Starfleet Design Bureau

[X] Forward Rapid Launcher, Two Aft Torpedoes (Cost 53 -> 69.5) [-1 Modules]
Now is not the time to be timid, the production lines can be expanded if needed.
 
I thought it was fairly explicit, if RFL wins there is enough production for them, if it does not win it does not matter. Sayle is not tracking things like how many of X component can be made. If its voted for it can be made in sufficient amounts, end of story.
Anyway, we're a design bureau, not the procurement board. This is literally Not Our Problem.
 
I thought it was fairly explicit, if RFL wins there is enough production for them, if it does not win it does not matter. Sayle is not tracking things like how many of X component can be made. If its voted for it can be made in sufficient amounts, end of story.
Past updates have sent mixed messages about that, but I'm not interested in continuing this since its fruitless. Quests in general have disappointed me enough already this week.
 
[X] Two Forward Torpedoes, Two Aft (Cost: 53 -> 62) [-1 Modules]

Hopefully the Federation council goes I to a consolidation mindset after the war. We need to rebuild and get ships back onto the space lanes after this. Just far, far too few hulls for too much space.
 
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[X] Forward Rapid Launcher, Two Aft Torpedoes (Cost 53 -> 69.5) [-1 Modules]

We haven't actually changed anything since the Excalibur retrospective, so I'm not sure why people are freaking out.
 
Federation Admiralty will likely be sacked if the Federation survives, or quite likely killed in action defending Earth, Vulcan and other member worlds.

Ditto Intelligence for missing the Klingon buildup for a massive attack and the Admiralty not knowing in early critical stages that it was a full on mass assault.

If by some miracle they actually turn things around, history may look at them more favorably.

Only real chance of Federation surviving are if they can roll out enough Excaliburs and escorts for them. Excaliburs have proven they can fight on par with the D7, but are at risk of getting mutual destroyed if their escorts get mulched by D6s and are unable to cover them. Don't know if a Dreadnought is the right call, an anchor would be very helpful but so would more Excaliburs and escorts. Depends on if the Federation moves to Total War footing and economy, which unfortunately is near certain given the Klingons are about to launch assaults into the Federation core worlds. Heavy Escort that can do better vs D6 and D7 could also be something to consider?
Yeah, this. This was a staggering failure of Starfleet intelligence, procurement, and force structure. The only thing that was really competitive with the Klingons here was the Excalibur; the Newtons helped to hold the line but it was the Pharos station that provided critical firepower to make the Newtons actually dish out meaningful damage.

Starfleet needs a way bigger fleet, and it needs to focus on having actual warships over starships that can fight as a secondary role.

So much for a low-cost science ship; this is a warship now. Starfleet won't have ships to spare for science missions for a while after its fleet gets gutted by the Klingons.

[X] Two Forward Torpedoes, Two Aft (Cost: 53 -> 62) [-1 Modules]

A rapid launcher gets three torpedoes per salvo as opposed to two, but at a big jump in cost. Doesn't feel worth it.
 
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[X] Two Forward Torpedoes, Two Aft (Cost: 53 -> 62) [-1 Modules]
[X] Forward Rapid Launcher, Two Aft Torpedoes (Cost 53 -> 69.5) [-1 Modules]

I think we need aft launchers
 
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We haven't actually changed anything since the Excalibur retrospective, so I'm not sure why people are freaking out.
No Excaliburs were explicitly named as lost in the Four Years War, so there was a voting contingent who convinced themselves that that meant a) no Excaliburs were lost in the Four Years War, period, and b) that no losses by the Excalibur-class in turn meant we threw back the initial strike and didn't get severely injured in the process.

Losing almost a third of Starfleet's existing ships in the first year of the war was not within their expectations.
 
[X] Forward Rapid Launcher, Two Aft Torpedoes (Cost 53 -> 69.5) [-1 Modules]
 
No Excaliburs were explicitly named as lost in the Four Years War, so there was a voting contingent who convinced themselves that that meant a) no Excaliburs were lost in the Four Years War, period, and b) that no losses by the Excalibur-class in turn meant we threw back the initial strike and didn't get severely injured in the process.

Losing almost a third of Starfleet's existing ships in the first year of the war was not within their expectations.
Not even the first year, more like the first "4-7 months".

Anyway, recent events have made it crystal clear that, should the Federation survive this in a recognizable state, we can no longer afford to keep the pre-war doctrines. We need a significant sized arm of the overall Fleet to be dedicated to War capabilities for our own continued existence and which needs updated or refit to the most modern tech feasible for the spaceframe every 20-30 years at the longest.
 
Not sacrificing science on the altar of fear. If you wanted aft dps, you should have voted for the phaser. :V
I mean, I knew this would happen. This ship should basically never need to engage something stuck consistently on its tail except at warp*, with its manoeuvrability being so high. Therefore, chase-mount torpedoes.

*or fleet furballs like the ones in the latest update, but those are so anomalous they tend to expose weaknesses you never knew about regardless of preparation.

[X] Two Forward Torpedoes, Two Aft (Cost: 53 -> 62) [-1 Modules]
[X] Forward Rapid Launcher, Two Aft Torpedoes (Cost 53 -> 69.5) [-1 Modules]
 
Considerations for any potential frigates, cruisers and dreadnoughts- In the short term antimatter and range should not be an issue in their design since a lot of fighting will likely be occurring in Federation Space. Yeah.
 
No Excaliburs were explicitly named as lost in the Four Years War, so there was a voting contingent who convinced themselves that that meant a) no Excaliburs were lost in the Four Years War, period, and b) that no losses by the Excalibur-class in turn meant we threw back the initial strike and didn't get severely injured in the process.

