Time to reset the timeline again and strangle them in the crib like we did to Yoyodyne after they failed us one too many times.
No it hasn't did you somehow misread the latest update? Starfleet got fucked. loosing that many ships in a few months hurts. So we should totaly build better armed vessels to forestall a repeat of the circumstances that lead to it in the first place.
Thats their fault, I and others repeatedly screamed about underguned/armed vessels and where shouted down because Science/engieering or wathever was more important. This is what that got them!
You know almost a year ago I posted this:
And was told i am wrong and it is not the starfleet way.
Okay, as per Sayle, this is our first Postwar ship after the four year war mauling we are getting. And your grand solution to our underguned and weak fleet is to keep them undergunned and weak? That just means we invite another war in a few years because we still look like an easy target!
That's what we said for like five designs in a row and now here we are. Besides, I don't think we should be relying on standard tubes on any of our designs at this point. We've seen pretty clearly that if a ship doesn't have a rapid tube it's worthless against a D6, and that's not going to change over time.
eh, I feel like we got warning after the Archer, we took our shot with the Excalibur, and now the die is cast and we just get to see how it plays out while we work on the next thing. I'm content so far that the Callies have made a significant, positive difference, and doubtful we could reasonably have expected more from them (though I remain a little surprised by quite how badly we're outnumbered).
Design process gets longer as tech advances; I never really expected wartime builds to be a thing, particularly in a relatively short conflict like the Four Years War- the Earth-Romulan War was over five years (October 2155-November 2160) at a much lower tech level.
...I've rewritten this next bit about ten times because while copying your phrasing is poetically tempting I couldn't figure out how to avoid it being personal attacks/flaming Sayle explicitly stated that:
and unless you're suggesting they outright lied to us then I don't know where you're coming from or how to engage with your reasoning.
I think it's less that and more that every ship was in the same speed neighbourhood as the D7.
Funnily enough I think the fact that they do such basic expected designs would have partially mitigated the effects of our much more impressive but more expensive designs. having only six extra ships every time we've designed to ship might have meant we had that little bit more density to hold back the golden age of piracy.
I think it was less 'a design that would have solved our problems' and more a problematic combination of being much better at expanding then the canon Federation, *and* having a large capability gap given the long development time of Warp 8 drives and their lack of backwards compatibility. Presumably the canon Starfleet was both more mobile with more Warp 8 drives in service at this time, and less dispersed because it had less volume to cover.
I agree, while it pains me, I went to give the current ship all the torpedoes as fast as we can load them vote.
Kinda have to hope some inbetween (or tactical, at least initially) focused bureau pops up after the war. We always tend to go very high best in category, and as you say SanFran always tends to go for 'as expected and no more'/Jack of all trades and master of none, so a bureau to make the Miranda to our Constitution* (to give a comparison we'll all understand) would be rather beneficial to Starfleet.
To be fair, the main factor letting it down was its speed (iirc), which was due to the warp core. If we'd gone for the prime timeline style warp 8 engine, well, it probably wouldn't have been equal to the Excalibur, but I think it'd have done a hell of a lot better than it did.
In hindsight it's somewhat telling that the people that normally go for Mr reliable went for a Rapid Response Cruiser that was damn the costs we need to respond to emergencies.
I feel like this post is somewhat relevant here.
Wow, wait a sec, when did this happen?? Another phaser mechanic update?? Are these getting threadmarked, because if our military technology mechanics keep changing we kinda need to know for voting purposes.
Yeah, this thread's turning into a group psychology study; we don't have a coherent long-term agenda so come up short, then we suddenly react in fear (suboptimal, we missed 3 votes that would've made this ship quite a tough little cookie), now it looks like we might be overcompensating, then we'll go back to having no long-term agenda and our capabilities again become unfocused and come up short. This is a post-war design, I'm all for going heavy armaments, but we've decided against having warp 8 sprint speed or aft phasers, so it doesn't make sense to max out the concentration of armaments budget here. Why oh why can't people come up with a coherent plan?[X] Forward Rapid Launcher (Cost 53 -> 65)
[x] Two Forward Torpedoes (Cost: 53 -> 57.5)
Not sacrificing science on the altar of fear. If you wanted aft dps, you should have voted for the phaser.
Spamming weapons everywhere isn't the answer either. We need more weapons yes, no argument. But we also need something of a coherent plan so that designs with the highest speeds and near our borders etc are mounting the bulk of our best shields and weaponry. Sticking all these weapons on a survey ship will help, sure, but it's not the best place for them. It won't even be released until after the war. It also has sharp limitations on max speed that hamper its ability to participate in front line actions. By the time it's deployed in full on conflict the v4 nacelles or warp 9 drive may be deployed, making it even more obsolescent.
Fun thought: The Klingons probably had no idea about the Excalibur's specifications and capabilities when they decided to start the war. Heck, they may not even have known the Callies exist!
Likewise, I'd known that the Orion's were becoming a problem/we were increasingly coming into contact with them, but the sheer scale of things was a total surprise.
It's a small and slow design (and the better part of 100 years old) produced in somewhat limited numbers and seems to mostly be used around the larger colonies/homeworlds of later members.
Ah so I was right in that it sucked, it likely only caught small time pirates and likely were blown up by serious pirates.
