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Starfleet Design Bureau

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Ebiris said:
If we're using century old hulls in 2360 it actually means we've done really well!
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Right up until those ships were flying death traps with catastrophically outdated engines, weapons and shields. Watch them get sliced and diced, and Starfleet was so arrogant they still described them as "fine ships". Only slightly less moronic than taking an ironclad up against a modern war destroyer. Insanity.

Starfleet of that time period was incredibly militarily stagnant and incompetent. They really needed and deserved the kick in their complacency that they got.
 
Cold Dust said:
Right up until those ships were flying death traps with catastrophically outdated engines, weapons and shields. Watch them get sliced and diced, and Starfleet was so arrogant they still described them as "fine ships". Only slightly less moronic than taking an ironclad up against a modern war destroyer. Insanity.

Starfleet of that time period was incredibly militarily stagnant and incompetent. They really needed and deserved the kick in their complacency that they got.
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I have bad news for you about all the new TNG-era ships that were also at Wolf 359, including at least two top-of-the-line Nebulas and an Ambassador.
 
slybrarian said:
I have bad news for you about all the new TNG-era ships that were also at Wolf 359, including at least two top-of-the-line Nebulas and an Ambassador.
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Seriously. The lesson of Wolf 359 isn't constamt vigilance and readiness. It's that no matter how smart and stong you are are someone is always stronger and smarter. And if they won't be friends you need to be ready to beat them anyway.
 
[X] Excalibur-class.
[X] Other - Eagle-class
Tweaking the Klingons' noses by going for our own birds of prey probably isn't a good idea but it's funny
 
So our next project i see it going 3 ways:

Light:
the return of the killer arrow.
The SF needs frigates to patrol and escort they need to be punchy to beat birds of prey and other light raiders. Based from the concept of the skate.

Heavy:
Explorer to go behond.
With the Excalibur holding the line and watching the border SF needs that which can range behond.
Heavy explorer 300kt+.

Super Heavy:
Return of the Titans of War.
War with the Klingons is inevitable and SF remembers history instead of waiting until till desperation a new dreadnought design is going to be commissioned now.
The brief is simple has big has possible, tough has possible and has much firepower has possible.
Dreadnought 400kt+.
 
I just want to point out, without affecting our tactical we could have had Botany Chemistry AND Astrometrics with crew comfort from green things.

Ah well. Crew away from home for years exposed to space pollen. Everything will be fine I'm sure. Certainly not an entire genre of fanfiction.
 
Hot co co said:
I personally feel like we did pretty well on this ship, like to me at least we fulfilled our design requirements and even kept the whole warships are half saucers lore but also gave it enough of a science and other boost that it can be used long after the war. Was the salt worth it eh this was gonna be a pain either way we went but in the end I think we did a good mix, people who wanted tactical got there wishes and people who wanted to do science got most of there's.

I do hope we get to design a dreadnought or a war frigate, I want to make another small deadly thing. Or after the war I sorta want to make an very very large explorer and just load it to the brim with science and engineering. Now then let's see what score we get in the end
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warships are half saucers is frustratingly limiting idea personally

thunderchild was full
cygnus was half
the skate family is dagger

just make warships with the shape you like that can fit the bill
 
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Wootius said:
warships are half saucers is dumb

thunderchild was full
cygnus was half
the skate family is dagger

just make warships with the shape you like that can fit the bill
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What half-saucers are good for is making efficient use of mass, not being warships. Frankly, any ship design below max-size saucer should be made as a half-saucer, because that way you can mount the engines externally and have more internal space.
 
Th3Saints said:
Super Heavy:
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This is probably the most likely; a repeat of a Thunderchild-style heavy battleship/dreadnought, since its the only one of the three roles that we don't currently have a ship that can cover.
The current project is already a heavy cruiser and another would be redundant, and we currently have the Saladin and Newton to serve as the equivalents of a frigate/light cruiser.

...That being said, depending if the (name still pending) Excalibur-class is enough to hold the line ship-wise, I could also possibly see us doing a similar project as Project Tower, and creating a new space station to serve as defensive outposts along the borderlands to defend against Klingon raids.
 
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Model DC.14F said:
This is probably the most likely; a repeat of a Thunderchild-style heavy battleship/dreadnought, since its the only one of the three roles that we don't currently have a ship that can cover.
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If it's largely a warship first, then that sounds like a good place to try out a torus-style saucer. We save on weight and materials, and all the weapons will largely be on the 'edges' of the saucer.
 
