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Function over penny pinching, and listen to the strategic projections! We want to be able to both fight one on one duels and anchor fleet actions, and high max cruise with good maneuver for our size is how you do that.

Also, remember when it comes to weapon discussions - we've already saved on weapons with the command configuration bridge. That minimizes the number of phases we need for coverage.

uju32 said:
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Jan 5, 2025 at 8:05 PM, finished with 349 posts and 124 votes.
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Closest vote Ive seen in a while
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I'm really glad it seems to have switched - for now - to the one I'm in favor of.
 
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Sayle said:
It's a bit ambigious - progressions on the concept? Type-3 could be ditching the andorian supercoolers, Type-4 could be different emission mechanisms, etc. This is about the time, however, that phasers were reclassified into size and/or output brackets. The types 1 through 3 became holdouts, pistols, and rifles respectively.
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My suggestion would be that things like Andorian Imperial Guard phasers and such got a Type designation even though they were never in Starfleet service. Silly stuff like that happens sometimes.
 
Type-1 cricket phaser,
Type-2 phaser pistol,
Type-3 phaser rifle,
Type-4 shuttlecraft phaser,
Type-5 starship phaser.
 
uju32 said:
Certainly their plasma torpedoes work differently from our photon torpedoes
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If they're based off of the romulan ones they're hot and powerful enough to basically boil through a solid iron asteroid and associated base very quickly, and even threaten a shielded ship (iirc) through said shields (a Connie). They could be even more powerful later on.


uju32 said:
One other thing that just occurred to me is that phaser power scales off ship mass
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Using the older phasers you get 24 phaser power for a starship with 300kt mass, assuming that relationship stays the same we'll have 32 phaser power per phaser for the new one.
 
uju32 said:
Type-II Phasers: 8x phasers = 8 x 4 x 0.75 Maturity Discount = 24 points
Type V Phasers: 8x phasers = 8 x 4 x 1.25 Prototype Penalty = 40 points
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One thing to keep in mind is that depending on when the 2nd or maybe even 3rd tranche is built the type 5 could go to standard cost for those. Also damage wise
8 type 2 would be 144 so 6 points per cost.
8 type 5 would be 192 so 4.8 per cost, and 6 per cost if any tranche hits standard. Because of that I would like to do type 5s for phasers, 1st tranche will be more expensive but later ones will be same cost per damage and it helps get the tech to standard and mature quicker to help with later builds.

uju32 said:
Assuming five torpedo launchers, three in front and two behind

2x Type-1 RFL + 3 Type I standard launchers = [2x12] + [3 x 0.75 Maturity Discount] = 30.75
2x Type-1 RFL + 3 Type 4 standard launchers = [2 x 12] + [3 x 4 x 1.25 Prototype Penalty] = 39
5x Type -4 standard launchers = [ 5 x 4 x 1.25 Protoype Penalty] = 25

Options 1 and 2 are salvoes of seven torpedoes forward, two torpedoes aft
Option 3 is a three torpedoe salvo forward, two torpedoes aft
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Type 4 though does the damage of 2 type 1 torpedoes so that makes a difference as well, option three is throwing the equivalent of 6 old torpedoes in the forward salvo. Though it seems the cheaper cost is due in part do to it taking up more space so we cant mount as many or we cut into module space, then again doing the damage of 2 type 1 torpedoes is going to help a lot.

Type1 normal 8 damage per cost for burst
Type1 rapid 4.5 damage per cost for burst goes to 6 damage in 2260 when it matures which would be 2nd or later tranches
Type4 7.2 damage per cost for burst, goes to 9 when it hits standard (currently 2270 but using them on the Federation would drop that).

Looking at things I want to push hard on putting the new weapons in the Federation, hopefully by the time we do the 2nd and later tranches they will be considered standard and it will also help all the additional designs we do by getting them to standard and mature quicker.
 
Tank man said:
Using the older phasers you get 24 phaser power for a starship with 300kt mass, assuming that relationship stays the same we'll have 32 phaser power per phaser for the new one.
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Fuuuuuuuuuck.

Given two phaser shots at a time and the 30 shield rating of the old Bird of PreyD7, I think it is infuriatingly likely that we'll be just barely short of one-salvo'ing the shields of the twice-as-big-and-also-presumably-somewhat-more-advanced B'RelK'Tinga in one salvo.

This vote really was the curse that keeps on giving, ain't it? The eternal fuck-you. The immortal turd. 🔫💩

(The B'RelK'Tinga is probably going to have, like, 70-80 shield rating...but I'm gonna laugh so hard if our phasers do 32 each and it has 65. And also cry so hard.)

