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Starfleet Design Bureau

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[X] Tycho City Expansion (+8 Industry)

We are counting individual pennies here and are hamstringing ourselves with how little Industry we have, like we have only built 9 ships so far and 2 classes, both times we've had to directly limit and shorten their lifespan before obsolescence because we didn't have the Industry to fully outfit them with the current technology we have. Let alone the more expensive and costly technology that some people are dead-set on adding. Until we have get enough Industry to fully outfit and design ships with everything we have I see no reason to focus on R&D that will only make doing so even harder.
 
Screw it, changing my mind.
[X] Atomic Torpedoes (Prototype)

Let's give Enterprise some teeth.
 
Kartr_Kana said:
Why would you want to do that? Torpedoes are a flexible option that can do things phasers can't. Like be used as mines, or fly around obstacles, etc.
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It's fun, and it diverges from canon? Honestly the vibe of a phasers-only ship is pretty cool, plus helping a Sci-fi city out feels more trek-like.
 
NavySeel said:
I... seriously doubt that, old fashioned A-bombs have been outdated for a long time, and that's IRL.

Seems more likely to me that Atomic is just the term used for all nuclear weapons by star fleet due to history diverging.
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@Sayle can you confirm this? These are h bomb style nuclear fusion shaped charges, yes? Also called plasma torpedoes? In the generally up to 40 megaton range or so?
 
Kartr_Kana said:
Why would you want to do that? Torpedoes are a flexible option that can do things phasers can't. Like be used as mines, or fly around obstacles, etc.
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... or sensor probes for scientific or tactical purposes...

[X] Atomic Torpedoes (Prototype)

I remember reading some Romulan War era novels (or teasers for these novels, at the end of another novel) from before Enterprise was a twinkle in UPN's eye that involved "Cochrane ships" slinging atomic torpedoes and firing laser cannons at the bad guys.
 
Kartr_Kana said:
Why would you want to do that? Torpedoes are a flexible option that can do things phasers can't. Like be used as mines, or fly around obstacles, etc.
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Because having to support and tech up two entire different weapon systems is double the effort and we're very much playing catch up right now so cutting corners feels necessary to get even.
 
[X] Atomic Torpedoes (Prototype)

LunaMoth said:
It's fun, and it diverges from canon? Honestly the vibe of a phasers-only ship is pretty cool, plus helping a Sci-fi city out feels more trek-like.
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Torpedo tubes are, notably, also used to fire probes.

I do agree that the tech votes should be a little more impactful though. Even if a grav-shear weapon sounds like it should be MORE effective against what I recall as a "graviton" envelope than less. But hey. Setting.
 
[X] Tycho City Expansion (+8 Industry)

I have my doubts about atomic torpedoes as a stopgap measure. Will they even be that effective against shields?
 
I'm pretty sure energy weapon are generally more effective against shields anyway. Even in the TNG era.
 
For a little bit of math, our first ship, the Stingray, cost a whopping 50% of our 40 Industry total, and the Zheng He cost about ~45% of an Industry total of 35. The NX Project is not going to be cheaper than what we've already designed, especially with the new coils and impulse thrusters likely to be thrown in.

That's only two points of data, but it's still us halving and nearly halving our meager Industry with each design we put orders for. We can't really afford to be lax on increasing that amount so early in the game.
 
Jensaarai said:
For a little bit of math, our first ship, the Stingray, cost a whopping 50% of our 40 Industry total, and the Zheng He cost about ~45% of an Industry total of 35. The NX Project is not going to be cheaper than what we've already designed, especially with the new coils and impulse thrusters likely to be thrown in.

That's only two points of data, but it's still us halving and nearly halving our meager Industry with each design we put orders for. We can't really afford to be lax on increasing that amount so early in the game.
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This is true, but at the same time I think the Stingray production run will be done, and while individual NX's will be more expensive we probably won't make quite as many, at least in the first run.
 
Normally, things like lasers are better at burning down shields and any missiles are there to do extra damage to the ship itself. Energy weapons normally are like scalpels and cut things, good for focusing all energy into a shield. For ship damage, a cut into the hull can be sealed off. Explosions from energy weapons are exaggerated in shows as the only things that go boom would be the air and any fuel or plasma(little unless you hit the engines or torp storage). While an explosion tends to radiate all over the place, so shields only have to block a faction of the power. Ships hit with a missile, usually will have it blow up partially or totally inside the ship, thus having more of the energy used in making messy holes that are harder to plug.

So, we need both in a fight.

Plus, I just don't want to get into my usual CIV 4x mistake of too much industry, not enough protection

[X] Atomic Torpedoes (Prototype)
 
NavySeel said:
This is true, but at the same time I think the Stingray production run will be done, and while individual NX's will be more expensive we probably won't make quite as many, at least in the first run.
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True, but if our very first light cruiser costs 20 Industry, what is our flagship going to cost? 30 Industry, 40, 50? @Kartr_Kana's estimate puts it at 30, but that looked to be a pretty minimum-cost design, and I'm not sure there won't be unforeseen prototype costs or upgrades to tempt us to increase the price tag.

And, we're unlikely to ever not have at least one order of ships being built at any one time.
 
Jensaarai said:
For a little bit of math, our first ship, the Stingray, cost a whopping 50% of our 40 Industry total, and the Zheng He cost about ~45% of an Industry total of 35. The NX Project is not going to be cheaper than what we've already designed, especially with the new coils and impulse thrusters likely to be thrown in.

That's only two points of data, but it's still us halving and nearly halving our meager Industry with each design we put orders for. We can't really afford to be lax on increasing that amount so early in the game.
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Problem is we're getting to the point where ENDLESS INDUSTRIAL EXPANSION is coming at the cost of security.

If we had 50-100 years, I'd back the Industry guys, but we don't have that time.
Within 5-10 years, we're going to be dealing with the Xindi other shenanigans.
Within 20, we're at war with the Romulans.

We don't have the lead time to sacrifice build quality for industry.
 
Also, this is just our second Investments vote, so it feels a bit early to be declaring that we're going "endless industrial expansion" IMHO...
 
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