I didn't pour out a mountain of salt about it, but I'd be remiss if I didn't admit I wanted to build Project Constitution as visually canon as possible while throwing in our timeline's unique characteristics. I wanted to have my Enterprise cake and eat it too. Well...that didn't happen. And honestly?

Sayle said:
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Strunkriidiisk said:
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Look at this little vicious cutie.~ Smol and fierce!~ Compared to its canon counterpart and the D7, at least. I'm going to love it no matter what we name it. Klingons considered the canon Constitution a "Federation Battlecruiser," according to Kruge's crew from Star Trek III. If they thought the canon cruiser was that badass, they're gonna hate this one.
 
StriderInCosmos said:
If it's largely a warship first, then that sounds like a good place to try out a torus-style saucer. We save on weight and materials, and all the weapons will largely be on the 'edges' of the saucer.
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So something like the Kelvin timeline Dreadnought but with more space in the middle and not as insanely big?
In any case, my guess is that our next project assuming the Klingon War kicks off is a light cruiser/heavy frigate to serve as a Selachii replacement.

The Brief for this ship specifically stated that this was essentially the Sagarmatha's replacement in the heavy combatant role so it's likely that with that role fulfilled they'll be looking at procuring a lighter combatant that uses the new Warp 8 Engines.
Sayle said:
With the increasing obsolescence of the Sagarmatha there is a dire need for a heavier line combatant capable of flying the flag in an ever-expanding Federation.
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I've brought it up earlier but I'd say that strapping a deflector and a nacelle or two onto this ship's saucer minus the existing engineering section and calling it a day would probably be sufficient for a light combatant.

To give it some utility you could swap out the facilities in the rear section of the saucer for a cargo and shuttle bay so that you've got a cheap Newton replacement since our current ship's looking like a good Saladin/Sagamartha replacement.
 
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LOLROFL said:
So something like the Kelvin timeline Dreadnought but with more space in the middle and not as insanely big?
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Something kind of like that, yeah, even if it doesn't look like the Vengeance. It's a way to experiment with primary hull forms without tipping off the Temporal Agents because we've got Voyager's spoon-like hull a little over a century early.
 
slybrarian said:
I have bad news for you about all the new TNG-era ships that were also at Wolf 359, including at least two top-of-the-line Nebulas and an Ambassador.
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I wasn't just meaning the Borg, though I didn't express it properly in what I wrote.

The Dominion made chowder out of Mirandas and Excelsiors that the Federation was forced to use for lack of ships, because they'd just stuck with those designs for far longer than was wise and didn't move to replace them with something more modern when they were swimming in time and money.

Even talking TnG-era, they didn't really have any great number of warships; the Galaxy and Nebula-class were powerful, but given their size the amount of military hardware they bore was actually very low. (Somewhat dependent on your canon stream) ships of the TnG era were shockingly stagnant in terms of what military hardware they did mount. Suddenly, after getting their teeth kicked by the Borg, Starfleet was cranking out quantum torpedoes, small ships with burst-fire torpedo launchers, next-gen shields, articulated nacelles, bio-neural computers, pulse phasers and ablative armour. They had the ability, they were just so arrogant and so accustomed to long-term peace they forgot they needed to be ready to protect the Federation.

I guess I'm saying we should be careful to maintain our military technology going forwards. We need up-to-date fighting ships even if we don't anticipate imminent hostilities.

I've said it before, but I'll say it one more time just 'cuz I think it's important; if we get a design that's not actually a warship and is a limited production run, budget permitting it might be worth investing in experimental combat technologies such as light covariant shields etc because that brings the technology forwards, and it doesn't really matter if that part of the design flops. On a warship, it does matter if we go experimental and it flops.
 
Cold Dust said:
I wasn't just meaning the Borg, though I didn't express it properly in what I wrote.

The Dominion made chowder out of Mirandas and Excelsiors that the Federation was forced to use for lack of ships, because they'd just stuck with those designs for far longer than was wise and didn't move to replace them with something more modern when they were swimming in time and money.

