Starfleet Design Bureau

When you put it like that it's a shame there's no option for 1x RFL (fore) and 1x torpedo (aft). Kinda be the best of both words.
I think it's only worth considering if it did not take up a module, like two does. Otherwise you may as well pay the extra expense for double the Aft fire power. If it doesn't take a module, I would happily pay for it.
There's also the possibility that one torpedo just doesn't do enough damage now to actually dissuade an attack and chase from the rear, so having a single one is simply not effective.
 
which means that even then the rapid fire launchers may end up reserved for whoever designs them rather than what's primarily a science ship (even if one that's going to be regularly brushing with danger).
We're already at the point where a Darwin will overmatch a Newton, with the update we just had being relatively complementary of the Newton.

The Darwin might not be categorized as a tactical vessel, but the Newton wasn't, either. Do not mistake that for meaning that it isn't one.

When you put it like that it's a shame there's no option for 1x RFL (fore) and 1x torpedo (aft).
It's more-or-less what I'd been hoping for leading into this vote, but single standard launchers are cheap, and we'd probably lose the module anyway, so why not mount the second?
 
In a postwar environment, one where we were losing so badly, I don't think cutting back on weapons will be either appreciated or warrented. Especially if this is the golden age of piracy. Go for the RFL, it'll be worth it.

They always have had a module cost before, it's just that we were not warned about it.
A big part of the debate with the kea class not getting a torpedo was the fact that we thought it might scrape in an extra science module without it.
Being told of the cost on this one is very handy, and it's a great help.

I do sometimes wonder if the last step of the build though would be an optional "change one minor synergy thing in hindsight" but I think it also would be a very very messy vote.

Ah okay.

According to past (future) information we were, but to quote a wise old alien from another franchise:

"Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future."

Our actions have caused butterflies, continuously.

It's true, definitely has.

The unfortunate reality being that the Federation adding more colonies, more resource extraction, more trade compared to OTL...also means adding more space to defend, longer transit times, a more diffused military presence.

It does make sense, we were losing badly and one ship that does very well means now we're simply losing. It was just the sudden change in tone that got me.
 
I don't see why people think we are at fault for this situation at all, like we don't get to decide how many ships are made so it wouldn't have mattered at all if all our recent designs were combat ships the fleet was not really interested in making a lot of them guys.
 
Yeah, at the end of the day "Yeah, the Klingons just shit out an armada of 60-odd D7s in eight years", isn't something we could realistically do much more than just struggle not to completely get pasted against. We're basically a small power going up against a Superpower given that kind of disparity in tech and production capacity. They can simply produce twice the hulls we can, and even our S-Rank tactical cruiser can't reliably win a 2v1.
 
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Well, that account makes for a heck of a temporal ripple in my story. Hard for the Clarent to be at the Battle of Axanar two years after its destruction. The agents will need to go back and account for that.

Otherwise... woof. This is going to be a hell of a war, and a Battle of Axanar sounds like a really terrifying possibility, all told.

It may well turn things around at least
 
... Must resist urge to suggest Romulus gets the Kelvin timeline treatment (god I hate those long eared backstabbing rats... Everytime I swear)

Well... Beyond the F up by the admiralty whom are all getting sacked for incompetence after this (and the I told you so regarding the need for defence satellites) we need to switch to war footing and make sometime Kronos will get massacred by

Tldr: Time to take a page out of mirror terra and make something the kings won't like... At all
 
... Must resist urge to suggest Romulus gets the Kelvin treatment (god I hate those long eared backstabbing rats... Everytime I swear)

Well... Beyond the F up by the admiralty whom are all getting sacked for incompetence after this (and the I told you so regarding the need for defence satellites) we need to switch to war footing and make sometime Kronos will get massacred by
I really think a New Romulian Republic succeeding from the Star Empire with Federation and Klingon backing Ala STO would be an amazing premise, Star Trek Show and Quest. Slightly off topic.
 
Uh we are kinda hard fucked here, we lost near 30% of Starfleet in the opening engagements, including one of our ships that we literally cannot afford to have already lost. So this seems kinda unrecoverable given we physically cannot defend our static assets at all.
 
I suspect that part of the problem is also that Federation ships are expensive, built in small batches and time consuming to build. The Klingons are building dozens of identical cheap designs that all have the same tactical characteristics which enables a commander to pull off some impressive maneuvers without wasting potential keeping up with different classes. Not only do they have economy of scale, they also have an elegance on the battlefield.

On the other hand, that does mean that if the Federation can science a counter to this one design, identify one weak spot, then it applies to the majority of the Klingon fleet.
 
Uh we are kinda hard fucked here, we lost near 30% of Starfleet in the opening engagements, including one of our ships that we literally cannot afford to have already lost. So this seems kinda unrecoverable given we physically cannot defend our static assets at all.
Yeah it definitely hurts. Sliver lining is that Excalibur has definitely proved herself, just needs better support.

We have gigantic shipyards filled with ships including a prior mentioned massive batch of Excaliburs under construction (18 at least I think?). Just a matter of getting them rolled out and ready for battle before we have Klingon fleets in orbrit of the Federation homeworlds. Starfleet already managed a prryric victory with first major counter attack, second major counter attack/defense of the core worlds will be incorporating those hard earned lessons.
 
