it doesn't really need to be designed to dogfight the way our smaller torpedo boats were. The quest even says we can simply pack on phasers to get the kind of coverage we need to compensate for the lower agility.

So we're not talking about too slow to keep up with the fleet at impulse, we're talking about the agility to make torpedo runs, vs simply giving it enough phasers to hit anything anywhere. And the tradeoff for not being a moderately Agile torpedo boat, is we go up 4 letter grades for production.

1 moderately Agile torpedo boat or 2 phaser hedgehogs?
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How about 1 moderately agile torpedo boat vs 1.1 phaser hedgehog though? Because your comparison is ludicrous. On engine costs alone, it'd be 1.5 but that's far from the only cost. The letter grades are relative affordability for their ship class and role, they're not going to let you pump twice or even 150% as many ships.

Packing on phasers for coverage has costs. We're going to spend as much on weapons but get weaker firepower in our firing arc and less punching power, which has been quite relevant in past wars when using 2nd rate ships against 1st rate ones.
 
thepsyborg said:
No. Nope. How many frickin times do we have to swat down this ridiculous myth?
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Until the end of the quest, because it doesn't make any damned sense in a Star Trek quest given the massive body of work we have access to (in the form of all trek visual media, and likely all of the books too for what they're worth) explicitly telling us they do.

The only reason I can see why it wouldn't be the case here is to allow (and early on, force) for torpedoless science ship designs, since lacking them would have greatly limited their scientific utility.

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thepsyborg said:
I even went and looked up the WoG for you
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Perhaps @Sayle should put it down in an informational threadmark, because as the thread grows in page count there's going to be less and less people who know of it.
 
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Incidentally, regarding this:
landcollector said:
Does Starfleet have the personnel to crew this projected flotilla of Galileo hulls should the dirt cheap option win?
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We're right at the point that Startfleet starts becoming a truly multispecies service. The next couple decades are likely to be the biggest spike in Starfleet's available manpower that it will ever have, as its pool goes from "top smidgen of a percent of 1/6th of the Federation" to "top smidgen of a percent of the entire Federation" in one generation or less.

So yeah, this is the perfect time to rapidly ramp up our number of crewed hulls, assuming we can do so in budget. There will probably never be a better one.
Sayle said:
The clock ticks over to 2201. With a new century comes new evaluations of the past as the Federation looks to the future. Part of that has been the role of Starfleet in general and its vessels in particular. For the former there is increasing interest in transforming Starfleet into a more diverse inter-species service and encouraging participation from other member worlds at Starfleet Academy. Once there are notable non-human commanding officers and the service expands, Starfleet is likely to be a more attractive career path than the member fleets.
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Nyvis said:
How about 1 moderately agile torpedo boat vs 1.1 phaser hedgehog though? Because your comparison is ludicrous. On engine costs alone, it'd be 1.5 but that's far from the only cost. The letter grades are relative affordability for their ship class and role, they're not going to let you pump twice or even 150% as many ships.

Packing on phasers for coverage has costs. We're going to spend as much on weapons but get weaker firepower in our firing arc and less punching power, which has been quite relevant in past wars when using 2nd rate ships against 1st rate ones.
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This is the last phase that adjusts the cost scale according to the Op.
 
Wootius said:
This is the last phase that adjusts the cost scale according to the Op.
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I never claimed otherwise?

When I say phasers have cost, I mean that we don't get extra free ones to throw in to cover for lower mobility. We get the same amount of weapon budget for a less mobile ship, which in practice means less firepower in our firing arc.

In fact, I can argue this because there will not be further cost adjustments. We won't be able to spend more to have the same frontal firepower plus coverage. We'll spend the same amount but spread it our more to compensate for lower mobility.
 
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landcollector said:
Movies say otherwise. In WoK, Enty's warp core is offline and it can still fire Phasers and launch torps at Reliant, Enty E in Insurrection ejects and detonates its warp core and still fires Phasers afterwards. In Nemesis, Enty E spends an entire protracted battle firing off Phasers and literally hundreds of torpedoes after its Warp Core was disabled at the very start.
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Weapons tend to work differently in movies than they do IRL. :V
 
On that topic. Torpedo launchers need antimatter injectors.

It's entirely possible to launch a probe without using antimatter. Hence, while you definitely CAN use a torpedo tube for probes, and designing probes to use torpedo infrastructure is valuable, you can also simply build a less complex and volatile probe launcher.
 
thepsyborg said:
So yeah, this is the perfect time to rapidly ramp up our number of crewed hulls, assuming we can do so in budget. There will probably never be a better one.
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Exactly. We've already pushed one boundary, science/computing, with this design and owing to the providence of the cost savings brought about by reusing the saucer managed to do so at effectively no added cost.

Keeping that cost down here allows us to push an even more important boundary, one which will serve to greatly improve unity and strength (in all fields, not just martial ones) of the Federation.
 
Roaming_Guardian said:
It's entirely possible to launch a probe without using antimatter. Hence, while you definitely CAN use a torpedo tube for probes [...]
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Tank man said:
Until the end of the quest, because it doesn't make any damned sense in a Star Trek quest given the massive body of work we have access to (in the form of all trek visual media, and likely all of the books too for what they're worth) explicitly telling us they do.
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Doesn't matter. Completely irrelevant. You're arguing for torpedoes on a basis that by word of QM explicitly doesn't exist, and advocating other people do so on a basis that doesn't exist, and whether or not it should exist has no relevance whatsoever to what choices are actually optimal, and what rationales for them are actually valid.

I mean, sure, you could be right. I'm not a canon expert. By all means, continue no-you're-wrong'ing the QM, see how far it gets you. But in the meantime, stop voting (and especially stop trying to get other people to vote) according to your delusions. It will not get the results you or they are hoping for.
 
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Tank man said:
Exactly. We've already pushed one boundary, science/computing, with this design and owing to the providence of the cost savings brought about by reusing the saucer managed to do so at effectively no added cost.

Keeping that cost down here allows us to push an even more important boundary, one which will serve to greatly improve unity and strength (in all fields, not just martial ones) of the Federation.
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I think we should keep this ship as cheap as possible tbh. Anything with a low cost has the chance to be this quests Miranda.
 
thepsyborg said:
Doesn't matter. Completely irrelevant. You're arguing for torpedoes on a basis that doesn't exist, and advocating other people do so on a basis that doesn't exist, and whether or not it should exist has no relevance whatsoever to what choices are actually optimal, and what rationales for them are actually valid.

I mean, sure, you could be right. I'm not a canon expert. By all means, continue no-you're-wrong'ing the QM, see how far it gets you. But in the meantime, stop trying to get people to vote according to your delusions. It will not get the results you or they are hoping for.
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A single unthreadmarked post I and likely hundreds of other people glanced over nearly two months ago. With that (and the fact there are literally hundreds of examples of them doing just that in the whole franchise this quest is based off of) in mind it's an entirely logical assumption that they would be capable of launching probes and an entirely illogical one that they wouldn't be.

Hence why I mentioned in one post, that isn't even tied to weapons voting, that they would add utility to the design. I now know this to be wrong, but griped that it doesn't make much sense and that people would have to keep being reminded until the end of the quest because of that.

Apparently that makes me delusional (which implies that I am, in the face of the QMs literally irrefutable post, not going to change my opinion - which is 100% incorrect). Browbeating someone and insulting them will not get the results that you are hoping for.
 
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