But...
What if we more range? More range is more range. You can range more with it.
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What if we more range? More range is more range. You can range more with it.
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Prospective Miranda cost, assuming middle-of-the-road spending:
Shields: 22.8 (200kt, standard-weight covariant shields at 11.4/100kt)
Hull:6 (Duratanium, 3/100kt) 3
Warp Core: 8 (standard)
Nacelles: 11.5
1 type-3 thruster: 5
8 type-2 phaser 'banks': 24
4 type-1 launchers: 9
Total:86.3 83.3?
All in all, a tidy little ship. But it just goes to show that we can't expect to compete on price - we need to prototype the new armaments which means that if we treat the Miranda's complement/arrangement as our baseline - and even if we cut phaser count by a quarter down to 6 and only upgrade forward tubes to Type-4s - we're still looking at a final cost of 143.5 - i.e. two thirds more expensive. That also leaves us with a slightly lower alpha strike than the Excalibur (102 versus 110), which, while it may not strictly be as necessary for the Fed's intended role, is concerning for a much heavier ship with less ability to pick and choose fights.
Shields: 22.8 (200kt, standard-weight covariant shields at 11.4/100kt)
Hull:
Warp Core: 8 (standard)
Nacelles: 11.5
1 type-3 thruster: 5
8 type-2 phaser 'banks': 24
4 type-1 launchers: 9
Total:
All in all, a tidy little ship. But it just goes to show that we can't expect to compete on price - we need to prototype the new armaments which means that if we treat the Miranda's complement/arrangement as our baseline - and even if we cut phaser count by a quarter down to 6 and only upgrade forward tubes to Type-4s - we're still looking at a final cost of 143.5 - i.e. two thirds more expensive. That also leaves us with a slightly lower alpha strike than the Excalibur (102 versus 110), which, while it may not strictly be as necessary for the Fed's intended role, is concerning for a much heavier ship with less ability to pick and choose fights.
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KlavoHunter
THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!
'more range' is futureproofing for the day when the Federation starts growing again, which is good, but not strictly necessary right now. Especially if it impedes on getting a sufficient level of noncombat functionality to make the ship significantly more useful than a Miranda in more situations...
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Remember: Our upcoming Explorer is going to be even bigger than this ship. Bigger, better, and filled with extra antimatter tanks. Lots of antimatter tanks. So many antimatter tanks.
Isn't that thought relaxing?
Yeah, I'm inclined to spend plenty on armaments - I won't be keen on sacrificing useful module space for them unless we *have to* for prototyping stuff like the Type 4 torpedo tubes, but at the same time we're already guaranteed to be a lot more expensive than the Miranda or Excalibur. So going (reasonably) ham on armament and making a Heavy Cruiser/Battlecruiser that can throw hands with the best the Klingons have on offer and win decisively is my bet. So, no armed rollbar module, but at the same time probably 8+ phaser banks of the newest type, and at least 4 torpedo launchers also of the newest type.
- Location
- Australia
I think we need an antimatter tank large enough we can cross half the Federation once at full burn, not at efficient cruise.
We need to be able to sound the horn of Gondor, and have our shields show up asap, in a straight line flight, no stops for refuelling.
Also, I know they won't, but I wish the Miranda would put some type 4's in their roll bar. Looking at those stats, I'm not giving them great odds against the new Klingon ships. They look like they can at best take a d7 if they are careful.
We need to be able to sound the horn of Gondor, and have our shields show up asap, in a straight line flight, no stops for refuelling.
Also, I know they won't, but I wish the Miranda would put some type 4's in their roll bar. Looking at those stats, I'm not giving them great odds against the new Klingon ships. They look like they can at best take a d7 if they are careful.
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I disagree.
The Excalibur certainly benefited from being able to ignore the Pharos stations during the war, freeing up fuel for shorter-ranged military ships and having ripple effects on Starfleet logistic.
That independence is why losing the stations did not impede Starfleet offensive operations very much
IRL we even fuel nuclear ships for decades at a time, because the less that fuel is an issue, the greater strategic flexibility a design has.
When ships get big enough, I expect that Extra AM tanks is one of those modules that will become standardized, just like Transporters did. The additional endurance and combat capability is such a force multiplier for Starfleet that most non-specialty designs benefit from having them around
In the meantime, people vote for it because its an objectively good choice on most designs
Just like people usually vote for Cargo Space because that too is an objectively good choice on most designs given Starfleet's preferred model of operations
Probably is
Raiding requires endurance, sensors, and either high base speed or stealth; the Federation-class has two of them at least
Question is whether the Federation will have any to spare in the event of conflict
1) The vast majority of civilian ships doing logistics runs are fusion-powered, with warp factors two or more below the military vessels. Facilities, fuel depots, shipyards and space stations are fixed and cant run away.
The Feddie would have no issue reaching either, and its max cruise would allow it outrun most pursuit over any sort of distance
2) We dont get to tell Starfleet how to use a given vessel
The Attenborough was used to patrol for pirates
The Excalibur was designed to be a warship, but spent significant parts of the war wrecking Klingon supply convoys made up of civilian ships, then ended up being used as a cutrate explorer in the 2250s
This ship is going to end up a lot better at the role of raider than the Callie was as explorer
The German battleships of the Second World War were famously feared for their potential as raiders if they broke out into the Atlantic and cut the convoys to the US; which was why Bismarck drew much of the attention of Home Fleet, Tirpitz locked down several capital ships just by sitting in port in Norway, and Scharnhorst was sunk going after Arctic convoys after the Brits broke their codes.