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Unless QM got bored and goes rocks fall everyone dies or is going super narrative mode (where Kirk and co will need to hard carry the federation) there will probably be option to build stuff to make the war less of a disaster.

That said... Can we PLEASE actually focus on defence this time? Beyond making 1 good ship then forgetting we are about to enter a war? (Still annoyed about the lack of defence option picks because muh science ship)
 
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I'm completely fine with single rapid forward or two forward tubes.

[ ] Forward Rapid Launcher (Cost 53 -> 55)

@Sayle we really need to combine tactical votes, prior votes having massive impact on subsequent votes in the same category feels really bad just because nobody wants to do any forward thinking

(even when you're the person trying to warn everybody else that torpedoes take internal slots and that we should have a rear phaser for aft damage without having to worry about taking up internal space.)
 
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Uh we are kinda hard fucked here, we lost near 30% of Starfleet in the opening engagements, including one of our ships that we literally cannot afford to have already lost. So this seems kinda unrecoverable given we physically cannot defend our static assets at all.
Pretty much. The klingons have this won if they decide to push again into the core worlds and destroy our wartime infrastructure. By the time the new Excaliburs are mostly done the Klingon could have 50+ D7 and 200+ D6 at our doorstep and just roll over them. If they can't win a 3 on 1, something worse isn't possible.



We have gigantic shipyards filled with ships under construction. Just a matter of getting them rolled out and ready for battle before we have Klingon fleets in orbrit of the Federation homeworlds. Starfleet already managed a prryric victory with first major counter attack, second major counter attack/defense of the core worlds will be incorporating those hard earned lessons.
We don't have enough ships to stop them, if a full third of our fleet got dusted and the Klingons outnumber us 3 to 1 or more on every engagement? We don't have enough ships to stop them. Not unless we someone destabilize the Houses in charge of the fleet and they turn on each other and leave us time to build more. Which even then we can't outbuild the Klingons, and every win they get permanently diminishes our ability to keep up. Like they can strike Earth NOW and just got our ability to put up a fight and win. Full stop.
 
Of course, something to consider is that post war Starfleet is probably gonna want a ton of tactical ships, which means that even then the rapid fire launchers may end up reserved for whoever designs them rather than what's primarily a science ship (even if one that's going to be regularly brushing with danger).
Conversely, consistently high demand may result in a build-out of RFL manufacturing capability.

Begin executions of Newton-class Captains on open subspace frequencies for failing to use their High Maneuverability in battle!
Bit late for that, unless you've got some necromancers tucked away somewhere?

So this seems kinda unrecoverable given we physically cannot defend our static assets at all.
If it was unrecoverable, we'd have game-over'd already.
 
The way I see it, we either manage to weaken Duras enough that Mogh (or their would be allies) decide to capitalise on that weakness and effectively end up with a white peace or the Organians intervene earlier (and get a white peace).
 
Pretty much. The klingons have this won if they decide to push again into the core worlds and destroy our wartime infrastructure. By the time the new Excaliburs are mostly done the Klingon could have 50+ D7 and 200+ D6 at our doorstep and just roll over them. If they can't win a 3 on 1, something worse isn't possible.




We don't have enough ships to stop them, if a full third of our fleet got dusted and the Klingons outnumber us 3 to 1 or more on every engagement? We don't have enough ships to stop them. Not unless we someone destabilize the Houses in charge of the fleet and they turn on each other and leave us time to build more. Which even then we can't outbuild the Klingons, and every win they get permanently diminishes our ability to keep up. Like they can strike Earth NOW and just got our ability to put up a fight and win. Full stop.
So, Current Status is "We're pretty much done unless A) Something else notices a weak front elsewhere along the Empire's borders and gets them to break off from curbstomping us, or B) Overconfidence or internal divisions cause significant and prolonged strategic and tactical blunders on the Empire's part.", then?
 
Conversely, consistently high demand may result in a build-out of RFL manufacturing capability.


Bit late for that, unless you've got some necromancers tucked away somewhere?


If it was unrecoverable, we'd have game-over'd already.
The problem is that the numbers must be wrong for things to make sense. The numbers as given don't make sense producing a result other than the Federation losing to the Klingons.

This is the point where time agents intervene to correct the timeline and frankly I don't feel that is a satisfying narrative.
 
I don't recall the 4 Year War stating the Federation was outright destroyed, just that it did not go well. If we can rebound from the atrocities of the Romulians we can do the same with the Klingons using far more advanced ships, logistics and technology then we ever had in that era. Also we have yet to see what an Emergency Total War footing will allow us because the potential war refits, assault frigates, cruisers and dreadnoughts potentially in the works by this thread will likely have the klingons revising their threat assessments if we can get them out.

Big if though.
 
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I don't recall the 4 Year War stating the Federation was outright destroyed, just that it did not go well. If we can rebound from the atrocities of the Romulians we can do the same with the Klingons using far more advanced ships, logistics and technology then we ever had in that era.

You are correct. Prior updates say we recover by 2350ish/in the 2350s.
 
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