Even talking TnG-era, they didn't really have any great number of pocket warships; the Galaxy and Nebula-class were powerful, but given their size the amount of military hardware they bore was actually very low. (Somewhat dependent on your canon stream) ships of the TnG era were shockingly stagnant in terms of what military hardware they did mount. Suddenly, after getting their teeth kicked by the Borg, Starfleet was cranking out quantum torpedoes, small ships with burst-fire torpedo launchers, next-gen shields, articulated nacelles, bio-neural computers, pulse phasers and ablative armour. They had the ability, they were just so arrogant and so accustomed to long-term peace they forgot they needed to be ready to protect the Federation.

I guess I'm saying we should be careful to maintain our military technology going forwards. We need up-to-date fighting ships even if we don't anticipate imminent hostilities.

I've said it before, but I'll say it one more time just 'cuz I think it's important; if we get a design that's not actually a warship and is a limited production run, budget permitting it might be worth investing in experimental combat technologies such as light covariant shields etc because that brings the technology forwards, and it doesn't really matter if that part of the design flops. On a warship, it does matter if we go experimental and it flops.
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It's less that the Federation was arrogant and forgot they needed to protect the Federation - the ships they had at the time were more than sufficient to kick any and all of the Klingons, Romulans, Tholians, Cardassians, Orions et cetera in the nuts and go home for lunch; their military arrogance was the attitude of "We're such a big fish we can back-burner tactical capabilities because nobody is even close to catching up to us."

Witness the D'deridex: a top of the line, brand new warship specifically built to counter the then six decades old Galaxy class... which can only beat a Galaxy two-on-one with Bird of Prey support and the advantage of surprise.

That's the kind of tactical capability gap Starfleet was accustomed to enjoying.

What they forgot was the principle of "there's always a bigger fish."
 
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Cold Dust said:
I wasn't just meaning the Borg, though I didn't express it properly in what I wrote.

The made chowder out of Mirandas and Excelsiors that the Federation was forced to use for lack of ships, because they'd just stuck with those designs for far longer than was wise and didn't move to replace them with something more modern when they were swimming in time and money.

Even talking TnG-era, they didn't really have any great number of warships; the Galaxy and Nebula-class were powerful, but given their size the amount of military hardware they bore was actually very low. (Somewhat dependent on your canon stream) ships of the TnG era were shockingly stagnant in terms of what military hardware they did mount. Suddenly, after getting their teeth kicked by the Borg, Starfleet was cranking out quantum torpedoes, small ships with burst-fire torpedo launchers, next-gen shields, articulated nacelles, bio-neural computers, pulse phasers and ablative armour. They had the ability, they were just so arrogant and so accustomed to long-term peace they forgot they needed to be ready to protect the Federation.

I guess I'm saying we should be careful to maintain our military technology going forwards. We need up-to-date fighting ships even if we don't anticipate imminent hostilities.

I've said it before, but I'll say it one more time just 'cuz I think it's important; if we get a design that's not actually a warship and is a limited production run, budget permitting it might be worth investing in experimental combat technologies such as light covariant shields etc because that brings the technology forwards, and it doesn't really matter if that part of the design flops. On a warship, it does matter if we go experimental and it flops.
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The Dominion was an out of context problem that teleported it in from across the galaxy.

"The Federation should keep a huge supply of warships just in case the something teleports in from the other side of the galaxy" is not the basis for a rational defense policy. The Borg weren't a threat the the Federation could outbuild and the Federation matched the rest of the local (semi-) hostile powers just fine.
 
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Roaming_Guardian said:
Thing is there needs to be a BENEFIT to having that gap in the saucer section.
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The saving in materials and weight, for one. We can have a lighter hull with a greater area for weapons emplacements or other sensor tech, etc. It's better for specialist ships, of course, but as long as you have a good conception of what you're creating, that's not as bad of a thing as one might think.
 
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Mechanis said:
Witness the D'deridex: a top of the line, brand new warship specifically built to counter the then six decades old Galaxy class... which can only beat a Galaxy two-on-one with Bird of Prey support and the advantage of surprise.
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No offense, Mechanis, but the Galaxy-class was not six decades old when the D'deridex was introduced on screen. The Galaxy-class was lauched in the 2360s according to Memory Alpha and the D'deridex's first encouter was in 2364 in the TNG episode: The Neutral Zone, season 1, episode 26.
 
Galaxy-class was also not optimized for combat, it was just insanely overbuilt across the board because the Federation was insanely wealthy and could afford to spend a fortune on their luxury explorers.
 
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