Generally, raiders need at least three things of these five factors for success:
-Long range sensors, their own or those of others, to find their targets
-High approach and disengage speed relative to their targets
-High range/endurance
-Stealth
-Sufficient firepower for the target
If Im burning enemy supply convoys or fuel depots, or scragging an enemy dilithium mining operation, I need much less firepower than I would going after an armed military space station behind belts of defense satellites or an enemy warship going home for repairs/resupply
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Archduke
Don't Take Geology Puns For Granite
- Location
- Texas
I get the feeling the Miranda is gonna be a lot slower that the Federation. It's gonna be a lot less tough as well.
I suspect the Federation's gonna have much better efficient and max cruise, far more survivability, and generally bring more capability. Jury's out on the sprint speed though.
I think the idea is they are not supposed to match the new Klingon ships one to one. They are supposed to staunch the bleeding caused by the Federation losing so many ships. Piracy and disasters that cannot be responded to in time are about to become endemic and will remain endemic until we can fill the hole in our fleet with SOMETHING.
The Miranda is that something. It is a competent something.
But it doesn't need to be able to throw down with the next generation Klingon battle cruiser. It's a capable match vs a rogue D7, and that's all it really needs to be.
It is a step down from an Excalibur, but an Excalibur was an overmatch to the D7. It took 2 to 1 for an even fight.
The Federation is going to be a step up from the Excalibur. Pretty much just as punchy, but without the weaknesses and compromises inherent to us cutting corners on mass to keep the Excalibur easy to make fast. Things like better shields and phaser coverage.
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....But isn't the Federation, at it's heart, an explorer already?
- Location
- Australia
Agreed about not beating the battle cruiser, but I would be a lot more comfortable if it could take a D7 in two out of three falls, rather than a coin flip.
And using old phasers and a few old torpedoes vs the D7's heavy disruptors and plasma torpedoes when both have equal shield score feels more like is two out of three in their favour.
I would be happy enough with two more standard torpedoes in the roll bar? That's a pretty small total cost for something that would give it an edge, and it is iconic of their design.
No. It is too important to send out away from the Federation at the moment. Any exploration it does will need to be close to home. Surveying systems yes. Ranging out into new space, no.
And the Federation is going to ask for a purpose built explorer soon, something we can spend a ton on because they only intend to build like 6 total.
Not...really? The brief says nothing about the possibility of it going off into Unexplored Space.
Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
... I'm Pretty sure, if I'm remembering the numbers right, it can cross half the Federation at max cruise with a fair bit left in the tank even Without extra tanks, though that may depend which axis you're talking about crossing it on. Our current warp set up has pretty darn good baseline range.
Endorfinator
Awkwardly Social
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You're right, but I'm not the one trying to construe a fleet anchor into a raider.
- Location
- Australia
I think raiding isn't worth planning around, because it looked like in the narratives we have read that Starfleet has no real intent to do it.
They seem much more into total crushing invasion if needed, to rescue planets and populations. Methodical. Total. The Federation would be amazing at that though.
The nice thing about this style is that we get dramatic moments when hero units venture out and do their own thing dramatically (While providing maximum drama
)
They seem much more into total crushing invasion if needed, to rescue planets and populations. Methodical. Total. The Federation would be amazing at that though.
The nice thing about this style is that we get dramatic moments when hero units venture out and do their own thing dramatically (While providing maximum drama
)
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A "full fledged explorer" is pretty vaguely defined, and as far as we've seen, Heavy Cruisers do that job pretty fucking well.
KlavoHunter
THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!
Omni-disciplinary science labs to make sense of the strange new worlds they discover would be ideal.
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It is currently 2250. The Archer class will remain in production for another 10 years, and in use for another 20 years after that.
- Location
- United States
I'll probably favor voting for some Diplomacy related modules to go with this. To me it just seems fitting.
Yea
The Klingons brought ~60 cruisers to Andoria: 22x D7s and ~36x D6s in a high-low mix, in addition to 80+ BoP
I suspect whoever is doing warplanning for the Federation is going to want at least as many high-end cruisers as there were D7s at that event, under the assumption that the K'tinga replaces the D7 while the D7 replaces the D6
If its at max fuel maybe; if its down to 80% or 70% fuel in the course of normal duties things change
I THINK that range is measured at efficient cruise, the way the EPA measures the mpg of cars at below 60mph instead of actual highway speeds. If you operate at max cruise things change, nevermind if youre burning AM on torpedos
And our previous fleet anchors were a science ship and an engineering vessel
Starfleet cannot afford many specialty vessel types; a good cruiser will get pressed into whatever roles are necessary
Even the Excalibur was used as a relief ship at Tarsus 4, something it had minimal capacity for
Its not planning aroundI think raiding isn't worth planning around, because it looked like in the narratives we have read that Starfleet has no real intent to do it.
They seem much more into total crushing invasion if needed, to rescue planets and populations. Methodical. Total. The Federation would be amazing at that though.
The nice thing about this style is that we get dramatic moments when hero units venture out and do their own thing dramatically (While providing maximum drama
Its noting that the design decisions that make it good at the role of being the Federation's heavyweight cruiser also work quite well in the solo/small force deepstrike/raiding role
And its worth remembering that longrange hostage rescue was one of the first major missions we had an NX do prior to the Romulan War; UES Challenger rescued the crew of the Bullray from Nausicaan raiders literally as its first mission out of the shipyards
Fastest cruiser in the Federation demands cargo space to move emergency supplies to colonies and outposts
The Archer is a Warp 7 ship; bulk not speed is its forte
Other than that I'd lean balanced science/engineering, even though I'd favor Science