I see no reason why we wouldn't favor the new tech weapons. There's no real incentive to not go with the new Phasers, and Type-IV torps are very affordable.
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Endorfinator
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No, just...no. Using the Federation class as a raider is utterly inappropriate for the design brief and how we've kitted it out. The Excalibur is lean, mean, and fast as hell. The Federation is the fleet anchor, the heavy brusier with a titanium jaw. It's the big stick, not the long arm of the UFP.
Alternatively, the Excalibur is the sword, the Federation the shield.
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Chargone
Invisable operator
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Indeed. Cost may play into number of torpedoes, other factors might see us holding off on one new tech or another, but cost really isn't a valid reason to not take the new tech.
It would, on the other hand, be absolutely the right tool to do a deep strike on hardened facilities like shipyards, where you expect heavy resistance but the value of the strike makes it worth it.
You need a ship that can potentially tank the heavy strikes of station grade phasers while the task group pounds it to scrap with photon torpedoes. The Federation is currently the best ship Starfleet has at that job.
Having the range to get to the middle of enemy space, blow something important up, and then fly all the way home again without needing to refuel has value, especially if you have the deep reserves to spend much of the trip through enemy space at maximum cruise.
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Something to keep in mind is that amongst the ships of Operation Retrieve there was more than a few Excelsior class starships, including the nameship*, the ability to get in at very high speed and out of there at equally high speed for a prolonged period of time was clearly seen as key given how deep into Klingon space the prison complex was.
memory-alpha.fandom.com
Something the Federation will offer in spades.
*and a bunch of non-TOS Connie's, including the Ahwahnee, who has a serial number 48 greater than Excelsior. Hell apparently the Constellation prototype was involved, and she has a lower serial than the Excelsior.
Operation Retrieve
Operation Retrieve was the code name of a mission proposed by Starfleet Colonel West upon the arrest of Captain James T. Kirk and Doctor Leonard McCoy for the assassination of Chancellor Gorkon in 2293. It was devised, in light of increasing tensions between the United Federation of Planets and...
memory-alpha.fandom.com
Something the Federation will offer in spades.
*and a bunch of non-TOS Connie's, including the Ahwahnee, who has a serial number 48 greater than Excelsior. Hell apparently the Constellation prototype was involved, and she has a lower serial than the Excelsior.
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Sprint speed means you can catch ships out of position to strike them when they can't run away.
Maximum Cruise means you can strike facilities when ships are out of position. If you can make a run at a facility and get there before it's defenders can get back into position you can strike it and get out before reinforcements can get there. It doesn't matter if they can see you coming if you can get there before the situation can change.
Sprint is tactical speed
Maximum Cruise is strategic speed
Efficient Cruise is logistical speed.
Maximum Cruise means you can strike facilities when ships are out of position. If you can make a run at a facility and get there before it's defenders can get back into position you can strike it and get out before reinforcements can get there. It doesn't matter if they can see you coming if you can get there before the situation can change.
Sprint is tactical speed
Maximum Cruise is strategic speed
Efficient Cruise is logistical speed.
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darkstarling
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War ships definitely need dedicated counselors, specialized in PTSD
I'm definitely in favor of diplomatic suites. It's already a ship which can respond to a crisis and not worry about terrorist attacks from the local riff raff.
In practice a Diplomatic Suite means nice customizable rooms with guard posts and internal security measures, plus extra nice conference rooms and a high quality kitchen. Good windows. Coincidentally, in time of war this also means it's an excellent command ship for an Admiral.
Synergy with Diplomatic Suites would be an Advanced Communications - more computer power for the translators, more cultural specialists and real language experts. Since this is a warship, we can also give this ship Electronic Warfare capacity using the same facilities. Which, again, is what you need in a fleet anchor ship. Jam the enemy while cutting through their own jamming.
Long Range Sensors seem like a good warship pick, especially a pursuit warship rather than a sprinter. And it means that while its doing its patrols it can find pirate lairs, track civilian shipping, get good observations of the space whales... you know the drill.