Edit: fixed my derp. I was thinking K'Tinga, and we already know that has 50 shields.
 
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Tank man said:
If they're based off of the romulan ones they're hot and powerful enough to basically boil through a solid iron asteroid and associated base very quickly, and even threaten a shielded ship (iirc) through said shields (a Connie). They could be even more powerful later on.
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Given as all the lastgen ships in the warbook appear to only mount a single plasma torpedo launcher?
They are almost certainly much more powerful than our currentgen torpedoes
Especially given as Klingon and Romulan tactics tend to lean towards ambush predation

I dont remember if Klingon BoPs have cloak fields at this point in the timeline though.
Tank man said:
Using the older phasers you get 24 phaser power for a starship with 300kt mass, assuming that relationship stays the same we'll have 32 phaser power per phaser for the new one.
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Assuming two shots at a time?
That would be around eighty percent of the torpedo alpha of the Excalibur
Sick

Either way I expect Andoria, and possibly a bunch more member planets, are going to order their own production runs of this particular boat design when it enters service; this or the Miranda
The War's kinda fresh in memory
 
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uju32 said:
Either way I expect Andoria, and possibly a bunch more member planets, are going to order their own production runs of this particular boat design when it enters service
The War's kinda fresh in memory
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gotta admit, I do kinda like the idea of the Federation-Class becoming the iconic design that comes to signify which of the Federation members are major/core members and which are minor member species...if they can afford a Federation-class for their species homeworld, they get to sit at the big kids' table.

(I mean, I highly doubt there's any legal distinction between major and minor members, but there's definitely a perceived social distinction...and frankly I don't mind a bit if the newer and smaller species' ambition is to someday have their own Federation-class to signify their status as fully-fledged members of...well...the Federation. Able to contribute not just their cultural uniqueness and their brightest youth to Starfleet Academy, but to commit modern, meaningful, Warp-capable force to the defense of themselves and their fellow Federation members in time of need. The class name is just so damn appropriate.)

(Assuming, of course, that it retains said class name upon commissioning.)
Tank man said:
Actually, assuming it goes for a similar shield as it's predecessor it should have about 24 shields.
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it masses literally twice as much though? afaict if it has the same class of shields as its predecessor it'll have 60 shields.
 
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[X] Dual Engines [Cost: 99] (Maneuverability: Maximum) [200% Standard]

Shees! I am not on for a bit and the update drops. Good that i read the thread first fully before posting that shock moment at seeing Central in the lead was unanticipated by me!
 
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The K'tinga has a known 50 shield rating. It's probably using a lighter shield system than the BoPs, given that 6x the shielding of the old BoP would give it 72.

The B'rel (new-style) BoP will probably have something like 30, which is enough to be very concerning on a swarmer. Maybe 24 if they haven't been able to uptech their shields.
 
thepsyborg said:
gotta admit, I do kinda like the idea of the Federation-Class becoming the iconic design that comes to signify which of the Federation members are major/core members and which are minor member species...if they can afford a Federation-class for their species homeworld, they get to sit at the big kids' table.

(I mean, I highly doubt there's any legal distinction between major and minor members, but there's definitely a perceived social distinction...and frankly I don't mind a bit if the newer and smaller species' ambition is to someday have their own Federation-class to signify their status as fully-fledged members of...well...the Federation. Able to contribute not just their cultural uniqueness and their brightest youth to Starfleet Academy, but to commit modern, meaningful, Warp-capable force to the defense of themselves and their fellow Federation members in time of need. The class name is just so damn appropriate.)

(Assuming, of course, that it retains said class name upon commissioning.)
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Based on previous history?
I suspect the Vulcans at least are more likely to commission Excelsior-knockoffs when that project comes to fruition, but they might settle for Federations at the moment. Everyone else though, Feddies or Mirandas

As for naming, yeah
Post-War, there's a certain symbolism in the choice of that name

Candesce said:
The K'tinga has a known 50 shield rating. It's probably using a lighter shield system than the BoPs, given that 6x the shielding of the old BoP would give it 72.

The B'rel (new-style) BoP will probably have something like 30, which is enough to be very concerning on a swarmer. Maybe 24 if they haven't been able to uptech their shields.
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Yeah, its worth remembering that they started with a techbase in advance of ours, and they arent exactly standing still there
Especially with their current military alliance with the Romulans giving both sides research synergies
 
Also while shields scale with mass, they do not do so along a linear line from 0/0. There is a baseline shield value for having shields, then you get a little extra per Kton.

A twice as big ship does not have twice the shields.

Also even just being mostly able to chunk through the shields in a phaser salvo is great. That just means we needed to have winged them with a photon torpedo area blast prior to closing into phaser range.
 
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