Losing almost a third of Starfleet's existing ships in the first year of the war was not within their expectations.

I'm also not sure where people got the idea that the Klingons built 60 D7s or something along those lines that I saw mentioned. "Dozens" means 24+. Although to be fair I kinda expected a Spanish-Elysian War level meltdown so I'm a bit gratified it hasn't gone that far.
 
[X] Forward Rapid Launcher (Cost 53 -> 65)
[X] Forward Rapid Launcher, Two Aft Torpedoes (Cost 53 -> 69.5) [-1 Modules]

First time doing approval voting, but a rapid launcher is mandatory so I'm ensuring my vote goes towards that either way.
 
I think people are being a little over-anxious about the Klingons. Sure they might have a larger fleet than us, but remember that a significant reason we are struggling in the early phases of the war is because the Federation is larger than it was in canon and so our fleet is stretched thin trying to cover all that space. As the Klingons move in and conquer territory, our defensive line shrinks and it becomes easier to concentrate our forces, while the Klingons now need to dedicate forces to pacifying and extracting resources from their newly conquered space. In some ways, each system they capture weakens them in the short term.
Except the Klingons Just destroyed roughly 30% of our fleet and have 4 to five times our numbers. If even half the Klingon fleet came down on us we would fail. The only reason we have a chance is the fact of how fractured they are, and even then if any of them could look at the long game they'd have collapsed on our core worlds for the spoils. The Pharos is our biggest Starbase and it was so outdated in terms of tactical that it was only useful against Bird of Prey at the Battle of Pharos 7. We have nothing that can effectively stop them, and even the Crash built Excaliburs would only act to staunch the bleeding not stop it. We are absurdly lucky the Klingons are incompetent in the art of conquest and as fractious as a herd of cats or else we'd be done



Yeah, this. This was a staggering failure of Starfleet intelligence, procurement, and force structure. The only thing that was really competitive with the Klingons here was the Excalibur; the Newtons helped to hold the line but it was the Pharos station that provided critical firepower to make the Newtons actually dish out meaningful damage.

Starfleet needs a way bigger fleet, and it needs to focus on having actual warships over starships that can fight as a secondary role.

So much for a low-cost science ship; this is a warship now. Starfleet won't have ships to spare for science missions for a while after its fleet gets gutted by the Klingons.

[X] Two Forward Torpedoes, Two Aft (Cost: 53 -> 62) [-1 Modules]

A rapid launcher gets three torpedoes per salvo as opposed to two, but at a big jump in cost. Doesn't feel worth it.

Thing is this ship isn't purpose built for tactical considerations like the Excalibur or the now aging Selachii, even with maximized armament now it wouyld not perform anywhere as well.

[X] Two Forward Torpedoes, Two Aft (Cost: 53 -> 62) [-1 Modules]
 
The problem is that the numbers must be wrong for things to make sense. The numbers as given don't make sense producing a result other than the Federation losing to the Klingons.

This is the point where time agents intervene to correct the timeline and frankly I don't feel that is a satisfying narrative.
Why? Wars arent won by ship statistics, but as much by strategy and logistics. You can have superior ships and still lose because your admirals fuck up, or your intelligence fucks up, or your logistics fucks up.

And its worth noting that we do currently have what looks like the single best ship class at the moment in the Excaliburs, with advantages that can be leveraged to strategic effect.
They just havent been concentrated yet.

For one potential scenario?
Im entirely expecting a couple of Excaliburs to use that 350 light year range and Warp 8.6 speed we designed into them for deepstrikes into the Klingon interior against military-industrial targets and supply lines.

Do to a couple Klingon shipyards and antimatter refineries, even docked ships, what the Romulans tried to do to our shipyards with their Warp 6 ships back during the Second Battle of Sol in 2160.
Important strategic targets had just gone from over a year away at warp to a few months. There was serious concern that the willingness of the Romulans to engage scouting starships meant that a reserve of these new ships had already been assembled behind enemy lines and was ready for deployment. This fear was confirmed at the Second Battle of Sol in April of 2160, when the Thunderchild-class Warspite and a half-dozen Skate-class frigates were forced to launch without their torpedo payloads from the San Francisco fleetyards to assist a pair of Tellarite cruisers with engaging a trio of the new Romulan Birds of Prey, during which the under-construction NX Burya was torpedoed in dock and many of the orbital manufacturing facilities likewise destroyed. While one of the Romulan attackers was disabled and subsequently self-destructed, the other two disengaged at Warp 6 and fled the system. Nowhere was safe.
Send a trio of Excaliburs off to pay the Q'nos shipyards a visit and you cut away a good chunk of ship production while forcing ship redeployments to honor the threat.
And thats just one potential option.

There's all sorts of other options, from Klingon admiralty going for a knockout punch and YOLOing into a nexus of system fortifications and other defenses, to their literally running afoul of astrographic phenomena because they have bad maps of the Federation interior.
 
I'm also not sure where people got the idea that the Klingons built 60 D7s or something along those lines that I saw mentioned. "Dozens" means 24+. Although to be fair I kinda expected a Spanish-Elysian War level meltdown so I'm a bit gratified it hasn't gone that far.
Likely this quote?

With authority restored the Klingon Empire entered a period of renewed shipbuilding, with the D7 being constructed in the dozens to make up the bulk of House Fleets by mass in 2240
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit- Ah ninjaded by GM? So low dozens in the 24+ ship range, not the nightmare dozens in the 40/50/60/70+ ship range?
 
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