Oh we're going to. The consensus seems to be 'build the best cruiser we can and pay what it costs' and - despite what some people are saying - not over-arming this ship for that role is consistent with that goal. Not to mention we chose our saucer specifically for phaser coverage, so we'll be able to afford full coverage with the prototype phasers by way of needing fewer of them.
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
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darkstarling
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Our
San-Fran - Oh shit, the idiots over at BP think they are being sneaky again. Don't they realize their com badge still reads as "BP designer" even if they put it in their pocket. Quick, write down nonsense before they steal all our ideas. Let's convince them we are building some kind of battle orb.
Raiders have to emphasize two things
Burst DPS and speed. The Federation while fast for its size is still far too slow to be a raider, both in sprint speed and in impulse. The Federation is a bruiser, you don't send it to hit and opponent and run, you send it to have a knock down drag out conflict and win.
Base Assaults are not raids.
Yes, but I was pointing out that raids are not the only reason why you would send a ship deep into enemy space.
The canon Miranda loadout, although using standard technology.
So it should 6-7 phasers and 4 tubes. Not a bad little boat.
Strunkriidiisk
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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vrXKlO2Jbw
No prototypes, huh?
Well, I suppose that's in character for them, though I'm not sure why that continues when prototype tech is now only temporarily more expensive. Ah well, I'm sure they're planning on a refit in time for TMP.
Right then, the Fed needs a better armament than the Miranda - not just in technology, but in quantity. If we only match it (or god forbid have fewer mounts) the Federation might as well be dead on arrival. Increased auxiliary capability is not sufficient on its own, though it can help.
@Sayle can I also ask what you think of as the Miranda's canon loadout for auxiliary modules in this era? Memory Alpha indicates sciences and cargo, but it's not clear whether that would be at the same time or separate builds.
Strunkriidiisk
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It had a pair of rear-facing single emitters mounted below the impulse thrusters, so effectively a single array there.
KlavoHunter
THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!
the Chinggis-class... 🤤
Ah, I think I understand you.
Two forward and two aft single-shot photon torpedoes. And whatever the phaser armaments are.
It's just that during the TMP era refit, the photorps migrate from the saucer/hull to the rollbar to find the room to use the new Type-4 photorps, and the main deflector becomes an internal unit in the hull...
Endorfinator
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No prototypes because the Miranda is intended to blot out the stars with its numbers. It's cheap af to produce.
I could see a case for 3/4 arrays per ventral/dorsal side, where we have high but not complete coverage. 75 degree arcs suggest at least some overlap in a 360 degree coverage setup.
They can likely build significant parts of them from battle salvage. Whole torpedo tubes and phaser arrays pulled from wreckage refurbished and mounted in a new hull.
It is my hope that "ideal phaser placement" means Starfleet gets another 15 total degrees of spread from each phaser arrays, meaning we get perfect 360 degree coverage from just 4.
Or that the phasers are perfectly flat along the saucer means that the difference between dorsal and ventral is minimal because both shoot straight out, so we can get 360 degree dorsal and ventral coverage with just 5 phaser arrays.
EDIT - or that we get to use the flat surface running the length of the saucer from the core to the nose to have phaser lances. We have a 100+meter perfectly straight line from the core to the nose to mount something cool.
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I mean she's still going to be pricier than Starfleet has been willing to shell out for before. 37 for the tactical systems alone, she should be roughly 150- 200K in weight with standard shields. She might be 200k, the Canon Miranda was very slightly larger than the base Constitution in total volume iirc.
Which means the Federation at 300K is kind of a fitting size increase.
Let's circle back to that when it comes time for naming, what are some good mythical shield names?
I think Starfleet just had their sticker shock slapped on their face during the Klingon war and will simply be willing to invest in more competent ships going forward.
I still support calling it the Federation class with ships named for Federation Member homeworlds in an attempt to politically maneuver Starfleet into building 20 of them, one per Federation Member homeworld.
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We don't need extra antimatter tanks because we've already paid a premium for greater range. Our 11 deck tall warp core is massive, taking up a ton more space than a standard 7 deck tall core would have. And in exchange we have a seriously great warp 6.8 efficient cruise. Combined with all our Pharos-type starbases, I think that's more than enough range already.